Pupils taken out of Islam lessons
9:13am Friday 22nd December 2006
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PARENTS in Swindon want their children pulled from religious education classes that teach them about Islam, town headteachers have warned.
According to the annual report of the Standing Advisory Council On Religious Education - the thinktank of religious leaders, teachers, councillors and community members that meets four times a year to devise the religious education agenda in Swindon's schools - headteachers are looking for advice after being approached by parents who don't want their children to learn about Islam.
While the report says the parents concerned are a small minority, town Islamic leader Mansoor Khan has warned that fears about his religion must be addressed.
Mr Khan, the general secretary of Thamesdown Islamic Association, blamed the boycotts on fears created by the actions of extremists in the July 7 bombings and September 11 attacks in New York.
"That's bearing on people's minds but that's nothing to do with Islam," Mr Khan said.
"Even if it's a small problem it still needs to be sorted out."
He said he was willing to talk to any concerned parents at any school, and would investigate joining the advisory council.
Sacre's report says religious education classes reflect the multi-faith background of Swindon but the committee's adviser has been concerned about inquiries from headteachers from a small minority of parents wishing to withdraw their children from teaching on Islam."
It has introduced new units for early years in secondary schools to increase the number of faiths covered.
Advisory council member and Parks councillor Fay Howard said the committee would investigate further. "That is a very big concern," she said.
Coun Howard said the issue had spread to the Sikh community, saying she had heard of one parent requesting their child be withdrawn from an excursion to the temple in Gorse Hill.
Fellow councillor, advisory committee member and former headteacher Eric Shaw said education should expose children to a variety of ideas.
He said the emotive issue involved a very small number of parents but could not be ignored.
"It needs working out, not putting under the carpet," Coun Shaw said.
"I'm sure this has come up more as a result of recent unfortunate events or if families have somebody in places like Iraq."
Ridgeway School headteacher Steven Colledge said parents at his school had not asked for children to be removed from classes dealing with Islam but he was shocked to hear that it had happened elsewhere.
"It's hard to understand why a parent wouldn't want their child educated about the world," he said.
"Religious education is not about converting anybody to Islam or any other religion."
Drove Primary School headteacher Nick Capstick said any parent that wanted their child out of classes covering Islam was very shortsighted.
He said no parent at his school - which has pupils from the most ethnically diverse backgrounds in Swindon - had asked that their child be removed from any classes on religion.
His school recently held Christmas carols that involved children of all faiths, including Muslims.
"We would be reluctant to support any child being withdrawn from a class," Mr Capstick said.
He said the key to a happy school and community was understanding and respect of other cultures and beliefs.
"If you take your child away from that, you are being divisive," he said.
Your Say YourThis Is Wiltshire
brian compton, says...
10:20am Fri 22 Dec 06
its getting a bit silly now ok teach a bit about islam but this a christian country yes it just seems to me as they have come to this country and are trying impose there values on us.
i was in malta in sept and i sore a block go on his roof and start praying to me that was accptable his belifes he kept to him self.
i was in malta in sept and i sore a block go on his roof and start praying to me that was accptable his belifes he kept to him self.
paul D, says...
10:37am Fri 22 Dec 06
Is judaism taught in schools as well ?
How would muslims, supporters of islam, sikhs etc feel if they were taken into a synagogue ?
would they be as understanding as christians ?
Interesting thoughts
How would muslims, supporters of islam, sikhs etc feel if they were taken into a synagogue ?
would they be as understanding as christians ?
Interesting thoughts
Anon, says...
11:14am Fri 22 Dec 06
The amount of ignorance in this town never ceases to amaze me.
It is incredibly offensive that any parent would keep their child away from learning about other religions, including Islam, Sikhism, Buddism etc. Christianity is still widely taught in primary schools and it is about time other religions were included more.
I am saying this as a white, british-born, person brought up in the christian faith for all those out there thinking I'm Muslim.
These parents should think more about their own facist views they are passing on to their own children.
It is incredibly offensive that any parent would keep their child away from learning about other religions, including Islam, Sikhism, Buddism etc. Christianity is still widely taught in primary schools and it is about time other religions were included more.
I am saying this as a white, british-born, person brought up in the christian faith for all those out there thinking I'm Muslim.
These parents should think more about their own facist views they are passing on to their own children.
dave godfrey, says...
11:22am Fri 22 Dec 06
If it is neccessary to teach religion in schools at all, then the teaching should encompass all forms of religious thought. No faith has a monopoly on the truth, that's why it's called faith. Atheism and agnsosticism should be included.
Garry, says...
11:37am Fri 22 Dec 06
Problems occur when a balanced view is not taught; negative as well as positive aspects must be discussed - I imagine political correctness would prevent this. Followers of particular religions will only emphasise beneficial views and ignore or play down extremist elements.
Would the title of the lesson be, for example, "Ninety percent of the wars and the misery in the world are caused by religion. Discuss"?
Would the title of the lesson be, for example, "Ninety percent of the wars and the misery in the world are caused by religion. Discuss"?
gls, says...
11:47am Fri 22 Dec 06
Schools should be secular and should stick to teaching facts instead of the superstitious, mumbo jumbo some people call religion.
anon, says...
11:59am Fri 22 Dec 06
Knowledge of each others beliefs and customs gives everyone a better chance of understanding one another and living together in an enriching and peaceful environment. Ignorance only leads to more misuderstanding. In multicultural Britain 'Christian' children should certainly learn about Islam, amongst other religions, and equally 'Muslim' children should also learn about other religions, including judaism and how it is not synonymous with zionism.
Paul Davies, says...
12:26pm Fri 22 Dec 06
this is just another form of bigotry.
I am of no religion at all, but I have no problem with my children learning about any religion. It's up to them to make their own minds up about whether to have a faith or not.
Choosing not to learn about other people's cultures is just a form of deliberate ignorance, but then again any child whose parents are this ignorant may as well leave school at the age of 7 anyway, as they will be no use to society when they grow up.
I'm not happy about the state of the world currently, but one thing I am absolutely certain of is that Islam as a religion is not to blame. Blame is at the feet of the greedy nations of the world (including the UK) who use force to implore their will and greed upon weaker nations.
Also - lets not forget that the world-conquering nation of just 120 years ago was the UK. We invaded much of Africa and the Indian Subcontinent and basically took over. That was just 4 or 5 generations ago. After we had robbed these countires of all that they were worth and imposed our forms of government and agriculture upon them we left leaving them to fend for themselves. This has been an enormous struggle for most of these countries and as a result they seek safety in another country. I Can't blame them.
I am of no religion at all, but I have no problem with my children learning about any religion. It's up to them to make their own minds up about whether to have a faith or not.
Choosing not to learn about other people's cultures is just a form of deliberate ignorance, but then again any child whose parents are this ignorant may as well leave school at the age of 7 anyway, as they will be no use to society when they grow up.
I'm not happy about the state of the world currently, but one thing I am absolutely certain of is that Islam as a religion is not to blame. Blame is at the feet of the greedy nations of the world (including the UK) who use force to implore their will and greed upon weaker nations.
Also - lets not forget that the world-conquering nation of just 120 years ago was the UK. We invaded much of Africa and the Indian Subcontinent and basically took over. That was just 4 or 5 generations ago. After we had robbed these countires of all that they were worth and imposed our forms of government and agriculture upon them we left leaving them to fend for themselves. This has been an enormous struggle for most of these countries and as a result they seek safety in another country. I Can't blame them.
Hang on a minute, says...
1:21pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Also - lets not forget that the world-conquering nation of just 120 years ago was the UK. We invaded much of Africa and the Indian Subcontinent and basically took over. That was just 4 or 5 generations ago. After we had robbed these countires of all that they were worth and imposed our forms of government and agriculture upon them we left leaving them to fend for themselves.
Dear Paul Davies,
Gone off on a bit of a tangent haven't we.
Everybody should be aware of every religion, culture and way of life. The question here is "how do we achieve that?"
GE, says...
1:23pm Fri 22 Dec 06
I think people are missing a trick here. Surely it's up to the parents? Correct me if I am wrong but parents to have a right to have their children opt out of religious studies. If they wish for them not to learn about Islam, or any other religion for that matter, that surely is their right? I certainly don't think it's the right of the self appointed, and quiote frankly smug middle class guardians of Britain's failed, and disastorous experiment with multi-culturalism to decide.
UK Daily Pundit, says...
2:35pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Mr Capstick says: "We would be reluctant to support any child being withdrawn from a class."
Surely a parent has the right to ensure that their children are not being forcibly taught Islamic studies? And isn't it always the case with Mr Capstick and his ilk that they expect us to tolerate everything they believe in, but refuse to tolerate the views of those who disagree with them?
Surely a parent has the right to ensure that their children are not being forcibly taught Islamic studies? And isn't it always the case with Mr Capstick and his ilk that they expect us to tolerate everything they believe in, but refuse to tolerate the views of those who disagree with them?
JENNIE, says...
2:38pm Fri 22 Dec 06
If one went to their counrty would they teach us Christianity. Well we all know the answer "NO" we are to eagar to please other cultures in this counrty. Afraid to offend. Its about time we all stood up for our own culture for a change. We should try and understand others but this is a CHRISTIAN counrty. Which we are losing our identity.
Bryan, says...
2:53pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Please can you tell me if the countries of origin, of islamics teach Christianity.
If not, Why are we teaching about their religions here.
If not, Why are we teaching about their religions here.
JENNIE, says...
3:09pm Fri 22 Dec 06
What next NO CHRISTMAS "ALLOWED" in our schools
harry, says...
4:07pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Its our country why are we teaching our kids that sort of thing. Surely they should be learning christianity rather than islam etc etc. Teaching kids this sort of gabbage is just preparing the next generation of suicide bombers.
Jon Miller, says...
4:09pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Count me in as one of the peope who doesn't want my two children indoctrinated in Islam by the politically correct teaching establishment. At the ages of 3 and 5 they have already travelled extensivly so its not a case of being ignorant of the world its a case of England being a Christian country. This is mean't to still be rural England we are living in not East London or Luton.
j.odey, says...
