Shake up to rules for council homes

WITH more than 15,000 people trying to rent a council home in Swindon, actually being handed the keys for a property has turned into quite an exclusive occurrence.

But if council bosses give the green light from a new policy to be adopted at a cabinet meeting then anyone in training, education or employment will be able to jump the queue ahead of those who are not.

Under the new housing allocations policy, which was sent out for public consultation between October 21 to November 15, all those living in Band C homes will also be wiped off the council’s waiting list.

Another shake up of the rules will see people only being offered fixed term tenancies, between five to 10 years compared to the current lifetime contracts.

This is expected to knock the unmanageable figure of approximately 15,000 people waiting for a home down to around 7,000.

But tenants groups are not happy and say this is just the council’s attempt to manipulate the statistics.

Chair of Swindon Tenants Campaign Group Brian Shakespeare said he believed people will stop feeling house proud if they only had fixed terms.

“No one will want to take care of their homes if they think they only have them for a little while,” said Brian, 73.

“And that’s not to mention the impact it could have on children’s schools. Cutting people from Band C is just a way for the council to manipulate the figures. Council housing should be open to everyone. The council needs to start building more homes.”

Cabinet member for public protection, housing and Streetsmart, Richard Hurley, said measures had to be taken to cut numbers on waiting lists to speed things up for people who “really need and deserve” a home.

He said: “This will ensure that tenants will get the very best use of our scarce housing stock.

“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.”

It is also understood that the average time a tenant stays in their council home is between seven to 10 years.

In a council report, it is stated adopting the new allocation will cost the authority around £50,000 to further develop its Choice Based Letting IT systems.

And the number of empty properties is anticipated to increase during the earlier stages.

This is due to the removal of applicants not in a reasonable preference group who would previously have bid for these properties.

The policy will be debated at the council’s Civic Offices on Wednesday at 6pm.

Comments (50)

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6:54am Mon 9 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

""""Chair of Swindon Tenants Campaign Group Brian Shakespeare said he believed people will stop feeling house proud if they only had fixed terms"""""

That says more about the attitudes of the tenants than the system. People have short term private rents and don't moan and complain as council tenants do. Social housing should for most just be a temporary thing anyway as they get back on their feet and fend for themselves, no one apart from the disabled or "vulnerable" should look at social subsidised housing as something they should have or need for life.

If you want something in life then get out there and earn it and that includes children. Fixed term tenancies are a start and then look at reassessing all tenants on an annual basis and if they clearly no longer need state help then stop giving it to them. You don't get child benefit for life, it stops when you no longer have a responsibility for them and no longer need it and why should council housing be any different. Why should the state continue to subsidise your rent when you are perfectly able to provide for yourself as they have started with correctly taking away the bedroom subsidy you don't need.

Social housing should be based on need and nothing else and also more emphasis on helping local people and not wasting it on those who have never contributed anything to this country and in many cases never intend to.

this is a start but not nearly far enough to solve not just the hosing problem but also the lazy expectation culture that makes us the joke of the world.
""""Chair of Swindon Tenants Campaign Group Brian Shakespeare said he believed people will stop feeling house proud if they only had fixed terms""""" That says more about the attitudes of the tenants than the system. People have short term private rents and don't moan and complain as council tenants do. Social housing should for most just be a temporary thing anyway as they get back on their feet and fend for themselves, no one apart from the disabled or "vulnerable" should look at social subsidised housing as something they should have or need for life. If you want something in life then get out there and earn it and that includes children. Fixed term tenancies are a start and then look at reassessing all tenants on an annual basis and if they clearly no longer need state help then stop giving it to them. You don't get child benefit for life, it stops when you no longer have a responsibility for them and no longer need it and why should council housing be any different. Why should the state continue to subsidise your rent when you are perfectly able to provide for yourself as they have started with correctly taking away the bedroom subsidy you don't need. Social housing should be based on need and nothing else and also more emphasis on helping local people and not wasting it on those who have never contributed anything to this country and in many cases never intend to. this is a start but not nearly far enough to solve not just the hosing problem but also the lazy expectation culture that makes us the joke of the world. house on the hill

8:15am Mon 9 Dec 13

swindondad says...

IHMO there does need to be a "root and branch" review of social housing provision to ensure that the help goes to those who need it the most.

Not that I expect the "loony left" to agree just look at Bob Crow the union leader on £145kpa + expenses who refuses to give up his council house, how is he "in need"?
IHMO there does need to be a "root and branch" review of social housing provision to ensure that the help goes to those who need it the most. Not that I expect the "loony left" to agree just look at Bob Crow the union leader on £145kpa + expenses who refuses to give up his council house, how is he "in need"? swindondad

8:30am Mon 9 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

swindondad wrote:
IHMO there does need to be a "root and branch" review of social housing provision to ensure that the help goes to those who need it the most.

Not that I expect the "loony left" to agree just look at Bob Crow the union leader on £145kpa + expenses who refuses to give up his council house, how is he "in need"?
He isnt the only one, there are estimated to be around 60,000 on over £50k a year still in council housing and with no intention of moving from their "subsidised" housing. It must be a need and never a want or a lifestyle choice. That's why these selfish campaigners are so active, because they know they shouldn't be there and are just "house blocking" those in far more need.

The tenants groups say its about "fixing" figures, but if they knew anything about it they would know that at least 10,000 of those on the list have no need of it, they just want cheap housing and would never truly qualify anyway and never should either.
[quote][p][bold]swindondad[/bold] wrote: IHMO there does need to be a "root and branch" review of social housing provision to ensure that the help goes to those who need it the most. Not that I expect the "loony left" to agree just look at Bob Crow the union leader on £145kpa + expenses who refuses to give up his council house, how is he "in need"?[/p][/quote]He isnt the only one, there are estimated to be around 60,000 on over £50k a year still in council housing and with no intention of moving from their "subsidised" housing. It must be a need and never a want or a lifestyle choice. That's why these selfish campaigners are so active, because they know they shouldn't be there and are just "house blocking" those in far more need. The tenants groups say its about "fixing" figures, but if they knew anything about it they would know that at least 10,000 of those on the list have no need of it, they just want cheap housing and would never truly qualify anyway and never should either. house on the hill

10:45am Mon 9 Dec 13

jackdawson says...

Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people. jackdawson

12:11pm Mon 9 Dec 13

jerry59 says...

Fair play to 'jackdawson'. I'm off to where the grass is greener to, and this is my LAST POST, so BYE!
Fair play to 'jackdawson'. I'm off to where the grass is greener to, and this is my LAST POST, so BYE! jerry59

12:21pm Mon 9 Dec 13

ging999 says...

jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
No doubt you'll still find something to moan about. Your new place of residence is welcome to you.
[quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]No doubt you'll still find something to moan about. Your new place of residence is welcome to you. ging999

12:32pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Hmmmf says...

house on the hill wrote:
this is a start but not nearly far enough to solve not just the hosing problem but also the lazy expectation culture that makes us the joke of the world.

We're not the joke of the world, house, we're the destination of choice for anyone with a hand to hold out. It's now official: working Brits are indeed the most 'vulnerable' in society: http://goo.gl/UUxcj3

Possibly because we're paying for everyone else's free ride on the gravy train.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill [/bold] wrote: this is a start but not nearly far enough to solve not just the hosing problem but also the lazy expectation culture that makes us the joke of the world.[/quote] We're not the joke of the world, house, we're the destination of choice for anyone with a hand to hold out. It's now official: working Brits are indeed the most 'vulnerable' in society: http://goo.gl/UUxcj3 Possibly because we're paying for everyone else's free ride on the gravy train. Hmmmf

12:50pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Ringer says...

jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
This is one of the best things I've ever read.
[quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]This is one of the best things I've ever read. Ringer

1:04pm Mon 9 Dec 13

knittynora says...

Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing.
This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages?
The only way is to build more social housing.
Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing. This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages? The only way is to build more social housing. knittynora

1:18pm Mon 9 Dec 13

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

knittynora wrote:
Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing.
This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages?
The only way is to build more social housing.
What crisis, what "ghastly housing situation", I see very few people living on the streets, and certainly not 15,000 so presumably they're living somewhere now?

Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life?

Additionally, how many people that don't even live anywhere near Swindon are allowed on the list? The reality is that in the last 10 years or so the population of Swindon has increased by circa 20%. There has been no investment in infrastructure and no investment in local jobs. Until these issues are resolved there is simply no point in building more social housing. Encouraging more low skilled, low paid potential employees to the town is just not viable as there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is.
[quote][p][bold]knittynora[/bold] wrote: Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing. This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages? The only way is to build more social housing.[/p][/quote]What crisis, what "ghastly housing situation", I see very few people living on the streets, and certainly not 15,000 so presumably they're living somewhere now? Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life? Additionally, how many people that don't even live anywhere near Swindon are allowed on the list? The reality is that in the last 10 years or so the population of Swindon has increased by circa 20%. There has been no investment in infrastructure and no investment in local jobs. Until these issues are resolved there is simply no point in building more social housing. Encouraging more low skilled, low paid potential employees to the town is just not viable as there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

1:27pm Mon 9 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

Hmmmf wrote:
house on the hill wrote:
this is a start but not nearly far enough to solve not just the hosing problem but also the lazy expectation culture that makes us the joke of the world.

