Organisers say Womad will go on, with or without police
11:10am Friday 13th July 2012 in Music
PRICES charged by the police are at the centre of a clash with the organisers of Womad.
The future of the annual event, which attracts crowds of around 30,000, was hanging in the balance last month after Wiltshire Police challenged the Malmesbury event’s licensing agreement.
Festival organisers hit problems when their proposal to take on fewer officers for the family-friendly festival was rejected by police.
Negotiations are ongoing but organisers have now said the show, which runs from July 26 to 29, will go on – with or without the police.
Last year, Womad had 24-hour police cover by 29 officers over the four day event. Womad director Chris Smith said he could afford four trained security guards for the same price the police were charging for one officer.
He said he would prefer some police presence at the festival, but last year’s level of cover was not necessary given the low amount of crime.
“Our suggestion was three officers on site would suffice,” he said. “There were 30 reported crimes last year and £120 worth of drugs recovered – we’re not a hotbed of crime.”
Despite negotiations, a decision has still not been reached on an acceptable level of policing.
A spokesman for Wiltshire Police said: “We have been in meetings with Womad and we continue to exchange information with them in an effort to reach a resolution.”
Comments(28)
itsamess3
says...
6:00pm Sat 14 Jul 12
Dont be a Dick Richard(Ha Ha) they have security or do you still not read the articles?
itsamess3
says...
6:02pm Sat 14 Jul 12
RichardR1
says...
7:51am Sun 15 Jul 12
'“Worry not, no matter what it takes, or how much it costs, WOMAD 2012 will go ahead as safe and secure as it has for the last 30 years and will continue to for the next 30.”
'Last week, as reported in the Gazette & Herald, Wiltshire police challenged the legality of the licence granted for WOMAD after they and the organisers failed to reach an agreement over policing.
It means festival organisers could have to wait until just a week before the festival is scheduled to begin to learn whether their licence has been approved.'
itsamess3
says...
9:05am Sun 15 Jul 12
Perhaps you should read and understand the better information available.
Police by law have to police the area as a duty as that is what they are paid for.
Being greedy this year they insisted they should police the park itself. The licence was granted as always without any objections as there was adequate provision of security.
Secondly womad has consistently seen the lowest levels of crime and covert officers have always been welcomed looking for offenders.
Wilts police raised an objection as they wanted to be paid for the police inside the grounds.
That in my opinon is like police breaking into a house believing a crime has been committed when there was no crime and expecting the owners to pay the police for doing so.
In this case-as practice decrees a 28 consultation period was imposed and then a decision made to increase the policing as requested--as the licence was granted it cannot be revoked until the consultation is completed which is after the event has taken place.
As the police made no objection when the licence was granted they should have no grievance .
RichardR1
says...
9:41am Sun 15 Jul 12
The license is not yet approved, because Womad failed to respond to police objections within the statutory period, hence the police challenging the license, a challenge which will be heard in the next few days prior to the event not after it.
The police first announced this objection on 20th June.
black-rat
says...
4:31pm Sun 15 Jul 12
itsamess3
says...
7:31pm Sun 15 Jul 12
One thing you should be clear about is the licence was approved in 2008 for 4 years and was approved by WCC and the Police Authority.
WOMAD organisers have the responsibility to police the grounds as they have done so.
Police have the responsibility to ensure roads etc are cleared or closed etc.
Greedy police have decided they want to police the grounds and they have no right in law to do so unless a crime has been reported.
As such the police have tried to negotiate a police presence in the grounds which goes against what they agreed in 2008 for 4 years.
The law is therefore very simple -revoking the licence granted would be a clear breach of the law as womad have conformed in its entirety to the terms of the licence.
The decision can only be revoked by the committee of WCC if womad has not conformed to the licence terms and they have.
It is not one of your better skills you use to argue something by misreading newspaper articles-rather than digging out the facts.
As WOMAD have said--the show will go on as they have conformed completely to the licence they still have.
RichardR1
says...
8:58am Mon 16 Jul 12
What I do know however is that Open Air Event Entertainment Licenses last only a year.
'Entertainment's licences are granted for a maximum of one year, are renewable and are always subject to various licensing conditions e.g. days and hours of use, types of entertainment that may be provided, occupant capacities etc. To ensure that these conditions are maintained the Licensing Department regularly inspect licensed premises when in use to determine that all conditions are being complied with and to take any necessary action should this not be the case.' DCMS.
Each event is subject to a Fire Risk assessment which again is required 6 to 8 weeks before each event.
Anyway I am sure The Swindon Advertiser will later this week give us confirmation of the result of the review.
itsamess3
says...
8:00pm Mon 16 Jul 12
Never change do you--all the facts given are in the internet and verifiable.
Obviously you read what suits you rather than the truth--perhaps you should read both sides-or ask WCC to confirm how a licence was granted for 4 years--indeed in this case in 2008 and covering this years do.