4:19pm Fri 22 Dec 06
this story beggers belief as again we are not allowed to have our own minds we must bow down to all but being english in bournemouth they are not having christmas parties at schools so not to affend other religions when is this going to end are the english english or cowards having no say leads to more people joining things like the bnp even going as far as becomming a neo nazi so if you cant speak out the we only have ourselves to blame and the stupied nanny state we are in
Janice L, says...
4:31pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Anon wrote:People like you with your arrogant and condescending PC views where you know whats best for everyone else and their children is what has caused the UK to begin to degenerate into a multicultural **** hole as can be seen in parts of London. When someone disagrees then you resort to name calling such as facist. Grow up or better yet move somehwere else. May I suggest Pakistan!
The amount of ignorance in this town never ceases to amaze me. It is incredibly offensive that any parent would keep their child away from learning about other religions, including Islam, Sikhism, Buddism etc. Christianity is still widely taught in primary schools and it is about time other religions were included more. I am saying this as a white, british-born, person brought up in the christian faith for all those out there thinking I'm Muslim. These parents should think more about their own facist views they are passing on to their own children.
Harry, says...
4:33pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Sorry not my kid! Mohammed was a paedophile.He married Ayesha when she was 6 years of age and consumated the marriage when she was just nine years of age.Mohammed at the time was in his fifties with many wives.This is FACT as stated in the Daily Telegraph and the Islamic holy book the Bakhara.So how can you teach our kids about an overt paedophile?
JENNIE, says...
5:20pm Fri 22 Dec 06
"When in Rome do as the romans"
When in UK do to please others it seems not our own. When in their Counrty do as THEY want NOT OUR CULTURE. We are all so easily scare to upset and they paly on it. You would not get away with it in their country so why come here to do it and "THEY KNOW IT"
I am White, I am not a RACIST, but this is "ENGLAND" and each to their own so why push it onto us. Everyone has a choice in what they believe, not to be forced into it. I will not let my kids be taught and that goes for Christianty as well, when they are old enough to make their own choice then so be it. No one has the right to force any religion on to anyone not matter what it is.
"FREEDOM OF CHOICE"
Not like it seems. AS STATED WE ARE ALL TO SCARED TO OFFEND THESE PEOPLE??????
When in UK do to please others it seems not our own. When in their Counrty do as THEY want NOT OUR CULTURE. We are all so easily scare to upset and they paly on it. You would not get away with it in their country so why come here to do it and "THEY KNOW IT"
I am White, I am not a RACIST, but this is "ENGLAND" and each to their own so why push it onto us. Everyone has a choice in what they believe, not to be forced into it. I will not let my kids be taught and that goes for Christianty as well, when they are old enough to make their own choice then so be it. No one has the right to force any religion on to anyone not matter what it is.
"FREEDOM OF CHOICE"
Not like it seems. AS STATED WE ARE ALL TO SCARED TO OFFEND THESE PEOPLE??????
N Harvey, says...
5:21pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Political correctness gone mad and excessive minority rights contribute to the situation regarding muslims in the UK in which distrust and even fear are evident. It seems as if some ethnic-Britons are ashamed of their own culture and feel that kowtowing to immigrants is some kind of spiritual atonement for Britain's colonial history. This kind of behaviour brings about resentment from the majority who rightly feel as if the minority is being given preferential treatment. Yes, do respect the minority but don't forget the majority.
CK, says...
5:54pm Fri 22 Dec 06
If these people want Islam forced down the throats of British children, then they are trying to brainwash our children. This is predominantly a Christian country and if these Islamic people don't like it here, don't like our religion and traditions then I suggest they take the first boat or plane back from whence they came.
Francis Horden, says...
5:59pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Just done a google search "mohammed paedophile"what an eye opener.Masses on the subject.Seems Harry was right..
JENNIE, says...
6:16pm Fri 22 Dec 06
One would wonder why these people come here when they pass threw so many countries on the route. Are we so stupid, why not settle in the first counrty they get to they are surely "SAFE".
Ahhh The good old British.
Ahhh The good old British.
Phil Elvin, says...
6:34pm Fri 22 Dec 06
When I was at school back in 1962 I too learned a little about all religions including Islam. Total schooling on Islam or any other non Christian religion took no more than a lesson or two. Today I feel there is a desire to indoctrinate our school children with Islam. The terrible story about that anti Christian school in Corsham is enough to make any parent want to remove his or her children from religious classes. Also British people are sick and tired of the very word Islam.
JENNIE, says...
6:37pm Fri 22 Dec 06
well said Phil, we are sick and tired. but most now have become scared to speak or have a point of view in our own country
mark, says...
6:48pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Any parent that takes the time to examine what islam is all about,will not let their child anywhere near a class that teaches islam. Its not a religion, its a cult/political system closely resembling nazism
The ghost of Christmas past, says...
6:59pm Fri 22 Dec 06
When are we going to start standing up for ourselves?. I for one do not believe for one moment that its always the Islamic groups who take offence at everything Christian or British, rather they are used as a convenient excuse to stamp out our culture, by the "powers that be". If I had moved to a land of milk and honey, I certainly wouldnt want to shoot the cow..would you?. Britain is being run by a Marxist ideology, which has worked against our values, (and those of many other countries too)for years before the arrival of Islam on our shores. The threat of terrorism and all it entails is a very convenient reason to further enslave chip and pin us, (and not the perceived threat) Couple this with politicians, legislators and town hall tyrants clambering to make a name for themselves on the cheap, and the result that we have is political correctness gone mad. The pandering to an ethnic voting base firstly because it looks good, and secondly because it further erodes the existing culture. Yes we do have a major problem on our hands with immigration, and yes we do have to address this quickly, but equally we have to deal with the ones who would see our children learning a foreign culture before their own, those who are laughing snidely at the Brits becoming all "racist", while they continue to do their meddlesome and dirty work unchallenged. We need to change our political allegiances from the gang of career criminals running all the media backed parties, and choose leaders who have a genuine love and concern for this country, and at present there is no one but the BNP, however unpalattable that truth may be to those brainwashed with years of careful conditioning into self destruction. Time for a wakeup call Wakey! Wakey!
Simon Dickinson, says...
7:15pm Fri 22 Dec 06
I'm just surprised it's only a small minority of parents who want their children withdrawn, what possible use can there be for young christian children to learn the teachings of a barbaric faith like Islam ?
NIc, says...
7:31pm Fri 22 Dec 06
As an atheist, I think that we SHOULD have religious education in schools...but dispassionately. Inspect each religion by it's historic fruits.
Most religions have - at one point or another - been hijacked to justify atrocity and mass-murder. But only ONE religion -IN IT'S SCRIPTURES - builds the idea of conquest of other countries, enslavement (Dhimmi), and exhorts it's followers to murder everyone of a different faith.
So by all means teach young people about it.
Most religions have - at one point or another - been hijacked to justify atrocity and mass-murder. But only ONE religion -IN IT'S SCRIPTURES - builds the idea of conquest of other countries, enslavement (Dhimmi), and exhorts it's followers to murder everyone of a different faith.
So by all means teach young people about it.
Carl, says...
7:56pm Fri 22 Dec 06
http://www.politicalcartoons.com/cartoon/55df1edc-9066-47b3-9048-f1479ae80ff0.html
george whyte, says...
8:33pm Fri 22 Dec 06
are the children being taught the age of ayisha, in these lessons
no...wonder ehy.
no...wonder ehy.
Tom, says...
8:35pm Fri 22 Dec 06
For crying out loud, think about it. Learning about Hitler in history does not make you a Nazi, so it's absolute rubbish to say that lessons about Islam are indoctrinating children. RE lessons aren't there to convert you, only to teach you more about the world: if being politically correct means standing up for education, then count me in.
Would you pull your child out of an RE class about Catholicism, just because the IRA were and are nasty extremists? Thought not.
Would you pull your child out of an RE class about Catholicism, just because the IRA were and are nasty extremists? Thought not.
Harry, says...
9:56pm Fri 22 Dec 06
Understand your argument Tom but surely you cannot teach Christian kids the ways of the paedophile Mohammed.Still waiting for the moderate Muslims to deny my factual comments as well as some of the very Liberal bloggers on this topic.Is the sordid truth too hard to argue?
Bowen, says...
10:03pm Fri 22 Dec 06
I ask just one question ;In a muslim country would Muslim kids ,be allowed to learn about Christianity?.Now anybody who believes they would is a dangerous lunetic.Ask anyone who has travelled in these Arabic countries ,knows very well that anyone who made such a suggestion woud be dead ,dead,dead.
mad mike, says...
10:23pm Fri 22 Dec 06
I believe that the koran and the torah should be compared and contrasted with the bible, and a child left to make up his own mind. The issue I have is that teachers especially where I live force children to visit mosques, and make them read from the koran, then tell them that christianity is evil and wicked.I am so fed up with all this onesided poo, after all we couldnt do it in a muslim country.I am voting BNP next may as it seems only they can sort it out
Happy Winterval, says...
11:25pm Fri 22 Dec 06
The decision by parents to take children out of Islamic studies (as is their legal right) is showing their concern for what is and isn't being taught. Islam as a religion of peace is in, but the horror of halal slaughter, the oppression of women and the acceptance of violence toward non-believers is out. Oh, and don't forget the self confessed fact that mohammed was a paedophile (praise be upon him!)
The political dogma that is Islam is the biggest threat to our way of life in our history (and that includes Hitler). We are sleepwalking to disaster, and the Marxist PC brigade are helping the process along.
Anyone who doubts the truth in front of you - do your research. There are many internet sites out there, some by ex-muslims that tell it as it is.
The political dogma that is Islam is the biggest threat to our way of life in our history (and that includes Hitler). We are sleepwalking to disaster, and the Marxist PC brigade are helping the process along.
Anyone who doubts the truth in front of you - do your research. There are many internet sites out there, some by ex-muslims that tell it as it is.
Chris, says...