We're not the joke of the world, house, we're the destination of choice for anyone with a hand to hold out. It's now official: working Brits are indeed the most 'vulnerable' in society: http://goo.gl/UUxcj3


Possibly because we're paying for everyone else's free ride on the gravy train.
Exactly my point, all the other European countries don't have our problems because they look after their own and are just so happy we are so stupid and soft.
[quote][p][bold]Hmmmf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]house on the hill [/bold] wrote: this is a start but not nearly far enough to solve not just the hosing problem but also the lazy expectation culture that makes us the joke of the world.[/quote] We're not the joke of the world, house, we're the destination of choice for anyone with a hand to hold out. It's now official: working Brits are indeed the most 'vulnerable' in society: http://goo.gl/UUxcj3 Possibly because we're paying for everyone else's free ride on the gravy train.[/p][/quote]Exactly my point, all the other European countries don't have our problems because they look after their own and are just so happy we are so stupid and soft. house on the hill

1:38pm Mon 9 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

"""The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says..
Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life? """

Absolutely spot on. Where is the incentive to work hard if everything is just handed to you on a plate as it is now by this soft society we live in?
If you want something go and work hard for it and stop expecting others to work and provide it for you.

Having spent many years working in social housing around 95% of those evicted were by their own choice, they had enough to pay the rent, they just chose to spend it on other things. I guarantee anyone who went and worked there would see the world very differently very quickly!
"""The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says.. Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life? """ Absolutely spot on. Where is the incentive to work hard if everything is just handed to you on a plate as it is now by this soft society we live in? If you want something go and work hard for it and stop expecting others to work and provide it for you. Having spent many years working in social housing around 95% of those evicted were by their own choice, they had enough to pay the rent, they just chose to spend it on other things. I guarantee anyone who went and worked there would see the world very differently very quickly! house on the hill

1:48pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Ringer says...

I bet old Brian Shakespeare's never paid proper market rate, or a mortgage, for his home in 73 years.

You'd think he might be a bit more grateful, really.
I bet old Brian Shakespeare's never paid proper market rate, or a mortgage, for his home in 73 years. You'd think he might be a bit more grateful, really. Ringer

1:57pm Mon 9 Dec 13

EmmBee says...

jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
...all the while completely ignoring the fact there is no such thing as a "magical bottomless purse"
[quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]...all the while completely ignoring the fact there is no such thing as a "magical bottomless purse" EmmBee

1:58pm Mon 9 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

Ringer wrote:
I bet old Brian Shakespeare's never paid proper market rate, or a mortgage, for his home in 73 years.

You'd think he might be a bit more grateful, really.
from experience, grateful isn't a word council tenants know the meaning of most of them! Just want more and more for less and less. Dont put the rent up but we want a better service seems to be the message. Well in life you get what you pay for, so you want cheap rent you get less of a service. Simples!
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: I bet old Brian Shakespeare's never paid proper market rate, or a mortgage, for his home in 73 years. You'd think he might be a bit more grateful, really.[/p][/quote]from experience, grateful isn't a word council tenants know the meaning of most of them! Just want more and more for less and less. Dont put the rent up but we want a better service seems to be the message. Well in life you get what you pay for, so you want cheap rent you get less of a service. Simples! house on the hill

2:07pm Mon 9 Dec 13

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

EmmBee wrote:
jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
...all the while completely ignoring the fact there is no such thing as a "magical bottomless purse"
Shame really, because if there was, that would definitely be going on my Christmas list to Santa :)
[quote][p][bold]EmmBee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]...all the while completely ignoring the fact there is no such thing as a "magical bottomless purse"[/p][/quote]Shame really, because if there was, that would definitely be going on my Christmas list to Santa :) The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

3:06pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Empty Car Park says...

Ringer wrote:
jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
This is one of the best things I've ever read.
Seriously?
That's one of the best things you've ever read?
Never read a proper book then.
No wonder Swindon is a cultural desert.
If our councillors think that people leaving the town is great reading, I'm glad I'm also about to leave :-)
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]This is one of the best things I've ever read.[/p][/quote]Seriously? That's one of the best things you've ever read? Never read a proper book then. No wonder Swindon is a cultural desert. If our councillors think that people leaving the town is great reading, I'm glad I'm also about to leave :-) Empty Car Park

4:00pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Ringer says...

Empty Car Park wrote:
Ringer wrote:
jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
This is one of the best things I've ever read.
Seriously?
That's one of the best things you've ever read?
Never read a proper book then.
No wonder Swindon is a cultural desert.
If our councillors think that people leaving the town is great reading, I'm glad I'm also about to leave :-)
Yes, everyone else is very pleased about it too.

If only you'd get a move on. Literally.
[quote][p][bold]Empty Car Park[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]This is one of the best things I've ever read.[/p][/quote]Seriously? That's one of the best things you've ever read? Never read a proper book then. No wonder Swindon is a cultural desert. If our councillors think that people leaving the town is great reading, I'm glad I'm also about to leave :-)[/p][/quote]Yes, everyone else is very pleased about it too. If only you'd get a move on. Literally. Ringer

5:10pm Mon 9 Dec 13

knittynora says...

Ringer wrote:
I bet old Brian Shakespeare's never paid proper market rate, or a mortgage, for his home in 73 years.

You'd think he might be a bit more grateful, really.
At least the man has the bottle to comment under his own name rather than hiding behind a pseudonym to make cheap personal comments
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: I bet old Brian Shakespeare's never paid proper market rate, or a mortgage, for his home in 73 years. You'd think he might be a bit more grateful, really.[/p][/quote]At least the man has the bottle to comment under his own name rather than hiding behind a pseudonym to make cheap personal comments knittynora

5:20pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Spurs Fan says...

The Adver comments page on stories like this is the natural home of the right wing bigot. How the hell can someone get away unchallenged in saying "from experience council tenants don't know the meaning of grateful" or I bet old "Brian Shakespere's never paid proper market rent in his life" People post on this page behind a cloak of anonymity and spout their right wing clap trap and prejudice.. The changes SBC want to introduce to the allocations policy do nothing fundamentally to address the current shortfall in social/affordable rents. Just like the government of the day are doing nothing to address the shortage of all tenures of housing, Building new homes for social rent and new low cost homes for first time buyers is the only way to address the housing shortage in the UK. However, this will not happen as too many people are making too much money from private rental buy to lets and a huge part of the economy is propped up on artificially high house price's. BTW I live in a council house and I am extremely grateful.
The Adver comments page on stories like this is the natural home of the right wing bigot. How the hell can someone get away unchallenged in saying "from experience council tenants don't know the meaning of grateful" or I bet old "Brian Shakespere's never paid proper market rent in his life" People post on this page behind a cloak of anonymity and spout their right wing clap trap and prejudice.. The changes SBC want to introduce to the allocations policy do nothing fundamentally to address the current shortfall in social/affordable rents. Just like the government of the day are doing nothing to address the shortage of all tenures of housing, Building new homes for social rent and new low cost homes for first time buyers is the only way to address the housing shortage in the UK. However, this will not happen as too many people are making too much money from private rental buy to lets and a huge part of the economy is propped up on artificially high house price's. BTW I live in a council house and I am extremely grateful. Spurs Fan

5:37pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Empty Car Park says...

Apparently councillor Ollie represents the opinion of "everyone".

My neighbour's actually quite upset that I'm leaving.
As are a number of people that I've taken part in community events with.

Still, Ollie's self important opinion is typical of the blinkered view of many councillors
Apparently councillor Ollie represents the opinion of "everyone". My neighbour's actually quite upset that I'm leaving. As are a number of people that I've taken part in community events with. Still, Ollie's self important opinion is typical of the blinkered view of many councillors Empty Car Park

5:43pm Mon 9 Dec 13

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
The Adver comments page on stories like this is the natural home of the right wing bigot. How the hell can someone get away unchallenged in saying "from experience council tenants don't know the meaning of grateful" or I bet old "Brian Shakespere's never paid proper market rent in his life" People post on this page behind a cloak of anonymity and spout their right wing clap trap and prejudice.. The changes SBC want to introduce to the allocations policy do nothing fundamentally to address the current shortfall in social/affordable rents. Just like the government of the day are doing nothing to address the shortage of all tenures of housing, Building new homes for social rent and new low cost homes for first time buyers is the only way to address the housing shortage in the UK. However, this will not happen as too many people are making too much money from private rental buy to lets and a huge part of the economy is propped up on artificially high house price's. BTW I live in a council house and I am extremely grateful.
I'll ask again - what shortage? I do not see thousands upon thousands of people living on the streets as a result of not having a house to live in so they must be living somewhere. Probably more expensive than a subsidised council house though....
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The Adver comments page on stories like this is the natural home of the right wing bigot. How the hell can someone get away unchallenged in saying "from experience council tenants don't know the meaning of grateful" or I bet old "Brian Shakespere's never paid proper market rent in his life" People post on this page behind a cloak of anonymity and spout their right wing clap trap and prejudice.. The changes SBC want to introduce to the allocations policy do nothing fundamentally to address the current shortfall in social/affordable rents. Just like the government of the day are doing nothing to address the shortage of all tenures of housing, Building new homes for social rent and new low cost homes for first time buyers is the only way to address the housing shortage in the UK. However, this will not happen as too many people are making too much money from private rental buy to lets and a huge part of the economy is propped up on artificially high house price's. BTW I live in a council house and I am extremely grateful.[/p][/quote]I'll ask again - what shortage? I do not see thousands upon thousands of people living on the streets as a result of not having a house to live in so they must be living somewhere. Probably more expensive than a subsidised council house though.... The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

6:33pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Spurs Fan says...