Your diversion as to fire risks does you no favours as the organisers have always cooperated fully with all the rules and employ sufficient security staff. It has the enviable record of being both the safest and having the lowest crime rate consistently.
Now the police due to less funding hope to provide officers within the grounds at an extortionate cost which has never been in the terms of the licence--its as simple as that.
The police are legally obliged to manage the roads etc as is their duty-not to act as bully boys to gain a little income and threatening to stop the venue.
Try reading the truth on any of the womads sites rather than half truths.
RichardR1
says...
9:17am Tue 17 Jul 12
The real position is as follows. In 2008 North Wilts Council granted a Premises Licence under the 2003 Licensing Act for the area in front of the Main House extending across the land to the A419 for the exclusive use of said property for the once a year WOMAD Festival.
There were conditions attached to this Premises License (which by the way is not time limited, as reported in some news media), one of which was an agreement to discuss policing requirements and other H&E issues on a yearly basis.
It is the failure of the organisers to successfully conclude these negotiations (albeit they disagreed with what the police were wanting) that led the Police to seek a review of the Premises License, something within their power to do, like any other Premises License.
So as I rightly said the review must take place this week at the latest.
itsamess3
says...
8:41pm Tue 17 Jul 12
From Malmesbury and NWDC websites.
A permanent licence was granted for the festival @ Charlton Park 4 years ago by NWDC allowing a maximum of 45000 people for- Regulated Entertainment-Sale of Alcohol and late night refreshments.
The hearing of an objection by Wilts Police is pencilled in for 23 July.
The licence has not been withdrawn as Womad has conformed to the licence conditions fully as such the council cannot withdraw the licence before the committee has heard both sides.
Malmesbury people have overwhelmingly supported the festival in letters to the committee.
All this information is fully available as stated above and of course the hearing is pencilled in for next week--not this week.
No confusion there.
So where does that say Premise licence?
RichardR1
says...
9:28am Wed 18 Jul 12
8:00pm Mon 16 Jul 12
I have merely pointed out that this licence is a Premises License, not a one off Entertainment License, as you implied.
A Premises License is always subject to compliance with it's legally enforceable conditions failure to comply with is in fact a Criminal Offence.
I also rightly stated the License was subject of review which you have confirmed, although the date appears late considering when the Police first made the application, but no matter it is still before the event, not after as again you stated it would be
itsamess3 says...
9:05am Sun 15 Jul 12
I can clearly see why no one engages with you, you simply make things up, and then pretend you said something different.
RichardR1
says...
10:52am Wed 18 Jul 12
itsamess3
says...
7:56pm Wed 18 Jul 12
MrAngry
says...
9:37pm Wed 18 Jul 12
RichardR1 wrote:Why you would bother to contact WCC just to settle an argument on this website?
I am now in possession of definitive information from WCC over this issue, but I will wait and see what Mr Itasmess changes in his next response.
RichardR1
says...
9:15am Thu 19 Jul 12
As can be observed above he has changed his stance several times, but seeks to blame others for misinformation.
As I said I have the definitive information so have no intention of posting after this.
itsamess3
says...
7:14pm Thu 19 Jul 12
8:58am Mon 16 Jul 12
I have no idea whether the police agreed something for four years, and frankly I doubt you do. Perhaps you could provide your source.
"What I do know however is that Open Air Event Entertainment Licenses last only a year."
itsamess3 says...
8:41pm Tue 17 Jul 12
Bob
From Malmesbury and NWDC websites.
A permanent licence was granted for the festival @ Charlton Park 4 years ago by NWDC allowing a maximum of 45000 people for- Regulated Entertainment-Sale of Alcohol and late night refreshments.
NWDC is a district council under the umbrella of WCC.
As the police this year asked to increase policing in the venue-they have asked for a revue of the licence-seemingly because womad have accepted a small number of police in the arena for the past 3 years they feel their security arrangements are quite adequate as they have an excellent record of very low crime.
Nice to hear you have no further comments to make as perhaps you have taken the time to read what the council granted--and you were arguing it is only a premise licence.
Perhaps Swindon Police will now ask the pubs and clubs around the town to pay for a police presence in their premises as from the reports on these pages crime is rampant in numerous premises.
Would you like to pay for that--or provide your own security?
RichardR1
says...
8:30am Fri 20 Jul 12
The irony of it is that trying to twist and turn as you have has made you look an even bigger fool. Had you stuck to your original claims you would have been nearer the truth.
So this from the WCC Licensing Officer.
1. A time restricted Premises License ( a rare event in itself) was granted in 2008. The reason for this was because the WOMAD organisers at the time had only permission to hold the event for 4 years (this year being the last under the existing license).
2. The license contained the conditions I indicated before, of yearly reviews of the 4 licensing objectives.
3. The police asked for a review of 3 of the 4 objectives, a very rare event again.
4. The review is due on 23/7 with a further day on 25th set aside, just in case.
5. WOMAD could then appeal within 21 days, which effectively means the event could go ahead regardless, unless the Police feel so strongly about this that they go to court and get an injunction.