11:38pm Fri 22 Dec 06
As someone else said, if you MUST teach our children about Islam then it should as an absolute minimum requirement be an objective clinical analysis showing both sides and political implications of the religions stated aims, then as they grow children have a chance of forming a complete opinion based on all the information. I already have my opinion, if you wush to read more of the other side of Islam for yourself then go here www.Iamanenglishman.com its an eye opener. As for The BNP, well in fairness I dont see any other party sticking up for our own people,I think we have ceased to exist as far as the mainstream politicians seem to be concerned. look all around you, nothing but climbing jobless figures as work is offshored to chase ever greater profits while at home our people are sacked to be replaced with cheap migrant labour. This situation cannot go on indefinatley. If we sow the wind we shall reap the whirlwind.
Cat, says...
11:48pm Fri 22 Dec 06
The secretive and cliquish nature of Islam invites mistrust. Smiling Muslims assure us they are peaceful but others protest with placards calling for death to the West. The "moderates"(the patient ones whoo will take over by stealth) remain serene and smiling, full of reassurances but they dont ever outrightly condemn or take on the strident ones. The Ummah comes first.
Taking the trouble to read the Qu'ran properly reveals a reasonably okay faith....to other Muslims, not the Kaffur, (thats us). I prefer to take my tuition about Islam from Ali Sina a Muslim apostate from faithfreedom international.com who tells it like it is, not some Leftie Headmaster who calls concerned and probably better informed parents than he, "divisive".I would not allow my child to be seduced by Scientologists or the Moonies in school either. The Scientologists and Moonies only want cash and I'm sure they've never threatened National Security either.
Taking the trouble to read the Qu'ran properly reveals a reasonably okay faith....to other Muslims, not the Kaffur, (thats us). I prefer to take my tuition about Islam from Ali Sina a Muslim apostate from faithfreedom international.com who tells it like it is, not some Leftie Headmaster who calls concerned and probably better informed parents than he, "divisive".I would not allow my child to be seduced by Scientologists or the Moonies in school either. The Scientologists and Moonies only want cash and I'm sure they've never threatened National Security either.
Veer, says...
1:52am Sat 23 Dec 06
paul D wrote:Paul, I'm Sikh and my family and I go mostly every Sunday to the Sikh temple and church. I have been also to the synagogue. I believe on Jesus. However, I have never been to a Mosque because I feel uncomfortable to go there. I have absolutely no objections if my child is being taught about Christianity. I have no problems with any British tradition as I would celebrate and respect them as well. Its just the matter of how tolerant the person is.
Is judaism taught in schools as well ? How would muslims, supporters of islam, sikhs etc feel if they were taken into a synagogue ? would they be as understanding as christians ? Interesting thoughts
Rowan, says...
1:57am Sat 23 Dec 06
If true, this is very sad. I am not a particularly religious person, but understanding other religions is very important to my mind. I studied Islam when I was doing my GCSEs and found it a fascinating subject. I have since been fortunate to have travelled to many Muslim countries where a basic knowledge of Islam has resulted in many interesting conversations, visits to beautiful Mosques and most importantly - new friends.
With recent World events it is more important than ever that the next generation understand that Islam is a peaceful and fascinating religion.
With recent World events it is more important than ever that the next generation understand that Islam is a peaceful and fascinating religion.
Ronald Hume, says...
6:11am Sat 23 Dec 06
Islam is a killing cult killing one another and killing others without reason. It is the most intense insane pocket on the globe. There is no other so-called religion like Islam for its satanic fundamentals. Look at all the troubled spots oin the world, in fact look at the history of Islam and you will see it is plain and simply evil. Their aim is to take over the western world. What better way than by indictrinating our children with their as Rushdie called it "Satanic Lies"
They come to the west and want to impose their BS on us. I say send them all back to where they came from. Lets get England to be GREAT BRITAIN again, something that will never happen as long as we have this cancer of Islam with us.
They come to the west and want to impose their BS on us. I say send them all back to where they came from. Lets get England to be GREAT BRITAIN again, something that will never happen as long as we have this cancer of Islam with us.
Tom, says...
8:50am Sat 23 Dec 06
Nobody's asking you to like Islam - and there's much that's wrong with it. But to modern thinking there's lots that's "wrong" with Christianity and Hinduism and many other religions too. You can learn about the roots of a religion without having to adopt it, and as for the "you couldn't teach Christianity in a Muslim country" surely that's one of the reasons for supporting a wide-ranging education system here, and something to be proud of. It's a good thing that Britain can cope with different faiths and viewpoints. The BNP voters above want to have it both ways - to claim that this country is free and a democracy, and yet also to ban anything they don't like. It's either ill thought-out or just plain prejudiced, and either way a lot of these posts are depressing reading.
chris.w, says...
9:01am Sat 23 Dec 06
JENNIE wrote:What a selective view of history all Muslims have. They completely ignore the fact that a few short years after the death of their prophet, Mohammed, Moslem armies attacked, without provocation, what was the former Roman Empire, called Byzantium. Byzantium was Christian and the Moslems were really out to get them.
\"When in Rome do as the romans\" When in UK do to please others it seems not our own. When in their Counrty do as THEY want NOT OUR CULTURE. We are all so easily scare to upset and they paly on it. You would not get away with it in their country so why come here to do it and \"THEY KNOW IT\" I am White, I am not a RACIST, but this is \"ENGLAND\" and each to their own so why push it onto us. Everyone has a choice in what they believe, not to be forced into it. I will not let my kids be taught and that goes for Christianty as well, when they are old enough to make their own choice then so be it. No one has the right to force any religion on to anyone not matter what it is. \"FREEDOM OF CHOICE\" Not like it seems. AS STATED WE ARE ALL TO SCARED TO OFFEND THESE PEOPLE??????
They invaded Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, Mesopotamia (Iraq) Persia (Iran) and several other Christian countries from the old Roman Empire.
The Christian church did nothing until the Muslims were knocking on the doors of Greece and the Caliph of Greece appealed to the then pope to intervene. This led to the first Crusade.
Far from the Muslims being the victims of Christian armies, it was very much the other way round. Islam did not spread around the world by peaceful Muslim missionaries evangelizing their religion, but by war, invasion, occupation, enforced conversions and slavery.
Spain was occupied by Moslems for 800 years after invasion and Muslim armies almost reached France and Austria.
No bloody wonder they had to be stopped by the Crusaders. However, no Muslim is going to admit the part played by their religious forebears in provoking the Crusades in the first place, because they believed then and now that they were doing the work of Allah in creating a world under Islam.
It's about time the people in the west started speaking out against Muslim aggression, from the time of the crusades to now. Once they realise that Islam is not and never has been a peaceful religion and has never lost its primary objective of an Islamic world, and then perhaps we can view them and counteract them more objectively.
_________________
"No foreigner Prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have any jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence within this realm."
English Bill of Rights 1689.
phitzy2, says...
9:06am Sat 23 Dec 06
To all those PC Do-Gooders that feel they should defend Islam have you actually read the Koran??? I suggest you do. You will see for your own ees what a violent hate filled book it is. If Islam was classed as a religion it would be banned under sexist, racist, child abuse, incitement to hatred laws.
If you don't have time to reda it all may I suggest you read the verses in Sura 9. Particularly the parts where it states that Muslims should ambush all Jews & Christians. These are the bits I can say on here - the rest is far more vile.
If you don't have time to reda it all may I suggest you read the verses in Sura 9. Particularly the parts where it states that Muslims should ambush all Jews & Christians. These are the bits I can say on here - the rest is far more vile.
phitzy2, says...
9:08am Sat 23 Dec 06
To all those PC Do-Gooders that feel they should defend Islam have you actually read the Koran??? I suggest you do. You will see for your own eyes what a violent hate filled book it is. If Islam was not (wrongly) classed as a religion it would be banned under sexist, racist, child abuse, incitement to hatred laws.
If you don't have time to read it all may I suggest you read the verses in Sura 9. Particularly the parts where it states that Muslims should ambush all Jews & Christians. These are the bits I can say on here - the rest is far more vile.
If you don't have time to read it all may I suggest you read the verses in Sura 9. Particularly the parts where it states that Muslims should ambush all Jews & Christians. These are the bits I can say on here - the rest is far more vile.
zac smithers, says...
9:09am Sat 23 Dec 06
ãÍãÏ ÇáÈÑÇÏÚí wrote:Be VERY careful, it is not our idiot government that makes us one of the most powerful countries on earth, it is our people. Whilst our government may tolerate you people the time is rapidly coming to an end that the people of this country are going to tolerate you any further. Be careful not to wake the dragon, you will find out how weak and insignificant you really as you are driven into the sea and out of existence.
Our children in infant schools are already beginning to outnumber the morally corrupt indigenous population of the UK, that is the future of Britain. Even without further immigration we will have your country off you. We are the religion of peace and to prove it we will take your country off you without going to war. The time when we have to show the Kaffur any respect in this land is coming to an end. As for the BNP we will have you in orange jump suits and appearing on Al Jazeera receiving Allahs punishment, you know what I mean!
JENNIE, says...
9:11am Sat 23 Dec 06
We do dont have problem with other peoples religion. Unlike you (TOM)good do'ers who want everyone to live in harmony. try living in the real world. Why not look at other europen countries who wont let this happen, but no people like you.Well what can I say Name me a country that this happens. They cannot live peacefully between themselves.
As for the BNP well I do not belong there but maybe they do have a point and the goverment cant deal with it and neither can people like you. Even if they are totally wrong about what they say, they are alowed to say as for freedom of speak. But when it comes down to it"only when it suits".
They are right in what they say. this is no longer our counrty we are to scared to stand up and protect our great BRITISH heritage.
Yes we can live along side these people very happily but why should we change to suit them. Most cannot even speak "QUEENS ENGLISH"
If it make depressing reading dont read that is your choice but this is GREAT BRITAIN
As for the BNP well I do not belong there but maybe they do have a point and the goverment cant deal with it and neither can people like you. Even if they are totally wrong about what they say, they are alowed to say as for freedom of speak. But when it comes down to it"only when it suits".