Grumpy Old man, it is not a shortage as in people living in the streets but there are there are 10s of thousands of people nationally, living in Bed and Breakfast who would qualify for a social homes if there were more. There are 10s of 1000s living in expensive private lets be(being paid in full by Housing benefit as are the B and Bs) who would be housed more cheaply in social homes if there were more. It is reckoned that 1 in 4 families of all tenures are living in homes that are overcrowded. Yet no government since the 1970s has addressed the fundamental issue of building more homes for sale or rent. Changes in allocation policy such as those being introduced by SBC in spite of consultation which largely went against the changes are doing nothing to address any of the underlying issues. All the changes will achieve is to remove people from the lists into the under regulated hugely expensive private rental sector.
Grumpy Old man, it is not a shortage as in people living in the streets but there are there are 10s of thousands of people nationally, living in Bed and Breakfast who would qualify for a social homes if there were more. There are 10s of 1000s living in expensive private lets be(being paid in full by Housing benefit as are the B and Bs) who would be housed more cheaply in social homes if there were more. It is reckoned that 1 in 4 families of all tenures are living in homes that are overcrowded. Yet no government since the 1970s has addressed the fundamental issue of building more homes for sale or rent. Changes in allocation policy such as those being introduced by SBC in spite of consultation which largely went against the changes are doing nothing to address any of the underlying issues. All the changes will achieve is to remove people from the lists into the under regulated hugely expensive private rental sector. Spurs Fan

7:02pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Ringer says...

Empty Car Park wrote:
Apparently councillor Ollie represents the opinion of "everyone".

My neighbour's actually quite upset that I'm leaving.
As are a number of people that I've taken part in community events with.

Still, Ollie's self important opinion is typical of the blinkered view of many councillors
Brilliant.

You post that claptrap - puffing yourself up, quite delusionally, as ever - and then have the sheer cheek to pretend that I'm self-important?

Typical I Too nonsense. It'd be nice to think we'd all miss it, but we most certainly won't.

Are you off prior to Christmas, or early next year?
[quote][p][bold]Empty Car Park[/bold] wrote: Apparently councillor Ollie represents the opinion of "everyone". My neighbour's actually quite upset that I'm leaving. As are a number of people that I've taken part in community events with. Still, Ollie's self important opinion is typical of the blinkered view of many councillors[/p][/quote]Brilliant. You post that claptrap - puffing yourself up, quite delusionally, as ever - and then have the sheer cheek to pretend that I'm self-important? Typical I Too nonsense. It'd be nice to think we'd all miss it, but we most certainly won't. Are you off prior to Christmas, or early next year? Ringer

8:57pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Tyran66 says...

jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
Swindon is a very caring town, indeed I care about other people around me - I just don't think I should have to pay for them. Particularly when they can and should pay their own way.

No matter where you go, the grass will never be greener for you and your ilk when you have such a irresponsible, blinkered and self-interested view on life. Your leaving Swindon because their is no subsidised housing? Did you ever ask what it is you contribute to the town and why you should deserve support?

Ask yourself the question, I guarantee you won't like the answer and it will follow you wherever you move, that is unless your attitude changes.
[quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]Swindon is a very caring town, indeed I care about other people around me - I just don't think I should have to pay for them. Particularly when they can and should pay their own way. No matter where you go, the grass will never be greener for you and your ilk when you have such a irresponsible, blinkered and self-interested view on life. Your leaving Swindon because their is no subsidised housing? Did you ever ask what it is you contribute to the town and why you should deserve support? Ask yourself the question, I guarantee you won't like the answer and it will follow you wherever you move, that is unless your attitude changes. Tyran66

12:43am Tue 10 Dec 13

Empty Car Park says...

Ringer wrote:
Empty Car Park wrote:
Apparently councillor Ollie represents the opinion of "everyone".

My neighbour's actually quite upset that I'm leaving.
As are a number of people that I've taken part in community events with.

Still, Ollie's self important opinion is typical of the blinkered view of many councillors
Brilliant.

You post that claptrap - puffing yourself up, quite delusionally, as ever - and then have the sheer cheek to pretend that I'm self-important?

Typical I Too nonsense. It'd be nice to think we'd all miss it, but we most certainly won't.

Are you off prior to Christmas, or early next year?
Makes no difference to you.

I'll still be the same distance from my pc abd still post comments on here.

Only difference is that I'll be living in a much nicer town :-)
[quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Empty Car Park[/bold] wrote: Apparently councillor Ollie represents the opinion of "everyone". My neighbour's actually quite upset that I'm leaving. As are a number of people that I've taken part in community events with. Still, Ollie's self important opinion is typical of the blinkered view of many councillors[/p][/quote]Brilliant. You post that claptrap - puffing yourself up, quite delusionally, as ever - and then have the sheer cheek to pretend that I'm self-important? Typical I Too nonsense. It'd be nice to think we'd all miss it, but we most certainly won't. Are you off prior to Christmas, or early next year?[/p][/quote]Makes no difference to you. I'll still be the same distance from my pc abd still post comments on here. Only difference is that I'll be living in a much nicer town :-) Empty Car Park

6:52am Tue 10 Dec 13

faatmaan says...

people cannot afford to rent or buy on Swindon wages, this has been bubbling up for over 20 years, time to smell the coffee and stop hiding from the problem.
for those who earn large amounts and live in council houses this actually means they actually pay more in real terms then their pees who purchased and are mostly mortgage free.
people cannot afford to rent or buy on Swindon wages, this has been bubbling up for over 20 years, time to smell the coffee and stop hiding from the problem. for those who earn large amounts and live in council houses this actually means they actually pay more in real terms then their pees who purchased and are mostly mortgage free. faatmaan

6:54am Tue 10 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

Tyran66 wrote:
jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
Swindon is a very caring town, indeed I care about other people around me - I just don't think I should have to pay for them. Particularly when they can and should pay their own way.

No matter where you go, the grass will never be greener for you and your ilk when you have such a irresponsible, blinkered and self-interested view on life. Your leaving Swindon because their is no subsidised housing? Did you ever ask what it is you contribute to the town and why you should deserve support?

Ask yourself the question, I guarantee you won't like the answer and it will follow you wherever you move, that is unless your attitude changes.
Really good post, this "expectation" culture where so many think they are special cases and should have life handed to them on a plate is just dragging the country down. If you want something in life then go out earn it. If you want a family then go out and provide for them. If you want a house then work hard and save and prioritise what you want and stop expecting others to work hard and pay for your life.

I have no problem with helping those who truly need help, but I am disgusted by those who are quite capable of helping themselves but for whatever selfish reason they don't think they should have to. Life is about choices and priorities and no one else should be paying for yours but yourself. Very few "deserve" anything, the vast majority work hard and take responsibility for their own lives and for the rest, if you choose not to then you are on your own!
[quote][p][bold]Tyran66[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]Swindon is a very caring town, indeed I care about other people around me - I just don't think I should have to pay for them. Particularly when they can and should pay their own way. No matter where you go, the grass will never be greener for you and your ilk when you have such a irresponsible, blinkered and self-interested view on life. Your leaving Swindon because their is no subsidised housing? Did you ever ask what it is you contribute to the town and why you should deserve support? Ask yourself the question, I guarantee you won't like the answer and it will follow you wherever you move, that is unless your attitude changes.[/p][/quote]Really good post, this "expectation" culture where so many think they are special cases and should have life handed to them on a plate is just dragging the country down. If you want something in life then go out earn it. If you want a family then go out and provide for them. If you want a house then work hard and save and prioritise what you want and stop expecting others to work hard and pay for your life. I have no problem with helping those who truly need help, but I am disgusted by those who are quite capable of helping themselves but for whatever selfish reason they don't think they should have to. Life is about choices and priorities and no one else should be paying for yours but yourself. Very few "deserve" anything, the vast majority work hard and take responsibility for their own lives and for the rest, if you choose not to then you are on your own! house on the hill

7:33am Tue 10 Dec 13

Ringer says...

Empty Car Park wrote:
Ringer wrote:
Empty Car Park wrote:
Apparently councillor Ollie represents the opinion of "everyone".

My neighbour's actually quite upset that I'm leaving.
As are a number of people that I've taken part in community events with.

Still, Ollie's self important opinion is typical of the blinkered view of many councillors
Brilliant.

You post that claptrap - puffing yourself up, quite delusionally, as ever - and then have the sheer cheek to pretend that I'm self-important?

Typical I Too nonsense. It'd be nice to think we'd all miss it, but we most certainly won't.

Are you off prior to Christmas, or early next year?
Makes no difference to you.

I'll still be the same distance from my pc abd still post comments on here.