However on a brighter note the lady from WCC states this:
'Being piggy in the middle I am fairly confident that an agreement can be brokered between the two parties probably at the eleventh hour.'
So there we have it.
RichardR1
says...
8:35am Fri 20 Jul 12
The LA if they adopt the late night levy, will charge the average pub £768/year if they are licensed after 12 midnight (whether they stay open or not), up to a maximum of £4400.
75% of this money goes to the police, and the rub here is that they don't even have to use it to provide extra night time policing.
All in the public domain Mr Itsamess, so start another argument over that.
itsamess3
says...
8:49am Fri 20 Jul 12
7:31pm Sun 15 Jul 12
Richard/Bob
One thing you should be clear about is the licence was approved in 2008 for 4 years and was approved by WCC and the Police Authority.
1. A time restricted Premises License ( a rare event in itself) was granted in 2008. The reason for this was because the WOMAD organisers at the time had only permission to hold the event for 4 years (this year being the last under the existing license).
My original claim--you argued it was yearly.
RichardR1
says...
8:58am Sat 21 Jul 12
This license however is a Premises License a totally different thing, and the only reason it was time restricted was as stated the event only had permission by the Landowner for 4 years.
Finally it was not issued by WCC it was issued by North Wilts.
itsamess3
says...
7:22pm Sat 21 Jul 12
itsamess3 wrote:There it is again--what i said.
RichardR1 says...
8:58am Mon 16 Jul 12
I have no idea whether the police agreed something for four years, and frankly I doubt you do. Perhaps you could provide your source.
"What I do know however is that Open Air Event Entertainment Licenses last only a year."
itsamess3 says...
8:41pm Tue 17 Jul 12
Bob
From Malmesbury and NWDC websites.
A permanent licence was granted for the festival @ Charlton Park 4 years ago by NWDC allowing a maximum of 45000 people for- Regulated Entertainment-Sale of Alcohol and late night refreshments.
NWDC is a district council under the umbrella of WCC.
As the police this year asked to increase policing in the venue-they have asked for a revue of the licence-seemingly because womad have accepted a small number of police in the arena for the past 3 years they feel their security arrangements are quite adequate as they have an excellent record of very low crime.
Nice to hear you have no further comments to make as perhaps you have taken the time to read what the council granted--and you were arguing it is only a premise licence.
Perhaps Swindon Police will now ask the pubs and clubs around the town to pay for a police presence in their premises as from the reports on these pages crime is rampant in numerous premises.
Would you like to pay for that--or provide your own security?
Do not separate out my comments to suit your agenda-do read fully.
itsamess3
says...
7:34pm Sat 21 Jul 12
8:41pm Tue 17 Jul 12
Bob
From Malmesbury and NWDC websites.
A permanent licence was granted for the festival @ Charlton Park 4 years ago by NWDC allowing a maximum of 45000 people for- Regulated Entertainment-Sale of Alcohol and late night refreshments.
NWDC is a district council under the umbrella of WCC
And again NOTE--Regulated Entertainment-Sale of Alcohol and late night refreshment- NOT-Premises licence.
Who do you think knows what they granted--YOU--or NWDC who actually issued that licence?
I believe NWDC.
itsamess3
says...
7:43pm Sat 21 Jul 12
RichardR1
says...
11:22am Sun 22 Jul 12
As for believing, given my information came from WCC's Head of Licensing, I think perhaps she would know, having 24 years experience.
RichardR1
says...
11:24am Sun 22 Jul 12
http://cms.wiltshire
.gov.uk/documents/s4
8940/Report%20for%20
a%20Review%20of%20Wo
mad.pdf
itsamess3
says...
4:17pm Sat 28 Jul 12
As you clearly do not understand the process nor indeed the difference between the licences--nor the relevant law that applies do not bother to make a fool of yourself as a child could see the difference.
There is no point giving links that you clearly do not read fully or understand.
As the council issued a clear warning that the application could be considered vexatious and frivolous the police took the wisest option and withdrew the application for review as they got it wrong--as you did.
The entertainments licence was never challenged the premises licence was which was issued to the company running the alcohol sales as owners of licenced premises--Womad is merely the name of a group of festivals who retain satellite companies to provide security and bar services with the correct registration.
Had you in your haste to prove your superiority bothered to read and digest correct information you could have avoided getting it wrong.
The top and tail being the supply and control of alcohol in law on these occassions has to be a licenced premises holder.
The venue is in a field with proper roads in and out--not in law a premise.
That dear boy is how the law so defines the rules.
Issue resolved as the police got it wrong.
RichardR1 says...
11:25am Fri 13 Jul 12
Do we take it then that the organisers intend to break the law, which would invalidate any insurance.