They are right in what they say. this is no longer our counrty we are to scared to stand up and protect our great BRITISH heritage.
Yes we can live along side these people very happily but why should we change to suit them. Most cannot even speak "QUEENS ENGLISH"
If it make depressing reading dont read that is your choice but this is GREAT BRITAIN
phitzy2, says...
9:21am Sat 23 Dec 06
I also meant to say that perhaps they should teach about Islam in schools. BUT they should teach the facts and not just the bits the appeasers would like you to see.
We also had a friend who converted to Islam when she married a Muslim, her son was "taught" the Koran at the mosque and if they hadn't learn't the bits at home that he should have between sessions then he was beaten. She has left now. Perhaps we should do that in schools as well???
And while we are at it shall we start stoning women to death for adultery when they are raped.
Shall we stop teaching girls at school? Afterall in Islam they are only worth half a man.
Shall we allow honour killings if our girls dare to marry non muslim?
Shall we only feed our children school meals where the animals have been ritually killed in a slow painful way?
Shall we teach our children that it is right to murder cartoonists (or anyone) that dares to offer the slightist criticism of Islam or follows another faith.
Perhaps we should do all the above because this vile freedom we have to think freely, act freely, to treat everyone with respect, to enjoy the freedom of speech, to enjoy life with the correct morals and laws, because all this might be offensive to Muslims and the PC appeasers????
We also had a friend who converted to Islam when she married a Muslim, her son was "taught" the Koran at the mosque and if they hadn't learn't the bits at home that he should have between sessions then he was beaten. She has left now. Perhaps we should do that in schools as well???
And while we are at it shall we start stoning women to death for adultery when they are raped.
Shall we stop teaching girls at school? Afterall in Islam they are only worth half a man.
Shall we allow honour killings if our girls dare to marry non muslim?
Shall we only feed our children school meals where the animals have been ritually killed in a slow painful way?
Shall we teach our children that it is right to murder cartoonists (or anyone) that dares to offer the slightist criticism of Islam or follows another faith.
Perhaps we should do all the above because this vile freedom we have to think freely, act freely, to treat everyone with respect, to enjoy the freedom of speech, to enjoy life with the correct morals and laws, because all this might be offensive to Muslims and the PC appeasers????
Harry, says...
9:36am Sat 23 Dec 06
TOM are you listening? Mohammed was a paedophile that is FACT.You have seen no dissenting comments from Muslims on this FACT. Please check it out on google search.So how can we teach our children about an overt paedophile such as Mohammed? Yes we know it is common practise in Pakistan and other Muslim countries for young girls to marry at 10 years of age,but this is enlightened Britain and it is illegal here.Are you saying we should corrupt our children by teaching them this utter filth?
David Smith, says...
10:11am Sat 23 Dec 06
محمد البرادعي wrote:The above is all true.
Our children in infant schools are already beginning to outnumber the morally corrupt indigenous population of the UK, that is the future of Britain. Even without further immigration we will have your country off you. We are the religion of peace and to prove it we will take your country off you without going to war. The time when we have to show the Kaffur any respect in this land is coming to an end. As for the BNP we will have you in orange jump suits and appearing on Al Jazeera receiving Allah’s punishment, you know what I mean!
And we are letting it happen.
Once it's happened fully we will do what we always do, look back and say 'How did we ever let that happen?', as if we couldn't see it coming.
And for those people who've mentioned it above, far from tolerating other views and religions, Muslim countries ban any teaching of any but Islam and even ban ownership of materials such as the Bible and other non-Islamic religious artefacts.
As per usual, we HAVE to tolerate things, nobody else does.
Conrad B Toms, says...
10:39am Sat 23 Dec 06
Under Islamic rule you wil have No singing..No Dancing.. No Pop Stars..No Joking..No Fashion.. No Drinking..No Sports etc etc. Not something you would look forward too.But in a matter of 90 years or so it will be fact.
Simon Dickinson, says...
11:21am Sat 23 Dec 06
The threat from Islamic fundamentalists in Britain may be over emphasised, however Islam must never be allowed to gain a foothold here or in western europe, right wing parties throughout europe including the BNP are gaining rapid support and Le pen's front national now pose a serious presidential threat in a few months time. The BNP are certainly on course for real attainable power within twenty years and failure is not and cannot be an option, our forefathers did not fight and die in two world wars to give away our rights and freedoms to a small cabal of PC hand wringing apologists who have been in power for far too long.
ROBERT CROSS, says...
12:02pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Why would any English parent allow thier chilren to be involved with a cult whos avowed aim is the destruction of everything that our nation has built over the past millinum?and replace it with intollerance ,brutality and murder.There are no "moderate muslims"they are all meerly awaiting the time when they out-number us,meanwhile they continue to infiltrate our institutions in order to subvert the democratic will of the English people,as they are engaged in the same agenda across europe,look at any western country with a burgeoning muslim population,france,holland,germany or sweden where there are more rapes of the indiginous population than new york ,six times in fact.Islam offers its conquered peoples two choices,convert and pay jizyah(a tax upon non-muslims)who have absolutely no rights at all and must demonstrate thier subservience daily to thier masters,the alternative is death,this is the religion of "peace"do you really want your childs mind polluted with this filth?
Chris, says...
12:07pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Well Said Simon, people need to wake up and save themselves, their children ,our history and heritage or all will be just a byword in decades to come. Thankfully the BNP are voicing the frigthened cowtowed majority opinion as the bulk of the nation is so afraid and brainwashed by this marxist cabal that they are no longer able to speak as a nation. It is a shameful state of affairs and not one that the heroes of two world wars fought for, not just to let Militant Islam march in and disposess the very people whose tolerance and cultural heritage enabled them to come to this beautiful land in the first place.Britain Awake. Please, soon.
Valentine, says...
1:07pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Can some of your more educated readers please tell me if their was a Muslim SS division in the last war
Clive, says...
1:21pm Sat 23 Dec 06
I hope that they are also taught about atheism.
Dave B., says...
1:24pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Valentine wrote:Yes there was. It was a Waffen SS Divsion.
Can some of your more educated readers please tell me if their was a Muslim SS division in the last war
There is also evidence that Hitler was talking with Muslims in North Africa to help him with the 'Jewish problem'.
In fact almost all those who died defending Hitler's bunker were non-German. Most were Fascist French and Muslims.
Islam is creeping like a fetid veil across The West, and going for the young is the most powerful way of doing it.
The fact is they won't 'teach' them about the true face of Islam, just the waterered down PC version.
They won't teach them that the Quran says you can beat your women, or execute Gays and converts to Christianity or that all non-Muslims must either surrender themselves to Islam or die.
They won't be taught about the brutal, inter-Family murders of girls and forced marriages, the fact that under many Islamic/Sharia based cultures women are denied an education and are forbidden to drive. Or that Sharia based Iran just executed it's 117th homosexual in a year.
And as for 9/11 and 7/7 not being anything to do with Islam...well those that carried the attacks out would not agree.
The BNP are almost as rabidly homophobic as Islamists (and the devout Cathiolics/Anglicans) and are out and out racists.
They are also a bunch of fanatical Christians for the most part.
They are not welcome...
BUT they do indeed seem to be the only ones standing up to Islam's Jihad agenda on The West (in fact as we see in Africa...the whole world!).
Which is very sad indeed.
Dave B., says...
1:33pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Valentine wrote:More info here:
Can some of your more educated readers please tell me if their was a Muslim SS division in the last war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)
Jack, says...
1:40pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Of course the have been many atrocities done in the name of Islam, but don't forget the evils done in the name of the Christian faith. Colonialism, Crusades, the Ku Klux Klan and even Hitler professed a Christian faith. In order for schools to cooperate with the National Curriculum, there has to be a balance in what is taught in Religious Education, which means learning about each major religion.
Also, do parents seriously believe that schoolchildren will 'convert' to Islam, after reading about it in a textbook? What positive effect are you expecting in withdrawing your children from class? The only effect it will have is increased ignorance and greater tension between communities.
Also, do parents seriously believe that schoolchildren will 'convert' to Islam, after reading about it in a textbook? What positive effect are you expecting in withdrawing your children from class? The only effect it will have is increased ignorance and greater tension between communities.
D Clover, says...
1:49pm Sat 23 Dec 06
We have to really look at whats going on in this country and decide if thats what we want, if islam is to be allowed to contiue and perhaps dominate by the numbers of it beleivers then we need to address that, if we dont want that but islamic beleivers do then there is a conflict and this has to be resolved to do nothing or just debate it on here is of no use to anyone. If you political party is not dealing with the issues most important to you then challenge them if they dfo not respond to your liken them change your party. who will stop the islamic invasion of Britain? is the question you should be asking if you beleive that is whats going on, when you know the answer join that party and support them and you will them get what you initially wanted. easy isnt it. so stop blowing off sream and do something about it or shut up and get ready to kneel.
brian compton, says...
1:54pm Sat 23 Dec 06
i agree with one of the earlier comments "when in rome" i am sorry but we let them build mosques now they want it tought in schools NO!!! we have to stand up and be counted what are we all scared off they are humans as well.
Adrian Morgan, says...
1:58pm Sat 23 Dec 06
I think children should be taught about Islam, but critically - none of this PC "Islam is a religion f peace" nonsense. And they should also be made aware that the "prophet" Mohammed consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was only NINE years old. And they should be taught how Mohammed authorised the slaughter of 700 males of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in one afternoon. Islam abounds with exhortations to violence against unbelievers. If children were taught about Islam's history, they would understand why it encourages terrorism.
Dave, says...
2:13pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Jack wrote:History.
Of course the have been many atrocities done in the name of Islam, but don't forget the evils done in the name of the Christian faith. Colonialism, Crusades, the Ku Klux Klan and even Hitler professed a Christian faith. In order for schools to cooperate with the National Curriculum, there has to be a balance in what is taught in Religious Education, which means learning about each major religion.
Also, do parents seriously believe that schoolchildren will 'convert' to Islam, after reading about it in a textbook? What positive effect are you expecting in withdrawing your children from class? The only effect it will have is increased ignorance and greater tension between communities.