Only difference is that I'll be living in a much nicer town :-)
Although, it'll become a significantly worse town once you've settled in.
[quote][p][bold]Empty Car Park[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Empty Car Park[/bold] wrote: Apparently councillor Ollie represents the opinion of "everyone". My neighbour's actually quite upset that I'm leaving. As are a number of people that I've taken part in community events with. Still, Ollie's self important opinion is typical of the blinkered view of many councillors[/p][/quote]Brilliant. You post that claptrap - puffing yourself up, quite delusionally, as ever - and then have the sheer cheek to pretend that I'm self-important? Typical I Too nonsense. It'd be nice to think we'd all miss it, but we most certainly won't. Are you off prior to Christmas, or early next year?[/p][/quote]Makes no difference to you. I'll still be the same distance from my pc abd still post comments on here. Only difference is that I'll be living in a much nicer town :-)[/p][/quote]Although, it'll become a significantly worse town once you've settled in. Ringer

8:35am Tue 10 Dec 13

Ringer says...

Tyran66 wrote:
jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
Swindon is a very caring town, indeed I care about other people around me - I just don't think I should have to pay for them. Particularly when they can and should pay their own way.

No matter where you go, the grass will never be greener for you and your ilk when you have such a irresponsible, blinkered and self-interested view on life. Your leaving Swindon because their is no subsidised housing? Did you ever ask what it is you contribute to the town and why you should deserve support?

Ask yourself the question, I guarantee you won't like the answer and it will follow you wherever you move, that is unless your attitude changes.
This is one of the best posts I've read on here in months.

There are plenty of people who could learn a lot from these words... but they'll just b*tch and whine and prattle on about what they're 'entitled' to and nothing will change.

Our misguided (and failed - we know full well we can't afford it) welfare state system has created a large pool of people who genuinely expect everything to be handed to them in return for doing absolutely nothing for it. Worse still, they're always very vocal about demanding even more and claiming they're hard done by.

Those of us who are forced to pay for this abomination are thoroughly sick of it. A change will come, it's inevitable.
[quote][p][bold]Tyran66[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]Swindon is a very caring town, indeed I care about other people around me - I just don't think I should have to pay for them. Particularly when they can and should pay their own way. No matter where you go, the grass will never be greener for you and your ilk when you have such a irresponsible, blinkered and self-interested view on life. Your leaving Swindon because their is no subsidised housing? Did you ever ask what it is you contribute to the town and why you should deserve support? Ask yourself the question, I guarantee you won't like the answer and it will follow you wherever you move, that is unless your attitude changes.[/p][/quote]This is one of the best posts I've read on here in months. There are plenty of people who could learn a lot from these words... but they'll just b*tch and whine and prattle on about what they're 'entitled' to and nothing will change. Our misguided (and failed - we know full well we can't afford it) welfare state system has created a large pool of people who genuinely expect everything to be handed to them in return for doing absolutely nothing for it. Worse still, they're always very vocal about demanding even more and claiming they're hard done by. Those of us who are forced to pay for this abomination are thoroughly sick of it. A change will come, it's inevitable. Ringer

11:03am Tue 10 Dec 13

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Grumpy Old man, it is not a shortage as in people living in the streets but there are there are 10s of thousands of people nationally, living in Bed and Breakfast who would qualify for a social homes if there were more. There are 10s of 1000s living in expensive private lets be(being paid in full by Housing benefit as are the B and Bs) who would be housed more cheaply in social homes if there were more. It is reckoned that 1 in 4 families of all tenures are living in homes that are overcrowded. Yet no government since the 1970s has addressed the fundamental issue of building more homes for sale or rent. Changes in allocation policy such as those being introduced by SBC in spite of consultation which largely went against the changes are doing nothing to address any of the underlying issues. All the changes will achieve is to remove people from the lists into the under regulated hugely expensive private rental sector.
So what you're saying is that building more homes will destroy the incomes of tens of thousands of landlords and B&B owners?

It's not that private rental is hugely expensive - it's that "social" housing is subsidised by the tax payer making it artificially cheap. Those who don't like living in such conditions are quite welcome to improve themselves and pay for their own accommodation rather than expecting the tax payer to subsidise housing for them.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Grumpy Old man, it is not a shortage as in people living in the streets but there are there are 10s of thousands of people nationally, living in Bed and Breakfast who would qualify for a social homes if there were more. There are 10s of 1000s living in expensive private lets be(being paid in full by Housing benefit as are the B and Bs) who would be housed more cheaply in social homes if there were more. It is reckoned that 1 in 4 families of all tenures are living in homes that are overcrowded. Yet no government since the 1970s has addressed the fundamental issue of building more homes for sale or rent. Changes in allocation policy such as those being introduced by SBC in spite of consultation which largely went against the changes are doing nothing to address any of the underlying issues. All the changes will achieve is to remove people from the lists into the under regulated hugely expensive private rental sector.[/p][/quote]So what you're saying is that building more homes will destroy the incomes of tens of thousands of landlords and B&B owners? It's not that private rental is hugely expensive - it's that "social" housing is subsidised by the tax payer making it artificially cheap. Those who don't like living in such conditions are quite welcome to improve themselves and pay for their own accommodation rather than expecting the tax payer to subsidise housing for them. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

11:37am Tue 10 Dec 13

Spurs Fan says...

Grumpy Old Man, you're logic is flawed as it is you as a tax payer that are paying inflated prices for people living in B and B or private rents at full market rate. You are not seeing the bigger picture if you believe that people can just get out of social housing and into private ownership. There are not enough houses to go around even in that sector. People earning above average wages cannot afford deposits in many towns and cities. Please don't give me the right wing **** about giving up the fags and booze as many hundreds of thousands of ordinary decent working families cannot afford to save for a deposit. Grumpy Old Man you're right wing philosophy is a million miles from mine and I do not expect us to agree. However, this story is about SBC fiddling at the margins of housing policy while doing nothing to address the fundamental problems facing thousands of families in this town today. Untrammeled capitalist ideology will do nothing to help the millions of people facing housing problems in the UK today. A national housing strategy that built new homes for sale, rent and social rent might just make a real difference to peoples lives from all backgrounds!
Grumpy Old Man, you're logic is flawed as it is you as a tax payer that are paying inflated prices for people living in B and B or private rents at full market rate. You are not seeing the bigger picture if you believe that people can just get out of social housing and into private ownership. There are not enough houses to go around even in that sector. People earning above average wages cannot afford deposits in many towns and cities. Please don't give me the right wing **** about giving up the fags and booze as many hundreds of thousands of ordinary decent working families cannot afford to save for a deposit. Grumpy Old Man you're right wing philosophy is a million miles from mine and I do not expect us to agree. However, this story is about SBC fiddling at the margins of housing policy while doing nothing to address the fundamental problems facing thousands of families in this town today. Untrammeled capitalist ideology will do nothing to help the millions of people facing housing problems in the UK today. A national housing strategy that built new homes for sale, rent and social rent might just make a real difference to peoples lives from all backgrounds! Spurs Fan

12:18pm Tue 10 Dec 13

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Grumpy Old Man, you're logic is flawed as it is you as a tax payer that are paying inflated prices for people living in B and B or private rents at full market rate. You are not seeing the bigger picture if you believe that people can just get out of social housing and into private ownership. There are not enough houses to go around even in that sector. People earning above average wages cannot afford deposits in many towns and cities. Please don't give me the right wing **** about giving up the fags and booze as many hundreds of thousands of ordinary decent working families cannot afford to save for a deposit. Grumpy Old Man you're right wing philosophy is a million miles from mine and I do not expect us to agree. However, this story is about SBC fiddling at the margins of housing policy while doing nothing to address the fundamental problems facing thousands of families in this town today. Untrammeled capitalist ideology will do nothing to help the millions of people facing housing problems in the UK today. A national housing strategy that built new homes for sale, rent and social rent might just make a real difference to peoples lives from all backgrounds!
I'm glad you realise we won't agree :) My logic is not flawed and I most definitely am not "right wing". I do not think people can "just get out of social housing and into private ownership". I know it's hard. It needs strength, willpower and above all, hard work and personal responsibility.

To build even more housing would require a massive monetary investment in infrastructure that the council, government and country just do not have. Therefore this story is about trying to turn a completely unmanageable list of everyone that decides they'd like subsidised housing at the tax payers expense into a list of those that actually *need* social housing. It would also (I would hope) take into account the many people on the list that actually don't even live in or around Swindon. Surely that's a responsible thing to do?

Finally, no conversation about housing would be complete without a mention of immigration and social breakdown. Housing is in demand because of the number of people now living alone which is greater than ever before, and also we are still letting a net several hundred thousand people into the country every year, all of which need somewhere to live.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Grumpy Old Man, you're logic is flawed as it is you as a tax payer that are paying inflated prices for people living in B and B or private rents at full market rate. You are not seeing the bigger picture if you believe that people can just get out of social housing and into private ownership. There are not enough houses to go around even in that sector. People earning above average wages cannot afford deposits in many towns and cities. Please don't give me the right wing **** about giving up the fags and booze as many hundreds of thousands of ordinary decent working families cannot afford to save for a deposit. Grumpy Old Man you're right wing philosophy is a million miles from mine and I do not expect us to agree. However, this story is about SBC fiddling at the margins of housing policy while doing nothing to address the fundamental problems facing thousands of families in this town today. Untrammeled capitalist ideology will do nothing to help the millions of people facing housing problems in the UK today. A national housing strategy that built new homes for sale, rent and social rent might just make a real difference to peoples lives from all backgrounds![/p][/quote]I'm glad you realise we won't agree :) My logic is not flawed and I most definitely am not "right wing". I do not think people can "just get out of social housing and into private ownership". I know it's hard. It needs strength, willpower and above all, hard work and personal responsibility. To build even more housing would require a massive monetary investment in infrastructure that the council, government and country just do not have. Therefore this story is about trying to turn a completely unmanageable list of everyone that decides they'd like subsidised housing at the tax payers expense into a list of those that actually *need* social housing. It would also (I would hope) take into account the many people on the list that actually don't even live in or around Swindon. Surely that's a responsible thing to do? Finally, no conversation about housing would be complete without a mention of immigration and social breakdown. Housing is in demand because of the number of people now living alone which is greater than ever before, and also we are still letting a net several hundred thousand people into the country every year, all of which need somewhere to live. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

12:55pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Spurs Fan says...

Grumpy Old Man, for some strength willpower etc, may be enough to move them on from social housing. However, for many, many people it will not. Due to right to buy those able and willing have probably snapped up their homes and the money has never been reinvested in building new ones. Therefore those in social housing are now predominately less well of or perhaps vulnerable in one way or another. We could argue all day about investing in new homes of all tenures and never agree. The country invests in HS2 and Trident replacement yet hardly anything can be found for a house building programme. It is about political priority and I doubt if ours would be the same. I would agree that family make up has changed significantly in the last three or four decades and there is a shortage of smaller homes for smaller families or single person families. I don't think that immigration plays large part in the housing waiting list in Swindon. However, if you have figures to prove otherwise I would like to see them. As I have said before a change in allocation policy does nothing to address the underlying problems facing people in Swindon. SBC has consulted on the changes and as far as I am aware those that responded to that consultation were not in favour of the changes proposed. Nevertheless SBC is proceeding to change that policy.
Grumpy Old Man, for some strength willpower etc, may be enough to move them on from social housing. However, for many, many people it will not. Due to right to buy those able and willing have probably snapped up their homes and the money has never been reinvested in building new ones. Therefore those in social housing are now predominately less well of or perhaps vulnerable in one way or another. We could argue all day about investing in new homes of all tenures and never agree. The country invests in HS2 and Trident replacement yet hardly anything can be found for a house building programme. It is about political priority and I doubt if ours would be the same. I would agree that family make up has changed significantly in the last three or four decades and there is a shortage of smaller homes for smaller families or single person families. I don't think that immigration plays large part in the housing waiting list in Swindon. However, if you have figures to prove otherwise I would like to see them. As I have said before a change in allocation policy does nothing to address the underlying problems facing people in Swindon. SBC has consulted on the changes and as far as I am aware those that responded to that consultation were not in favour of the changes proposed. Nevertheless SBC is proceeding to change that policy. Spurs Fan

1:50pm Tue 10 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

I think you will find that those consulted are already in council houses so clearly they don't want change. This doesn't just affect them, it affects everyone, those who will qualify for housing in the future and those who are forced to subsidise it through their taxes. The same stupid way that it was the tenants who decided to vote no and take on the £70million extra debt that could and should have been used to build more houses that you keep saying werent replaced under right to buy (which should also stop now!).

We dont ask those exclusively with children whether they want changes to child benefit so why do we just ask tenants about changes to their subsidies housing policy. They already have one of the best welfare systems there is but still that isnt enough, they want more control, better conditions, more houses, but expect others to pay for it.

Hardly any surprise so many are fed up with the entire welfare state and the expectation culture it has created. If you want something, go and earn it. Only those in true need should be helped. If you cant be bothered to contribute and take responsibility for yourself why should anyone else pay for it!!!
I think you will find that those consulted are already in council houses so clearly they don't want change. This doesn't just affect them, it affects everyone, those who will qualify for housing in the future and those who are forced to subsidise it through their taxes. The same stupid way that it was the tenants who decided to vote no and take on the £70million extra debt that could and should have been used to build more houses that you keep saying werent replaced under right to buy (which should also stop now!). We dont ask those exclusively with children whether they want changes to child benefit so why do we just ask tenants about changes to their subsidies housing policy. They already have one of the best welfare systems there is but still that isnt enough, they want more control, better conditions, more houses, but expect others to pay for it. Hardly any surprise so many are fed up with the entire welfare state and the expectation culture it has created. If you want something, go and earn it. Only those in true need should be helped. If you cant be bothered to contribute and take responsibility for yourself why should anyone else pay for it!!! house on the hill

2:10pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Spurs Fan says...

House on the Hill, the consultation on allocations policy was open to anyone so your argument does not stand up on that aspect alone. I would agree that most who bothered to get involved with the consultation were current or prospective tenants. There is a thread running through many of the comments on this page that goes along the lines of people on benefits should take responsibility for themselves and get on, I am paraphrasing. However nearly 60% of housing benefit is paid to those who work and in many cases to families where both parents work! The welfare state so many people on pages like this moan about props up an economy that is based on major companies paying less than living wages. The national housing shortage creates artificially high house prices that benefit older people who bought into the market years ago or older renters who have had homes for years. The young person in work or not has no real chance of accessing what many have taken for granted for years. In today's Independent a report states that a whole generation of people under thirty have no chance of home ownership or social renting as both sectors are broken. 310 people a day are applying for Housing Benefit in the private sector everyday because their wages are falling ever further behind their rents. To bang on about an expectation culture or strivers and shirkers as this government would say misses the fundamental point that every government since Maggie Thatchers' has ignored the problems in housing that now confront us all.
House on the Hill, the consultation on allocations policy was open to anyone so your argument does not stand up on that aspect alone. I would agree that most who bothered to get involved with the consultation were current or prospective tenants. There is a thread running through many of the comments on this page that goes along the lines of people on benefits should take responsibility for themselves and get on, I am paraphrasing. However nearly 60% of housing benefit is paid to those who work and in many cases to families where both parents work! The welfare state so many people on pages like this moan about props up an economy that is based on major companies paying less than living wages. The national housing shortage creates artificially high house prices that benefit older people who bought into the market years ago or older renters who have had homes for years. The young person in work or not has no real chance of accessing what many have taken for granted for years. In today's Independent a report states that a whole generation of people under thirty have no chance of home ownership or social renting as both sectors are broken. 310 people a day are applying for Housing Benefit in the private sector everyday because their wages are falling ever further behind their rents. To bang on about an expectation culture or strivers and shirkers as this government would say misses the fundamental point that every government since Maggie Thatchers' has ignored the problems in housing that now confront us all. Spurs Fan

2:12pm Tue 10 Dec 13

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Grumpy Old Man, for some strength willpower etc, may be enough to move them on from social housing. However, for many, many people it will not. Due to right to buy those able and willing have probably snapped up their homes and the money has never been reinvested in building new ones. Therefore those in social housing are now predominately less well of or perhaps vulnerable in one way or another. We could argue all day about investing in new homes of all tenures and never agree. The country invests in HS2 and Trident replacement yet hardly anything can be found for a house building programme. It is about political priority and I doubt if ours would be the same. I would agree that family make up has changed significantly in the last three or four decades and there is a shortage of smaller homes for smaller families or single person families. I don't think that immigration plays large part in the housing waiting list in Swindon. However, if you have figures to prove otherwise I would like to see them. As I have said before a change in allocation policy does nothing to address the underlying problems facing people in Swindon. SBC has consulted on the changes and as far as I am aware those that responded to that consultation were not in favour of the changes proposed. Nevertheless SBC is proceeding to change that policy.
Well, it sounds like we agree on one thing - that HS2 is a white elephant!
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Grumpy Old Man, for some strength willpower etc, may be enough to move them on from social housing. However, for many, many people it will not. Due to right to buy those able and willing have probably snapped up their homes and the money has never been reinvested in building new ones. Therefore those in social housing are now predominately less well of or perhaps vulnerable in one way or another. We could argue all day about investing in new homes of all tenures and never agree. The country invests in HS2 and Trident replacement yet hardly anything can be found for a house building programme. It is about political priority and I doubt if ours would be the same. I would agree that family make up has changed significantly in the last three or four decades and there is a shortage of smaller homes for smaller families or single person families. I don't think that immigration plays large part in the housing waiting list in Swindon. However, if you have figures to prove otherwise I would like to see them. As I have said before a change in allocation policy does nothing to address the underlying problems facing people in Swindon. SBC has consulted on the changes and as far as I am aware those that responded to that consultation were not in favour of the changes proposed. Nevertheless SBC is proceeding to change that policy.[/p][/quote]Well, it sounds like we agree on one thing - that HS2 is a white elephant! The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

7:23pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Tyran66 says...

@Spurs fan. The "living wage" is a purely socialist construct, it is artificial in concept and application and panda's to the masses. Major companies pay people what they are worth according to the laws of economics - not an artificially low rate. If anything this rate is artificially inflate by the minimum wage.

Unfortunately "relative social worth" (distinctly separate from necessity) is something large sections (the less valuable) in society are not willing or able to accept. Like it or not, in reality and away from the influence of left wing politics - a doctor is more valuable to society than bus driver. Something clearly reflected by their respective salaries.

The great thing about our society is that it is possible for any individual to improve their own social worth -for free - via education / retraining. This opportunity simply does not exist in many parts of the world and it what is part of what makes Britain great.

This advancement does however require a huge amount of willpower, time and dedication. Something I would always be happy to pay for and support via general taxation.