Who cares about the Crusades (Which were actually IN REPLY to murderous Islamic crusades) in 2006?
In fact that just shows how WE have evolved in The West as a people, as a religion and a society (despite the wrongs that do still exist)compared to Islam and it's followers who STILL act like it is the time of the Crusades!
Colonialism? For all the bad it also gave a lot of good.
And as for the hippie idology that all was well once the 'evil whites' had left you only have to look at the MASSIVE poverty, the disgusting 'caste system' slavery, the murdered baby girls and mutilated women who have disobeyed the family in INDIA in 2006.
And the butchery done by Black Africans to Black Africans a might add.
Simplistic reasoning.
The fact is that in 2006, Islam is unique in it's danger, backwardsness, hate and crusading intent to swamp the globe.
Islamists are, in such massive numbers, once again unique in their literal belief in holy texts in positions of power and influence.
Women are not being raped, tortured and murdered for daring to hold professional jobs under Christian rule.
Homsexuals are not being executed on their hundreds under Christian rule.
Teachers are not being hacked to bits for daring to educate girls under Christian rule.
Citizens of countries are not commiting traitorous acts of terrorism aginst their own people and societies under Christian rule.
Any backlash against Islam is entirely Islam's doing as well I might add.
Who in the Uk cared one way or the other about Islam before 9/11 and 7/7? And all the riots, protests, global terrorist acts and threats that have come in-between and since?
Muslims have themselves to blame for finally showing their true colours after being so flushed with success after 9/11, when they clebrated in cities around the World. Including the London they would later attack.
I am against all man-made religions, especially Catholicism, but I can also see the priorities and the real dangers. And that's Islam.
penhillbilly, says...
2:16pm Sat 23 Dec 06
very simple solution...kill 'em all and let god sort it out
penhillbilly, says...
2:26pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Once more unto the Breach, Deare friends, once more; Or close the Wall up with our English dead: In Peace, there's nothing so becomes a man, As modest stillnesse, and humilitie: But when the blast of Warre blowes in our eares, Then imitate the action of the Tyger: Stiffen the sinewes, commune up the blood, Disguise faire Nature with hard-fauour'd Rage: Then lend the Eye a terrible aspect: Let it pry through the portage of the Head, Like the Brasse Cannon: let the Brow o'rewhelme it, As fearefully, as doth a galled Rocke O're-hang and iutty his confounded Base, Swill'd with the wild and wastfull Ocean. Now set the Teeth, and stretch the Nosthrill wide, Hold hard the Breath, and bend vp euery Spirit To his full height. On, on, you Noblish English, Whose blood is fet from Fathers of Warre-proofe: Fathers, that like so many Alexanders, Haue in these parts from Morne till Euen fought, And sheath'd their Swords, for lack of argument. Dishonour not your Mothers: now attest, That those whom you call'd Fathers, did beget you. Be Coppy now to men of grosser blood, And teach them how to Warre. And you good Yeomen, Whose Lyms were made in England; shew vs here The mettell of your Pasture: let vs sweare, That you are worth your breeding: which I doubt not: For there is none of you so meane and base, That hath not Noble luster in your eyes. I see you stand like Grey-hounds in the slips, Straying vpon the Start. The Game's afoot: Follow your Spirit; and vpon this Charge, Cry, God for Harry, England, and Saint George
Colin, says...
3:33pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Thank you Muhammad Ali Jinnah for your post. It is good of you to confirm beyond doubt exactly what many in Britain have suspected for some time.
As for Islam being the religion of peace, a review of events around the world will show this to be a claim that is impossible to justify.
It should come as no surprise that the bleeding-heart liberalists want Islam taught in our schools. It is all part of their plan to destroy the fabric of this country.
As for Islam being the religion of peace, a review of events around the world will show this to be a claim that is impossible to justify.
It should come as no surprise that the bleeding-heart liberalists want Islam taught in our schools. It is all part of their plan to destroy the fabric of this country.
harry d, says...
4:21pm Sat 23 Dec 06
go to this web site (iamanenglishman.com or type uktabloid into a search engine to find out how bad this scum hole of a country is becoming.find out who is doing the grooming of young white english girls, yes youve guessed it.and also click on rouges gallery (iamanenglishman)frightening?
Iqbal the Anglo Saxon, says...
4:38pm Sat 23 Dec 06
There is nothing wrong per se to having religious education in schools that covers all religions. In fact it is to the benefit of Christian children to have an understanding of the Islamic Faith, so that they will more fully understand, when the time comes, what they are fighting for in defence of the their Christianity. I studied the Koran during my military sojourn in the Far East in the early sixties, mainly because I was always getting into trouble because of the way I treated followers of that faith. I had a pocket version that I would occasionally read to convince myself that was in there hadn't become a figment of my imagination. I eventualy gave that copy to a Muslim acquaintance of the family, although I must admit his lifestyle in no way was that of a follower. Having said that it is the responsibility of parents to ensure that all aspects are covered and not just an odd selection of the less evil parts.
Jack, says...
4:45pm Sat 23 Dec 06
As far as I am aware Dave, this debate is not about weighing up the injustices of both parties, and seeing who is worse. What I would like to know is how will children benefit from not learning about Islam in school? Learning about Islam does NOT equate to tolerating the behaviour of extremists.
CK, says...
4:47pm Sat 23 Dec 06
محمد البرادعي wrote:You think so do you? Get this. This is OUR country. YOU are a GUEST in our country, and you and your kind are now UNWELCOME GUESTS. You come here, sponge off the state, breed like rabbits then bite the hand that feeds you. You are an infestation that sooner or later will be got rid off, so don't get too cocky. You say that you are the religion of peace? I suggest you look up a dictionary and read the meaning of the word "peace". You're in for a shock! You don't know the meaning of the word.
Our children in infant schools are already beginning to outnumber the morally corrupt indigenous population of the UK, that is the future of Britain. Even without further immigration we will have your country off you. We are the religion of peace and to prove it we will take your country off you without going to war. The time when we have to show the Kaffur any respect in this land is coming to an end. As for the BNP we will have you in orange jump suits and appearing on Al Jazeera receiving Allah’s punishment, you know what I mean!
The British are an easy-going race - until we get roused, then we roar. We are also very determined and we don't give in easily. I also suggest you read some British history books. Others who have tried what you intend trying failed. Hitler being one of them.
Carry on the way you are doing and YOU and your kind will be removed from this country on the end of a bayonet.
You never know, I might be prodding you along.
Don't forget also that this government, who has bent over backwards to appease and accommodate the likes of you for their own selfish ends will not be in government much longer. What are you going to do then?
I suggest you book a one way ticket back from whence you came, or if you were born here, back to the country of your parents or grandparents origin.
Bye Now!!!
chris.w, says...
4:49pm Sat 23 Dec 06
zac smithers wrote:Islam spread far from its birthplace in the modern nation of Saudi Arabia. By AD1095, Muslim territory included land where Jesus Christ lived. Christians warriors of the era believed Christians, not Muslims, should control their holy lands.
ãÍãÏ ÇáÈÑÇÏÚí wrote: Our children in infant schools are already beginning to outnumber the morally corrupt indigenous population of the UK, that is the future of Britain. Even without further immigration we will have your country off you. We are the religion of peace and to prove it we will take your country off you without going to war. The time when we have to show the Kaffur any respect in this land is coming to an end. As for the BNP we will have you in orange jump suits and appearing on Al Jazeera receiving Allahs punishment, you know what I mean!Be VERY careful, it is not our idiot government that makes us one of the most powerful countries on earth, it is our people. Whilst our government may tolerate you people the time is rapidly coming to an end that the people of this country are going to tolerate you any further. Be careful not to wake the dragon, you will find out how weak and insignificant you really as you are driven into the sea and out of existence.
The Crusades were a series of wars initiated by Christians to win back their holy lands from Muslims..
They say History repeats itself so the next Date will Be AD2*** LETS JUST Wait and see this tolerant society is being pushed and pushed .
Lets do what the Muslims do act by the Book so eye for an eye etc..
The future looks very bleak for England but the lions will strike one day..
phitzy2, says...
4:52pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Muhammad Ali Jinnah wrote:Morally corrupt - yes a small proportion of any population has its problems - drugs etc but this is a MINORITY!!.
Chris wrote:The BNP is that the best you can do! They are nothing as I have already said the BNP we will have you in orange jump suits and appearing on Al Jazeera receiving Allah’s punishment, This country is moraly corrupt. The English people bring their children up on playstations fit for nothing but but collecting dole, stealing and sliding into drug addiction. Please don't act surpprised that we are taking your country off you. You need us after all someone has to work in the UK to support your drug fuelled bankrupt lifestyles. Search your harts you know it's true.
Well Said Simon, people need to wake up and save themselves, their children ,our history and heritage or all will be just a byword in decades to come. Thankfully the BNP are voicing the frigthened cowtowed majority opinion as the bulk of the nation is so afraid and brainwashed by this marxist cabal that they are no longer able to speak as a nation. It is a shameful state of affairs and not one that the heroes of two world wars fought for, not just to let Militant Islam march in and disposess the very people whose tolerance and cultural heritage enabled them to come to this beautiful land in the first place.Britain Awake. Please, soon.
However, lets look at your pathetic Islamic "Morals".
The highest proportion of unemployment is in the Muslim community sponging off us "immoral" westerners so wheres your logic and your morals above.
Muslim men rape women and children and actually do this more in this country to deliberately show disrepect as required by their Koran.
Muslim men subjugate women who they class as inferior.
They bury them up to their armpits stone them to death with jagged rocks.
They murder anyone who does not convert to Islam
They murder their own people in the attempt to kill westerners.
If a woman is raped they murder them for infidelity.
Wow you really are more moral than us westerners - how could i have thought otherwise.
Lastly, a small point, Muslims tend to smell as they don't use deoderant. A Muslim woman works in our local B&Q and when she is in the whole store reeks of B.O. Avoid the Burton Upon Trent B&Q if you value your nasal passages!!!!