The people however that have no desire to improve or better society should not be subsidised in any respect, including housing. They should examine their self worth and surroundings. They can always opt to self improve or accept the reality they have created for themselves. The only exception to this should be the disabled and truly vulnerable.
@Spurs fan. The "living wage" is a purely socialist construct, it is artificial in concept and application and panda's to the masses. Major companies pay people what they are worth according to the laws of economics - not an artificially low rate. If anything this rate is artificially inflate by the minimum wage. Unfortunately "relative social worth" (distinctly separate from necessity) is something large sections (the less valuable) in society are not willing or able to accept. Like it or not, in reality and away from the influence of left wing politics - a doctor is more valuable to society than bus driver. Something clearly reflected by their respective salaries. The great thing about our society is that it is possible for any individual to improve their own social worth -for free - via education / retraining. This opportunity simply does not exist in many parts of the world and it what is part of what makes Britain great. This advancement does however require a huge amount of willpower, time and dedication. Something I would always be happy to pay for and support via general taxation. The people however that have no desire to improve or better society should not be subsidised in any respect, including housing. They should examine their self worth and surroundings. They can always opt to self improve or accept the reality they have created for themselves. The only exception to this should be the disabled and truly vulnerable. Tyran66

9:45pm Tue 10 Dec 13

house on the hill says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
House on the Hill, the consultation on allocations policy was open to anyone so your argument does not stand up on that aspect alone. I would agree that most who bothered to get involved with the consultation were current or prospective tenants. There is a thread running through many of the comments on this page that goes along the lines of people on benefits should take responsibility for themselves and get on, I am paraphrasing. However nearly 60% of housing benefit is paid to those who work and in many cases to families where both parents work! The welfare state so many people on pages like this moan about props up an economy that is based on major companies paying less than living wages. The national housing shortage creates artificially high house prices that benefit older people who bought into the market years ago or older renters who have had homes for years. The young person in work or not has no real chance of accessing what many have taken for granted for years. In today's Independent a report states that a whole generation of people under thirty have no chance of home ownership or social renting as both sectors are broken. 310 people a day are applying for Housing Benefit in the private sector everyday because their wages are falling ever further behind their rents. To bang on about an expectation culture or strivers and shirkers as this government would say misses the fundamental point that every government since Maggie Thatchers' has ignored the problems in housing that now confront us all.
I think you have actually made my point for me. what you are saying is that everyone expects to get a house and benefits to help them pay for it. Stop blaming successive Govts for things you do have certain control over. So how come some young people manage to work and save and buy their own homes and others who work, sometimes earning more money don't? I have seen that in my own work place. One young couple who got second jobs and now have a nice house and car and another couple out every weekend pi55ing it up against a wall moaning about the damp in their 1 bed rented flat despite being on the same money!

Life is what you make it and as usual for many its never their fault and conveniently find someone else to blame for their own shortcomings. Yes the world has changed but it is the people who don't seem to be changing to cope with it. Any improvement wont happen anytime soon se we need to adapt to our surroundings instead of sitting there thinking of more and more excuses. I am sorry but a lot of young people do have access to their own home if they want it, they just choose to spend their money on other things and yes that's their choice, but having made that choice they need to stop moaning about it! Take responsibility for your life and that includes having children, but why bother with this soft welfare state society that picks up the pieces every time you fall over. Imagine what the country would be like if everyone thought as you do, it would just collapse.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: House on the Hill, the consultation on allocations policy was open to anyone so your argument does not stand up on that aspect alone. I would agree that most who bothered to get involved with the consultation were current or prospective tenants. There is a thread running through many of the comments on this page that goes along the lines of people on benefits should take responsibility for themselves and get on, I am paraphrasing. However nearly 60% of housing benefit is paid to those who work and in many cases to families where both parents work! The welfare state so many people on pages like this moan about props up an economy that is based on major companies paying less than living wages. The national housing shortage creates artificially high house prices that benefit older people who bought into the market years ago or older renters who have had homes for years. The young person in work or not has no real chance of accessing what many have taken for granted for years. In today's Independent a report states that a whole generation of people under thirty have no chance of home ownership or social renting as both sectors are broken. 310 people a day are applying for Housing Benefit in the private sector everyday because their wages are falling ever further behind their rents. To bang on about an expectation culture or strivers and shirkers as this government would say misses the fundamental point that every government since Maggie Thatchers' has ignored the problems in housing that now confront us all.[/p][/quote]I think you have actually made my point for me. what you are saying is that everyone expects to get a house and benefits to help them pay for it. Stop blaming successive Govts for things you do have certain control over. So how come some young people manage to work and save and buy their own homes and others who work, sometimes earning more money don't? I have seen that in my own work place. One young couple who got second jobs and now have a nice house and car and another couple out every weekend pi55ing it up against a wall moaning about the damp in their 1 bed rented flat despite being on the same money! Life is what you make it and as usual for many its never their fault and conveniently find someone else to blame for their own shortcomings. Yes the world has changed but it is the people who don't seem to be changing to cope with it. Any improvement wont happen anytime soon se we need to adapt to our surroundings instead of sitting there thinking of more and more excuses. I am sorry but a lot of young people do have access to their own home if they want it, they just choose to spend their money on other things and yes that's their choice, but having made that choice they need to stop moaning about it! Take responsibility for your life and that includes having children, but why bother with this soft welfare state society that picks up the pieces every time you fall over. Imagine what the country would be like if everyone thought as you do, it would just collapse. house on the hill

10:41pm Tue 10 Dec 13

lisers says...

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
knittynora wrote:
Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing.
This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages?
The only way is to build more social housing.
What crisis, what "ghastly housing situation", I see very few people living on the streets, and certainly not 15,000 so presumably they're living somewhere now?

Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life?

Additionally, how many people that don't even live anywhere near Swindon are allowed on the list? The reality is that in the last 10 years or so the population of Swindon has increased by circa 20%. There has been no investment in infrastructure and no investment in local jobs. Until these issues are resolved there is simply no point in building more social housing. Encouraging more low skilled, low paid potential employees to the town is just not viable as there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is.
they shouldn't get a mortgage or social housing so where do you want them to go ,if your a tory its the low paid sick and disabled s own fault ,lets open the work house .... .what a stupid argument STOP SMOKING AND DRINKING GO WITHOUT AND SAVE UP .same old tory droll lazy scroungers sit on there backsides smoking and watching there 90 inch tvs all day. the only thing you said that makes any sense is that there are not enough jobs ..people cant afford to buy people cant afford to pay private rents and people want stability and they will not get that from a private rental .maybe if the tories didn't sell off all the council properties and labour bring in millions from abroad things would never have got so bad .the only solution is to build and build .by the way you certainly live up to your name grumpy old man
[quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]knittynora[/bold] wrote: Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing. This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages? The only way is to build more social housing.[/p][/quote]What crisis, what "ghastly housing situation", I see very few people living on the streets, and certainly not 15,000 so presumably they're living somewhere now? Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life? Additionally, how many people that don't even live anywhere near Swindon are allowed on the list? The reality is that in the last 10 years or so the population of Swindon has increased by circa 20%. There has been no investment in infrastructure and no investment in local jobs. Until these issues are resolved there is simply no point in building more social housing. Encouraging more low skilled, low paid potential employees to the town is just not viable as there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is.[/p][/quote]they shouldn't get a mortgage or social housing so where do you want them to go ,if your a tory its the low paid sick and disabled s own fault ,lets open the work house .... .what a stupid argument STOP SMOKING AND DRINKING GO WITHOUT AND SAVE UP .same old tory droll lazy scroungers sit on there backsides smoking and watching there 90 inch tvs all day. the only thing you said that makes any sense is that there are not enough jobs ..people cant afford to buy people cant afford to pay private rents and people want stability and they will not get that from a private rental .maybe if the tories didn't sell off all the council properties and labour bring in millions from abroad things would never have got so bad .the only solution is to build and build .by the way you certainly live up to your name grumpy old man lisers

10:50pm Tue 10 Dec 13

lisers says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
The Adver comments page on stories like this is the natural home of the right wing bigot. How the hell can someone get away unchallenged in saying "from experience council tenants don't know the meaning of grateful" or I bet old "Brian Shakespere's never paid proper market rent in his life" People post on this page behind a cloak of anonymity and spout their right wing clap trap and prejudice.. The changes SBC want to introduce to the allocations policy do nothing fundamentally to address the current shortfall in social/affordable rents. Just like the government of the day are doing nothing to address the shortage of all tenures of housing, Building new homes for social rent and new low cost homes for first time buyers is the only way to address the housing shortage in the UK. However, this will not happen as too many people are making too much money from private rental buy to lets and a huge part of the economy is propped up on artificially high house price's. BTW I live in a council house and I am extremely grateful.
ah someone who can talk sense , why do the mighty look down there noses at social tenents i do not know but they talk with a fork tongue at those they deem to be less then them and deserve nothing .bet they wear a blue coat
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The Adver comments page on stories like this is the natural home of the right wing bigot. How the hell can someone get away unchallenged in saying "from experience council tenants don't know the meaning of grateful" or I bet old "Brian Shakespere's never paid proper market rent in his life" People post on this page behind a cloak of anonymity and spout their right wing clap trap and prejudice.. The changes SBC want to introduce to the allocations policy do nothing fundamentally to address the current shortfall in social/affordable rents. Just like the government of the day are doing nothing to address the shortage of all tenures of housing, Building new homes for social rent and new low cost homes for first time buyers is the only way to address the housing shortage in the UK. However, this will not happen as too many people are making too much money from private rental buy to lets and a huge part of the economy is propped up on artificially high house price's. BTW I live in a council house and I am extremely grateful.[/p][/quote]ah someone who can talk sense , why do the mighty look down there noses at social tenents i do not know but they talk with a fork tongue at those they deem to be less then them and deserve nothing .bet they wear a blue coat lisers

10:55pm Tue 10 Dec 13

lisers says...