DENNIS, says...
5:04pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Iqbal,what drugs are you taking?
mega, says...
6:25pm Sat 23 Dec 06
"Most cannot even speak "QUEENS ENGLISH""--
Err, are we talking us or them here, Jennie?
Err, are we talking us or them here, Jennie?
penhillbilly, says...
6:33pm Sat 23 Dec 06
if Islam is so great and is the religion to take over the world, why aren't there millions of islamic warriors invading Palestine/Gaza/Afghanistan etc,...?
OUT OF HAND, says...
6:37pm Sat 23 Dec 06
This is all getting out of hand. SWINDON ADVERTISER: ARE YOU HAPPY TO STIR UP HATRED? IS THIS WHAT YOU ARE AIMING TO ACHIEVE?
ADVER, says...
6:48pm Sat 23 Dec 06
OHHHH YES
JENNIE, says...
7:09pm Sat 23 Dec 06
"OUT OF HAND"
Why is this getting out of hand?? no one asked you to read or get involved. but as this is a free country at the moment you are entitled to your opinion. This is not hatred---it's a fact we can all live together if they stopped trying to change our ways and country and that is fact not hatred. We are christian and want to stay that way without being forced into their ways and beliefs. Or even to scared to have an opinion.
Why is this getting out of hand?? no one asked you to read or get involved. but as this is a free country at the moment you are entitled to your opinion. This is not hatred---it's a fact we can all live together if they stopped trying to change our ways and country and that is fact not hatred. We are christian and want to stay that way without being forced into their ways and beliefs. Or even to scared to have an opinion.
penhillbilly, says...
7:14pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Out of Hand...last i recall, we still had freedom of speech in this country,unlike some other "enlightened" countries around the world..if this website was in the middle east,would we still be allowed to debate the issue..?
Simon Dickinson, says...
7:15pm Sat 23 Dec 06
OUT OF HAND wrote:It's called open debate and democracy my friend, and it is thanks to the ruling marxist minority who have consistently silenced any opposition to their ill thought out policies, that we now find our entire national structure of freedoms and identity under threat as a result.
This is all getting out of hand. SWINDON ADVERTISER: ARE YOU HAPPY TO STIR UP HATRED? IS THIS WHAT YOU ARE AIMING TO ACHIEVE?
Charley, says...
7:40pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Join the Resistance....Spread the word.
www.the-resistance.co.uk
www.the-resistance.co.uk
harry d, says...
7:51pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Out of hand,get a life?
Chris Moran, says...
7:56pm Sat 23 Dec 06
We are christian and want to stay that way
thanks to the ruling marxist minority
These are people that say it's not out of hand! WE are Christian. You say Freedom of Speech but speak for us all (WE) - THAT'S NOT FREEDOM OF SPEECH - THAT'S FACISM!
As for ruling Marxist minority - you spread unrest for whose benefit?
To Harry D, says...
8:04pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Out of hand,get a life?
Go Harry Go. You sexy beast! You have a good life I can tell. Making postings on here at 7.50 on a Saturday night. I'm glad I'm like you... I'm off to look at my stamp collection...
Will you go out with me?
Beelzebub, says...
8:06pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Wow, if the posters here are a sample of the average Swindonian, I'm so very glad I don't live there. So far this topic has been a horrific example of low level literacy and damned ignorance. The fact that so many of you are talking about voting BNP is sickening, and only serves to remind me why democracy can be a bad idea. I personally don't consider ignorant white bigoted trash to be any better than anyone else, whatever their colour or daft beliefs.
See how you like THAT freedom of speech.
See how you like THAT freedom of speech.
a, says...
8:13pm Sat 23 Dec 06
i would certainly make sure my son does not learn islam,we are christian and brought up on christian beleif.islams are always complainging about our christion beliefs,so why should we allow the teaching of theirs. we get told to remove or bike helmets,hooded tops or hats,if we go into shops or post offices but it is okay for them to wear their veils to cover their faces which is also classed has intimidation for us as well if it is good for them it is good for us.if they don,t like it they should teach islam in their own country.
To Beelezebub, says...
8:16pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Sadly that's the reaction BNP want so they have an excuse.
It does show through that these are BNP people.
Many are like JENNIE e.g.
In denial and can't admit it. I don't belong there but they have a point? You are afraid to say what you really believe because you are uncomfortable with it...
It does show through that these are BNP people.
Many are like JENNIE e.g.
As for the BNP well I do not belong there but maybe they do have a point
In denial and can't admit it. I don't belong there but they have a point? You are afraid to say what you really believe because you are uncomfortable with it...
Angel, says...
8:17pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Mr Beelzebub, brush up on your grammer before you slate others.
As is quite obvious you are a recent immigrant/asylum seeker maybe we can make an allowance or are you already claiming?
As is quite obvious you are a recent immigrant/asylum seeker maybe we can make an allowance or are you already claiming?
To Angel, says...
8:20pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Hello Angel,
Will you marry me? You have anger in you, you are feisty.
Why so unhappy? I can help you. Talk to me, sexy.
Will you marry me? You have anger in you, you are feisty.
Why so unhappy? I can help you. Talk to me, sexy.
Angel/Beelzebub, says...
8:35pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Mr Beelzebub, brush up on your grammer before you slate others.
As is quite obvious you are a recent immigrant/asylum seeker maybe we can make an allowance or are you already claiming?
Angel if you work on your Queen's English (grammer?) I'll help Beelzebub. Is that a deal... As is? Angel, Where did you learn English? Not in UK you fraud!
ken bates, says...
8:44pm Sat 23 Dec 06
Islam
Circumcision to babies, beheading, slitting animals throats hatred for dogs hatred for whites, suicide bombers, stoning to death, paedophiles, a wicked faith
. No thanks
Circumcision to babies, beheading, slitting animals throats hatred for dogs hatred for whites, suicide bombers, stoning to death, paedophiles, a wicked faith
. No thanks
a, says...
8:56pm Sat 23 Dec 06
phitzy2 wrote:thankyou for the warning.about b&q and i totally agre with every word you say. a
Muhammad Ali Jinnah wrote:Morally corrupt - yes a small proportion of any population has its problems - drugs etc but this is a MINORITY!!. However, lets look at your pathetic Islamic \"Morals\". The highest proportion of unemployment is in the Muslim community sponging off us \"immoral\" westerners so wheres your logic and your morals above. Muslim men rape women and children and actually do this more in this country to deliberately show disrepect as required by their Koran. Muslim men subjugate women who they class as inferior. They bury them up to their armpits stone them to death with jagged rocks. They murder anyone who does not convert to Islam They murder their own people in the attempt to kill westerners. If a woman is raped they murder them for infidelity. Wow you really are more moral than us westerners - how could i have thought otherwise. Lastly, a small point, Muslims tend to smell as they don\'t use deoderant. A Muslim woman works in our local B&Q and when she is in the whole store reeks of B.O. Avoid the Burton Upon Trent B&Q if you value your nasal passages!!!!Chris wrote: Well Said Simon, people need to wake up and save themselves, their children ,our history and heritage or all will be just a byword in decades to come. Thankfully the BNP are voicing the frigthened cowtowed majority opinion as the bulk of the nation is so afraid and brainwashed by this marxist cabal that they are no longer able to speak as a nation. It is a shameful state of affairs and not one that the heroes of two world wars fought for, not just to let Militant Islam march in and disposess the very people whose tolerance and cultural heritage enabled them to come to this beautiful land in the first place.Britain Awake. Please, soon.The BNP is that the best you can do! They are nothing as I have already said the BNP we will have you in orange jump suits and appearing on Al Jazeera receiving Allah’s punishment, This country is moraly corrupt. The English people bring their children up on playstations fit for nothing but but collecting dole, stealing and sliding into drug addiction. Please don\'t act surpprised that we are taking your country off you. You need us after all someone has to work in the UK to support your drug fuelled bankrupt lifestyles. Search your harts you know it\'s true.
at---ten---shun!, says...
8:57pm Sat 23 Dec 06
to all you scare-mongering PC marxists.. England did not resort to fascist dictatorship following the illiberal state-of-emergency during WW2. The English people are naturally tolerant & culturally averse to such politics. But they will do what needs to be done, and that possibly may involve utilising the BNP as a tool to defeat a very toxic combination of marxist-left + naive-liberalism + islamofascism
Muhammad Ali Jinnah, says...
12:11am Sun 24 Dec 06
at---ten---shun! wrote:“But they will do what needs to be done, and that possibly may involve utilising the BNP as a tool to defeat a very toxic combination of Marxist-left + naive-liberalism + islamofascism”
to all you scare-mongering PC marxists.. England did not resort to fascist dictatorship following the illiberal state-of-emergency during WW2. The English people are naturally tolerant & culturally averse to such politics. But they will do what needs to be done, and that possibly may involve utilising the BNP as a tool to defeat a very toxic combination of marxist-left + naive-liberalism + islamofascism
Don’t make me laugh! You Kaffur are so stupid, your own government are so inept they will have destroyed the BNP long before they are any threat to me and my brothers. As my glorious brothers have proved we will die for our cause whereas you morally corrupt wont even lift your arrogant faces out of your pints to even vote. I despise you people, you make my skin crawl, you are truly the sons of monkeys and pigs. Your own future king knows we will rule this land that is why he will convert why don’t the rest of you wake up and smell the coffee, you’ve had your time the future belongs to us.
John, says...
12:48am Sun 24 Dec 06
The point everyone is missing with Islam, is this, it is every Politicians dream religion. It requires total obedience from its followers without question whilst using the state as a tool to enforce its laws and or ever changing edicts. Therefore you challenge it under pain of death. Converts are never accepted as true believers, they are tollerated and used. If this country were ever to become an Islamic state where exactly do you think any former Christians would fit in? Probably the same place as the Christians and other faiths being murdered, burned and driven out of their homes in the outer regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan. To understand Islam you need to start educating yourselves about it......it is truly a most savage faith, and not for my children.
john, says...