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
knittynora wrote:
Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing.
This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages?
The only way is to build more social housing.
What crisis, what "ghastly housing situation", I see very few people living on the streets, and certainly not 15,000 so presumably they're living somewhere now?

Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life?

Additionally, how many people that don't even live anywhere near Swindon are allowed on the list? The reality is that in the last 10 years or so the population of Swindon has increased by circa 20%. There has been no investment in infrastructure and no investment in local jobs. Until these issues are resolved there is simply no point in building more social housing. Encouraging more low skilled, low paid potential employees to the town is just not viable as there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is.
that's probably because you don't frequent the same alleyways parkland or multi storey carparks they do and i bet you don't help out at the homeless shelters
[quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]knittynora[/bold] wrote: Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing. This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages? The only way is to build more social housing.[/p][/quote]What crisis, what "ghastly housing situation", I see very few people living on the streets, and certainly not 15,000 so presumably they're living somewhere now? Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life? Additionally, how many people that don't even live anywhere near Swindon are allowed on the list? The reality is that in the last 10 years or so the population of Swindon has increased by circa 20%. There has been no investment in infrastructure and no investment in local jobs. Until these issues are resolved there is simply no point in building more social housing. Encouraging more low skilled, low paid potential employees to the town is just not viable as there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is.[/p][/quote]that's probably because you don't frequent the same alleyways parkland or multi storey carparks they do and i bet you don't help out at the homeless shelters lisers

11:16pm Tue 10 Dec 13

lisers says...

house on the hill wrote:
Tyran66 wrote:
jackdawson wrote:
Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.
Swindon is a very caring town, indeed I care about other people around me - I just don't think I should have to pay for them. Particularly when they can and should pay their own way.

No matter where you go, the grass will never be greener for you and your ilk when you have such a irresponsible, blinkered and self-interested view on life. Your leaving Swindon because their is no subsidised housing? Did you ever ask what it is you contribute to the town and why you should deserve support?

Ask yourself the question, I guarantee you won't like the answer and it will follow you wherever you move, that is unless your attitude changes.
Really good post, this "expectation" culture where so many think they are special cases and should have life handed to them on a plate is just dragging the country down. If you want something in life then go out earn it. If you want a family then go out and provide for them. If you want a house then work hard and save and prioritise what you want and stop expecting others to work hard and pay for your life.

I have no problem with helping those who truly need help, but I am disgusted by those who are quite capable of helping themselves but for whatever selfish reason they don't think they should have to. Life is about choices and priorities and no one else should be paying for yours but yourself. Very few "deserve" anything, the vast majority work hard and take responsibility for their own lives and for the rest, if you choose not to then you are on your own!
who are these selfish people you keep complaining about ,the ones who are dragging this country down and expect everything for nothing and your paying for it all ,is that the people who have lost there job or the sick and disabled you know the ones who are down on there luck ,you seem to know a lot of those who like things handed to them on a plate who we talking about ,your neighbours the family round the corner or the single parent .tell us who they are
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tyran66[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jackdawson[/bold] wrote: Have left Swindon. Fed up with living in a right wing Tory bubble. U know things are bad when the council includes in a statement "those who deserve a home". Hopefully, my new city WILL be a bit more 'loony left' and people will believe that all human beings deserve a home. LAST POST FROM ME EVER I HOPE - - gone where the grass is greener, the sun still shines and people still care about other people.[/p][/quote]Swindon is a very caring town, indeed I care about other people around me - I just don't think I should have to pay for them. Particularly when they can and should pay their own way. No matter where you go, the grass will never be greener for you and your ilk when you have such a irresponsible, blinkered and self-interested view on life. Your leaving Swindon because their is no subsidised housing? Did you ever ask what it is you contribute to the town and why you should deserve support? Ask yourself the question, I guarantee you won't like the answer and it will follow you wherever you move, that is unless your attitude changes.[/p][/quote]Really good post, this "expectation" culture where so many think they are special cases and should have life handed to them on a plate is just dragging the country down. If you want something in life then go out earn it. If you want a family then go out and provide for them. If you want a house then work hard and save and prioritise what you want and stop expecting others to work hard and pay for your life. I have no problem with helping those who truly need help, but I am disgusted by those who are quite capable of helping themselves but for whatever selfish reason they don't think they should have to. Life is about choices and priorities and no one else should be paying for yours but yourself. Very few "deserve" anything, the vast majority work hard and take responsibility for their own lives and for the rest, if you choose not to then you are on your own![/p][/quote]who are these selfish people you keep complaining about ,the ones who are dragging this country down and expect everything for nothing and your paying for it all ,is that the people who have lost there job or the sick and disabled you know the ones who are down on there luck ,you seem to know a lot of those who like things handed to them on a plate who we talking about ,your neighbours the family round the corner or the single parent .tell us who they are lisers

11:19pm Tue 10 Dec 13

lisers says...

swindondad wrote:
IHMO there does need to be a "root and branch" review of social housing provision to ensure that the help goes to those who need it the most.

Not that I expect the "loony left" to agree just look at Bob Crow the union leader on £145kpa + expenses who refuses to give up his council house, how is he "in need"?
why not mention the MP who who has a house in London but also gets the Tax payer to pay for him to rent in the capital
[quote][p][bold]swindondad[/bold] wrote: IHMO there does need to be a "root and branch" review of social housing provision to ensure that the help goes to those who need it the most. Not that I expect the "loony left" to agree just look at Bob Crow the union leader on £145kpa + expenses who refuses to give up his council house, how is he "in need"?[/p][/quote]why not mention the MP who who has a house in London but also gets the Tax payer to pay for him to rent in the capital lisers

11:25pm Tue 10 Dec 13

lisers says...

house on the hill wrote:
Ringer wrote:
I bet old Brian Shakespeare's never paid proper market rate, or a mortgage, for his home in 73 years.

You'd think he might be a bit more grateful, really.
from experience, grateful isn't a word council tenants know the meaning of most of them! Just want more and more for less and less. Dont put the rent up but we want a better service seems to be the message. Well in life you get what you pay for, so you want cheap rent you get less of a service. Simples!
what experience is that then and you seem to have a problem with council tenents full stop from the sound of it.. you should be living in the middle of the dark side of the moon certainly no council tenents there
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ringer[/bold] wrote: I bet old Brian Shakespeare's never paid proper market rate, or a mortgage, for his home in 73 years. You'd think he might be a bit more grateful, really.[/p][/quote]from experience, grateful isn't a word council tenants know the meaning of most of them! Just want more and more for less and less. Dont put the rent up but we want a better service seems to be the message. Well in life you get what you pay for, so you want cheap rent you get less of a service. Simples![/p][/quote]what experience is that then and you seem to have a problem with council tenents full stop from the sound of it.. you should be living in the middle of the dark side of the moon certainly no council tenents there lisers

11:41pm Tue 10 Dec 13

lisers says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
House on the Hill, the consultation on allocations policy was open to anyone so your argument does not stand up on that aspect alone. I would agree that most who bothered to get involved with the consultation were current or prospective tenants. There is a thread running through many of the comments on this page that goes along the lines of people on benefits should take responsibility for themselves and get on, I am paraphrasing. However nearly 60% of housing benefit is paid to those who work and in many cases to families where both parents work! The welfare state so many people on pages like this moan about props up an economy that is based on major companies paying less than living wages. The national housing shortage creates artificially high house prices that benefit older people who bought into the market years ago or older renters who have had homes for years. The young person in work or not has no real chance of accessing what many have taken for granted for years. In today's Independent a report states that a whole generation of people under thirty have no chance of home ownership or social renting as both sectors are broken. 310 people a day are applying for Housing Benefit in the private sector everyday because their wages are falling ever further behind their rents. To bang on about an expectation culture or strivers and shirkers as this government would say misses the fundamental point that every government since Maggie Thatchers' has ignored the problems in housing that now confront us all.
well thought out reply to some of the ridiculous and bigoted posts on here today :-)
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: House on the Hill, the consultation on allocations policy was open to anyone so your argument does not stand up on that aspect alone. I would agree that most who bothered to get involved with the consultation were current or prospective tenants. There is a thread running through many of the comments on this page that goes along the lines of people on benefits should take responsibility for themselves and get on, I am paraphrasing. However nearly 60% of housing benefit is paid to those who work and in many cases to families where both parents work! The welfare state so many people on pages like this moan about props up an economy that is based on major companies paying less than living wages. The national housing shortage creates artificially high house prices that benefit older people who bought into the market years ago or older renters who have had homes for years. The young person in work or not has no real chance of accessing what many have taken for granted for years. In today's Independent a report states that a whole generation of people under thirty have no chance of home ownership or social renting as both sectors are broken. 310 people a day are applying for Housing Benefit in the private sector everyday because their wages are falling ever further behind their rents. To bang on about an expectation culture or strivers and shirkers as this government would say misses the fundamental point that every government since Maggie Thatchers' has ignored the problems in housing that now confront us all.[/p][/quote]well thought out reply to some of the ridiculous and bigoted posts on here today :-) lisers