12:58am Sun 24 Dec 06
Muhammad Ali Jinnah wrote:LOLOL, can you speed up the dying for your cause bit it might ease the strain on the DSS, NHS and housing stock. You people will overstep the line pretty soon and then you will find out just how intollerant us normally tollerant people can be. Some of us can see whats comming.....and we are prepared.
at---ten---shun! wrote: to all you scare-mongering PC marxists.. England did not resort to fascist dictatorship following the illiberal state-of-emergency during WW2. The English people are naturally tolerant & culturally averse to such politics. But they will do what needs to be done, and that possibly may involve utilising the BNP as a tool to defeat a very toxic combination of marxist-left + naive-liberalism + islamofascism“But they will do what needs to be done, and that possibly may involve utilising the BNP as a tool to defeat a very toxic combination of Marxist-left + naive-liberalism + islamofascism” Don’t make me laugh! You Kaffur are so stupid, your own government are so inept they will have destroyed the BNP long before they are any threat to me and my brothers. As my glorious brothers have proved we will die for our cause whereas you morally corrupt wont even lift your arrogant faces out of your pints to even vote. I despise you people, you make my skin crawl, you are truly the sons of monkeys and pigs. Your own future king knows we will rule this land that is why he will convert why don’t the rest of you wake up and smell the coffee, you’ve had your time the future belongs to us.
at---ten---shun!, says...
12:59am Sun 24 Dec 06
Don’t make me laugh! You Kaffur are so stupid, your own government are so inept they will have destroyed the BNP long before they are any threat to me and my brothers. As my glorious brothers have proved we will die for our cause whereas you morally corrupt wont even lift your arrogant faces out of your pints to even vote. I despise you people, you make my skin crawl, you are truly the sons of monkeys and pigs. Your own future king knows we will rule this land that is why he will convert why don’t the rest of you wake up and smell the coffee, you’ve had your time the future belongs to us.
LOL.. all your base are belong to us... Is that what your trying to say?
If kaffur are so stupid.. then why is it that your ummah plague is still such a 3rd world non-entity?? Simply parasites, leeching off our judeo-christian culture that achieves near miracles. If we disappeared, you'd be back living in caves.
And don't worry... i envisage many an Englishman ready to help you along in dying for your cause.
LOL.. all your base are belong to us... Is that what your trying to say?
If kaffur are so stupid.. then why is it that your ummah plague is still such a 3rd world non-entity?? Simply parasites, leeching off our judeo-christian culture that achieves near miracles. If we disappeared, you'd be back living in caves.
And don't worry... i envisage many an Englishman ready to help you along in dying for your cause.
at---ten---shun!, says...
1:15am Sun 24 Dec 06
LOLOL, can you speed up the dying for your cause bit it might ease the strain on the DSS, NHS and housing stock. You people will overstep the line pretty soon and then you will find out just how intollerant us normally tollerant people can be. Some of us can see whats comming.....and we are prepared.
hehee! ... and then cant you just see em all whinging, and crying foul about about islamophobia... but by that time, their politically-correct protectorate will be consigned to history ... and the whining will fall on deaf ears.
hehee! ... and then cant you just see em all whinging, and crying foul about about islamophobia... but by that time, their politically-correct protectorate will be consigned to history ... and the whining will fall on deaf ears.
Jeff Miles, says...
1:54am Sun 24 Dec 06
We in Britain are now in a state of Dhimmitude, and the marxist lobby are helping Islam flourish here, there is a Marxist- Islamic pact here in Britain and only the likes of the BNP will sort this mess out!
Allah Akhbar, says...
1:59am Sun 24 Dec 06
you dirty unwashed kaffur scum..your women throw themselves at us, your people fall over themselves to support us, we take your dss benefits andspit on you, you ignorant filth. we laugh at you
usabikes, says...
2:23am Sun 24 Dec 06
The key difference between Christianity & Islam in their "violent histories" is that when Christianity was violent - as in the Crusades - it was in flat contradiction to the teachings of Christ, Paul and the New Testament. When Islam is violent, it's simply following its Scriptures & *IS BEING PERFECTLY AUTHENTIC*. If Christians become violent the whole world can point to the words of Jesus to "love your enemy" & "turn the other cheek". The average Muslim is woefully ignorant of their own faith & as such have little interest in jihad, even though they may carry a little of the persecution complex that is so apparent in their spokesmen. In the same way the average "Christian" in the West knows little of the Bible & doesn't take seriously the charge to follow Christ. These are the Westerners who are most likely to answer injustice with injustice. There is a further problem in that the West - even those Christians within the West who genuinely seek to follow Christ - will often not be able to stand idly by while Israel, for instance, gets wiped out by a nuclear capable Iran. This is what caused the Crusades. Peter the Hermit reported to Rome that 30,000 Christians had been killed and their land taken off them by the Musselmen. In justice, what should one do? At the time of WW2 we had the same answer: oppose the tyrant. But now? Its easy to get the Muslims off the West's back - simply withdraw all support for Israel or Kashmir or Chechneya & let them be brutalised. But how just is that? So on the macro scale there's a huge problem. But on the micro scale many Muslims often come to our wonderful countries having sufferred a great deal in their homelands - think of the Balkans. I've read that most Pakistanis in England are minority Ahmadis who are deliberately persecuted by the government & are not even permitted to be called real Muslims. The best thing you & I can do is to befriend them - invite them round for a Xmas meal - build some bridges & make some friends. They are people just like us. However, their "holy" books are no more divinely inspired than this newspaper. They deserve our pity & our prayers.
Muhammad Ali Jinnah, says...
2:25am Sun 24 Dec 06
Allah Akhbar wrote:Well said brother. They are so busy fighting amongst each other it would be rude not to take their land.
you dirty unwashed kaffur scum..your women throw themselves at us, your people fall over themselves to support us, we take your dss benefits andspit on you, you ignorant filth. we laugh at you
Ronald Hume, says...
4:06am Sun 24 Dec 06
I have just read this story. Can you imagine the future of Britain with these devils teaching our children their lies and deceit. At this rate a large percentage of our children will be duped just like Cat Stevens and converted to this satanic cult. Pray for our nation that we will be delivered of this evil.
Here is the article:
"Nasir Ashraf, a Christian stone mason, was brutally attacked by radical Muslims just outside Lahore. While working on the construction of a room at a school near Manga Mandi in Pakistan, Nasir took a break after becoming thirsty. He drew water and drank from a glass chained to a cemented public water tank next to a mosque, which was reserved for all poor people. Returning to the construction site, a Muslim man asked him, Why did you drink water from this glass since you are a Christian? The man accused Nasir of polluting the glass. The Muslim man yanked the glass off the iron chain, broke it and threw it in a garbage can. The man summoned other radical Muslims to the scene, furiously saying, This Christian polluted our glass. Hearing this, the incensed mob began beating Nasir, yelling that a Christian dog drank water from their glass.The radical Muslims encouraged bystanders to beat Nasir because it would be a good deed that would benefit them in heaven. The attackers pushed Nasir off a ledge onto the ground. The impact of the fall dislocated his shoulder and broke his collar bone in two places. This knocked Nasir unconscious and he did not regain his senses until he reached a clinic. A doctor told Nasir that some people had brought him there.Nasir's father took him home"
Here is the article:
"Nasir Ashraf, a Christian stone mason, was brutally attacked by radical Muslims just outside Lahore. While working on the construction of a room at a school near Manga Mandi in Pakistan, Nasir took a break after becoming thirsty. He drew water and drank from a glass chained to a cemented public water tank next to a mosque, which was reserved for all poor people. Returning to the construction site, a Muslim man asked him, Why did you drink water from this glass since you are a Christian? The man accused Nasir of polluting the glass. The Muslim man yanked the glass off the iron chain, broke it and threw it in a garbage can. The man summoned other radical Muslims to the scene, furiously saying, This Christian polluted our glass. Hearing this, the incensed mob began beating Nasir, yelling that a Christian dog drank water from their glass.The radical Muslims encouraged bystanders to beat Nasir because it would be a good deed that would benefit them in heaven. The attackers pushed Nasir off a ledge onto the ground. The impact of the fall dislocated his shoulder and broke his collar bone in two places. This knocked Nasir unconscious and he did not regain his senses until he reached a clinic. A doctor told Nasir that some people had brought him there.Nasir's father took him home"
tom, says...
6:49am Sun 24 Dec 06
The jihad continues bit by incremental bit, and people are still talking about equality and respect for other cultures, and the benifits of multiculturism. When will Europeans wake up?
JENNIE, says...
8:37am Sun 24 Dec 06
To Beelezebub on
I can assure you I am not BNP and like most I have an opinion which I am not allowed to speak because it offends your type. But you can say what you wamt and we are not allowed to take offence. As they say one rule for you and another for the british.
All we are saying is we do dont want our country turned into yours. And looking at most os the statement made but your religion is all hatered and threats. I would like to see were anyone that is against the change has made any threats to you. Unlike every statemenet from you. All we are saying is we want to keep this GREAT BRITIAN we have not said we cannot live together.
If you think that because I believe in that that I am a racist or belong to the BNP well you are very sad. But I can see why people are becoming with an attitude and threats like yours
Have a MERRY CHISTMAS IN OUR WONDERFUL COUNTRY
I can assure you I am not BNP and like most I have an opinion which I am not allowed to speak because it offends your type. But you can say what you wamt and we are not allowed to take offence. As they say one rule for you and another for the british.
All we are saying is we do dont want our country turned into yours. And looking at most os the statement made but your religion is all hatered and threats. I would like to see were anyone that is against the change has made any threats to you. Unlike every statemenet from you. All we are saying is we want to keep this GREAT BRITIAN we have not said we cannot live together.
If you think that because I believe in that that I am a racist or belong to the BNP well you are very sad. But I can see why people are becoming with an attitude and threats like yours
Have a MERRY CHISTMAS IN OUR WONDERFUL COUNTRY
JENNIE, says...
8:59am Sun 24 Dec 06
I do agree that this is now getting out of hand
It all started to we object to our kids being taught Islam lessons. T which we all have an opinion. What I would like to know is do they get taught CHRISTIANITY and do they have they choice of not to get taught. As that would be right they should have the choice. You should not force other peoples faith on to anyone and that includes christianity.