10:11am Wed 11 Dec 13

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

lisers wrote:
Spurs Fan wrote:
House on the Hill, the consultation on allocations policy was open to anyone so your argument does not stand up on that aspect alone. I would agree that most who bothered to get involved with the consultation were current or prospective tenants. There is a thread running through many of the comments on this page that goes along the lines of people on benefits should take responsibility for themselves and get on, I am paraphrasing. However nearly 60% of housing benefit is paid to those who work and in many cases to families where both parents work! The welfare state so many people on pages like this moan about props up an economy that is based on major companies paying less than living wages. The national housing shortage creates artificially high house prices that benefit older people who bought into the market years ago or older renters who have had homes for years. The young person in work or not has no real chance of accessing what many have taken for granted for years. In today's Independent a report states that a whole generation of people under thirty have no chance of home ownership or social renting as both sectors are broken. 310 people a day are applying for Housing Benefit in the private sector everyday because their wages are falling ever further behind their rents. To bang on about an expectation culture or strivers and shirkers as this government would say misses the fundamental point that every government since Maggie Thatchers' has ignored the problems in housing that now confront us all.
well thought out reply to some of the ridiculous and bigoted posts on here today :-)
Just because you don't agree with ithem doesn't make others comments "ridiculous and bigoted". Many people are sick and tired of the expectation culture in this country.

Perhaps if there were a few less benefits people might realise the world does not owe them a living and might actually go out and make something of themselves.
[quote][p][bold]lisers[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: House on the Hill, the consultation on allocations policy was open to anyone so your argument does not stand up on that aspect alone. I would agree that most who bothered to get involved with the consultation were current or prospective tenants. There is a thread running through many of the comments on this page that goes along the lines of people on benefits should take responsibility for themselves and get on, I am paraphrasing. However nearly 60% of housing benefit is paid to those who work and in many cases to families where both parents work! The welfare state so many people on pages like this moan about props up an economy that is based on major companies paying less than living wages. The national housing shortage creates artificially high house prices that benefit older people who bought into the market years ago or older renters who have had homes for years. The young person in work or not has no real chance of accessing what many have taken for granted for years. In today's Independent a report states that a whole generation of people under thirty have no chance of home ownership or social renting as both sectors are broken. 310 people a day are applying for Housing Benefit in the private sector everyday because their wages are falling ever further behind their rents. To bang on about an expectation culture or strivers and shirkers as this government would say misses the fundamental point that every government since Maggie Thatchers' has ignored the problems in housing that now confront us all.[/p][/quote]well thought out reply to some of the ridiculous and bigoted posts on here today :-)[/p][/quote]Just because you don't agree with ithem doesn't make others comments "ridiculous and bigoted". Many people are sick and tired of the expectation culture in this country. Perhaps if there were a few less benefits people might realise the world does not owe them a living and might actually go out and make something of themselves. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

10:15am Wed 11 Dec 13

Glad3k3 says...

Tyran66 wrote:
@Spurs fan. The "living wage" is a purely socialist construct, it is artificial in concept and application and panda's to the masses. Major companies pay people what they are worth according to the laws of economics - not an artificially low rate. If anything this rate is artificially inflate by the minimum wage.

Unfortunately "relative social worth" (distinctly separate from necessity) is something large sections (the less valuable) in society are not willing or able to accept. Like it or not, in reality and away from the influence of left wing politics - a doctor is more valuable to society than bus driver. Something clearly reflected by their respective salaries.

The great thing about our society is that it is possible for any individual to improve their own social worth -for free - via education / retraining. This opportunity simply does not exist in many parts of the world and it what is part of what makes Britain great.

This advancement does however require a huge amount of willpower, time and dedication. Something I would always be happy to pay for and support via general taxation.

The people however that have no desire to improve or better society should not be subsidised in any respect, including housing. They should examine their self worth and surroundings. They can always opt to self improve or accept the reality they have created for themselves. The only exception to this should be the disabled and truly vulnerable.
So by that logic, an MP is worth more than a GP. Yet the GP can go about saving lives, whilst the MP does what again to save lives?
[quote][p][bold]Tyran66[/bold] wrote: @Spurs fan. The "living wage" is a purely socialist construct, it is artificial in concept and application and panda's to the masses. Major companies pay people what they are worth according to the laws of economics - not an artificially low rate. If anything this rate is artificially inflate by the minimum wage. Unfortunately "relative social worth" (distinctly separate from necessity) is something large sections (the less valuable) in society are not willing or able to accept. Like it or not, in reality and away from the influence of left wing politics - a doctor is more valuable to society than bus driver. Something clearly reflected by their respective salaries. The great thing about our society is that it is possible for any individual to improve their own social worth -for free - via education / retraining. This opportunity simply does not exist in many parts of the world and it what is part of what makes Britain great. This advancement does however require a huge amount of willpower, time and dedication. Something I would always be happy to pay for and support via general taxation. The people however that have no desire to improve or better society should not be subsidised in any respect, including housing. They should examine their self worth and surroundings. They can always opt to self improve or accept the reality they have created for themselves. The only exception to this should be the disabled and truly vulnerable.[/p][/quote]So by that logic, an MP is worth more than a GP. Yet the GP can go about saving lives, whilst the MP does what again to save lives? Glad3k3

10:16am Wed 11 Dec 13

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

lisers wrote:
The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
knittynora wrote:
Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing.
This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages?
The only way is to build more social housing.
What crisis, what "ghastly housing situation", I see very few people living on the streets, and certainly not 15,000 so presumably they're living somewhere now?

Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life?

Additionally, how many people that don't even live anywhere near Swindon are allowed on the list? The reality is that in the last 10 years or so the population of Swindon has increased by circa 20%. There has been no investment in infrastructure and no investment in local jobs. Until these issues are resolved there is simply no point in building more social housing. Encouraging more low skilled, low paid potential employees to the town is just not viable as there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is.
that's probably because you don't frequent the same alleyways parkland or multi storey carparks they do and i bet you don't help out at the homeless shelters
Firstly, you have no idea where I go or what I do so please do not make such assumptions.
Secondly, if there were 15,000 (over 7% of the total population) people living in Swindon "alleyways, parkland or multi-storey car parks" or in homeless shelters, I think we'd know about it, It would be impossible to miss.
[quote][p][bold]lisers[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]knittynora[/bold] wrote: Richard Hurley said"“At the moment the list is full of people who shouldn’t be there, people who can probably afford to buy their own homes anyway.” When challenged at the Housing Advisory forum to back up this statement he admitted that he had no statistics on the incomes of applicants for Housing. This is just a cynical manoeuvre on the part of the council to reduce the Housing waiting list and make the ghastly housing situation in Swindon look better. All the fiddling of the figures will not change the Swindon housing crisis. How do people on minimum wage jobs get mortgages? The only way is to build more social housing.[/p][/quote]What crisis, what "ghastly housing situation", I see very few people living on the streets, and certainly not 15,000 so presumably they're living somewhere now? Why should people on minimum wages get mortgages? Perhaps if they want a mortgage they should stop smoking, drinking, go without and save up. At the same time of course working hard on their career to improve their chances in life? Additionally, how many people that don't even live anywhere near Swindon are allowed on the list? The reality is that in the last 10 years or so the population of Swindon has increased by circa 20%. There has been no investment in infrastructure and no investment in local jobs. Until these issues are resolved there is simply no point in building more social housing. Encouraging more low skilled, low paid potential employees to the town is just not viable as there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is.[/p][/quote]that's probably because you don't frequent the same alleyways parkland or multi storey carparks they do and i bet you don't help out at the homeless shelters[/p][/quote]Firstly, you have no idea where I go or what I do so please do not make such assumptions. Secondly, if there were 15,000 (over 7% of the total population) people living in Swindon "alleyways, parkland or multi-storey car parks" or in homeless shelters, I think we'd know about it, It would be impossible to miss. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man

7:16pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Tyran66 says...

@Glad3k3. Yes, exactly. Fireman, police and nurses all save lives too but do not get the pay of a GP. Evidently society values them slightly less and the level of skill associated with the roles is also slightly less.

An MP is basically a paid representative of a larger population - they are articulate, intelligent and savvy (if not always entirely honest) And they have the power to influence policy and society on a national scale.

I would say that the power of economics stands up well against your blatant, and somewhat shameless morality appeal pitch about "life saving" that was if you knew what you were talking about.

The average GP partner earned £103,000 in 2011/12 - significantly more than an MP which makes your point look very very stupid.
@Glad3k3. Yes, exactly. Fireman, police and nurses all save lives too but do not get the pay of a GP. Evidently society values them slightly less and the level of skill associated with the roles is also slightly less. An MP is basically a paid representative of a larger population - they are articulate, intelligent and savvy (if not always entirely honest) And they have the power to influence policy and society on a national scale. I would say that the power of economics stands up well against your blatant, and somewhat shameless morality appeal pitch about "life saving" that was if you knew what you were talking about. The average GP partner earned £103,000 in 2011/12 - significantly more than an MP which makes your point look very very stupid. Tyran66

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