But maybe "Muhammad Ali Jinnah" should chill out what a way to think and you wonder why we feel the way we do very very sad.
It all started to we object to our kids being taught Islam lessons. T which we all have an opinion. What I would like to know is do they get taught CHRISTIANITY and do they have they choice of not to get taught. As that would be right they should have the choice. You should not force other peoples faith on to anyone and that includes christianity.
But maybe "Muhammad Ali Jinnah" should chill out what a way to think and you wonder why we feel the way we do very very sad.
JENNIE YOU ARE SAD, says...
9:09am Sun 24 Dec 06
Why rise to these postings, Jennie? They are winding you up and clearly you cannot rise above it. They're pushing your buttons...
JENNIE, says...
9:59am Sun 24 Dec 06
So You Scared to put your name or you hiding behind a vail ?????
JENNIE, says...
10:01am Sun 24 Dec 06
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH TALK MAKE COMMENTS TO YOURSELF THIS IS GETTING STUPID
BYE BYE
HAPPY CHRISTAMAS EVERYONE
BYE BYE
HAPPY CHRISTAMAS EVERYONE
paul D, says...
10:05am Sun 24 Dec 06
Surely I am not the only one to think perhaps this thread has been hijacked by the BNP - the names used for some of the posts are patently made up - perhaps the Adver likes creating scandals. I am all for free speech but this is pushing things too far. Allowing immoderates the opportunity to peddle their obvious bull sh*t is offensive to the majority. By all means lets have the debate, but in sensible terms. Hate is not good no matter whether your faith is chritian or muslim/islam/sikh/buddist.
You should all know better.
Remember this is a sacred time for Christians and the majority of the british public - let's not spoil things by being pathetic. Celebrate and enjoy
Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
You should all know better.
Remember this is a sacred time for Christians and the majority of the british public - let's not spoil things by being pathetic. Celebrate and enjoy
Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
penhillbilly, says...
10:19am Sun 24 Dec 06
Paul D...what makes you think that everyone who has posted here is a member of the BNP?, maybe they are just p***ed off at being treated like second class citizens in their own country,we may be the silent Majority stating that enough is enough."don't take kindness for weekness"
Peace,Pasties & zoider..ooh arr..
Peace,Pasties & zoider..ooh arr..
john, says...
10:51am Sun 24 Dec 06
paul D wrote:ROFLMFAO!!!!
Surely I am not the only one to think perhaps this thread has been hijacked by the BNP - the names used for some of the posts are patently made up - perhaps the Adver likes creating scandals. I am all for free speech but this is pushing things too far. Allowing immoderates the opportunity to peddle their obvious bull sh*t is offensive to the majority. By all means lets have the debate, but in sensible terms. Hate is not good no matter whether your faith is chritian or muslim/islam/sikh/buddist. You should all know better. Remember this is a sacred time for Christians and the majority of the british public - let's not spoil things by being pathetic. Celebrate and enjoy Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Do people who speak their minds and air their fears on this issue naturally belong to the BNP Paul?
I think not and thats going to be the problem for the Islamo-Marxist pact attempting to strip this country of it's identity.
I sence in your posts the same sort of misguided watered down self serving level of liberal tollerance that has led us into this sh*t state.
Maybe you'll be lucky this year and someone gives you a backbonefor Chritmas!
Free Speech is exactly what it says on the tin, some will like it, some wont. We all have opinions and its not for any politician to decide whose we listen to and whose we dont.
Craig, says...
11:08am Sun 24 Dec 06
For a thousand years Muslims have eyed up Northern Europe with great envy, Winston Churchill warned that if we are not careful "the Mohammedans will take Europe with help from traitors within", he said that in 1899. this current plan started with the drugging of the indigenous population with Heroine and now cocaine and the lacks laws on Alcohol etc, all I say is wake up and don't let these red ba**ards hand over a once great country like Britain to these third world thugs WAKE UP!
David Smith, says...
11:36am Sun 24 Dec 06
The BNP is a perfectly legal political party. People have every right to be a member, or vote for them, if they wish.
I'm afraid things have gone too far for bleeding heart liberals and Marxists to simply sneer at the BNP. They are gaining more ground day by day and many people are now more than happy to align themselves with the party.
It's like the term 'racist'. So many people accuse anyone white of being racist the moment they don't get their own way that many people I know simply shrug and say 'And?'
Why on earth should Muslims (which isn't even a race) think they can call non-Muslims every name under the sun and be as derogatory as possible but then expect every one else to be pleasant about them?
And as for calling 'Kaffurs' unwashed... have you ever been to Broad Street? The entire road stinks.
Some people above have commented on the 'hatred' shown in this thread. Again, overly emotive language to describe people simply being fed up to the back teeth of immigrants who are happy to live here, happy to take benefits, happy to take free housing and happy to take the protection offered by our ludicrous government while at the same time holding us in contempt.
I think you'll find people don't 'hate' Muslims, they just have the same utter disrespect for them as they do for us.
I'm afraid things have gone too far for bleeding heart liberals and Marxists to simply sneer at the BNP. They are gaining more ground day by day and many people are now more than happy to align themselves with the party.
It's like the term 'racist'. So many people accuse anyone white of being racist the moment they don't get their own way that many people I know simply shrug and say 'And?'
Why on earth should Muslims (which isn't even a race) think they can call non-Muslims every name under the sun and be as derogatory as possible but then expect every one else to be pleasant about them?
And as for calling 'Kaffurs' unwashed... have you ever been to Broad Street? The entire road stinks.
Some people above have commented on the 'hatred' shown in this thread. Again, overly emotive language to describe people simply being fed up to the back teeth of immigrants who are happy to live here, happy to take benefits, happy to take free housing and happy to take the protection offered by our ludicrous government while at the same time holding us in contempt.
I think you'll find people don't 'hate' Muslims, they just have the same utter disrespect for them as they do for us.
Davina, says...
12:42pm Sun 24 Dec 06
It's Christmas and the Muslims are showing their true, hate-filled colours.
keith, says...
1:43pm Sun 24 Dec 06
Religion is the biggest cause of war that there has ever been.since there has been a god millions of people have died in his name.its time to scrap all religion
Admin, says...
2:10pm Sun 24 Dec 06
Please adhere to the topic in question, especially you Muslim bastards.
Comments will be deleted if bad language is used...Admin
Comments will be deleted if bad language is used...Admin
Abdul, says...
4:18pm Sun 24 Dec 06
If eople want their children to be removed from RE lessons when they teach Islam then that is more or a refection on those parents than on Muslims.
By the way... if Islam is so bad why are white people converting to Islam all this time in the west through their own free will? and the highest rate of Muslim converts in the west is women aged 18-30.... looks like some people can see through your racist ignorance.
By the way... if Islam is so bad why are white people converting to Islam all this time in the west through their own free will? and the highest rate of Muslim converts in the west is women aged 18-30.... looks like some people can see through your racist ignorance.
at---ten---shun!, says...
4:42pm Sun 24 Dec 06
By the way... if Islam is so bad why are white people converting to Islam all this time in the west through their own free will? and the highest rate of Muslim converts in the west is women aged 18-30.... looks like some people can see through your racist ignorance.
well dear abdul, it would seem that many of my white brethren are somewhat feeble-minded, and unable to think critically. They are likely to be childish, rebellious types (picture Yvonne Ridley for a moment), who think they are sticking it to the *man* by adopting that supremacist cult which the average westerner finds repugnant. You really shouldnt imagine that the conversions indicate any commendable qualities in islam itself.
BTW.. for the umpteenth time... islam is not a race, its an ideology. I like brown asian people, especially Indian professional types .I have many of them as my friends. But islam sucks,... very much indeed.
Philip, says...
5:07pm Sun 24 Dec 06
Have you noiticed that when a Musim rapes a western woman or murders a westerner etc they are always referred to as Asians??
Is this the BBC being PC. Asia covers Japan, China, India, Pakistan etc.
If I was a good non Muslim Asian I would be getting very offended if I was always classed with the Pakistani Musims that cause much of the problems in this country.
It's about time that these vile criminals where not given the anonymity of an entire continent. Lets start getting to the root of the problem. Once that is publicly aired the spineless, naive do gooders will start to wake up to the threat from Islam which in this country tends to be Pakistani Muslims although not exclusively as recent news shows.
Is this the BBC being PC. Asia covers Japan, China, India, Pakistan etc.
If I was a good non Muslim Asian I would be getting very offended if I was always classed with the Pakistani Musims that cause much of the problems in this country.
It's about time that these vile criminals where not given the anonymity of an entire continent. Lets start getting to the root of the problem. Once that is publicly aired the spineless, naive do gooders will start to wake up to the threat from Islam which in this country tends to be Pakistani Muslims although not exclusively as recent news shows.
Natalia, says...
5:16pm Sun 24 Dec 06
Abdul wrote:Well Abdul the reason is groomong. Male Muslims target white females with promises, swet talk, presents etc.
If eople want their children to be removed from RE lessons when they teach Islam then that is more or a refection on those parents than on Muslims. By the way... if Islam is so bad why are white people converting to Islam all this time in the west through their own free will? and the highest rate of Muslim converts in the west is women aged 18-30.... looks like some people can see through your racist ignorance.
THen once under their spell they naively convert and are forced to convert by threat of violence to them or to the females family. Once trapped they can't leave, again for fear for their safety and their families safety.
It is in the Koran that Mulsims can use and abuse non muslims for their pleasure and to humiliate them. Don't forget your evil so called prophet was a paedofile. So you can't really expect much from an evil cult like Islam when it is based on the evil life of mohammed.
So in summary white females convert mostly through ignorance and fear of violnce from this "peaceful" Islam.
Crawl back under a rock Abdul.
Dick Norman, says...
6:31pm Sun 24 Dec 06
I wonder where the Lead Member for Education Cllr Garry Perkins is at the moment? Believe it or not he is on his 10th trip this year to an Arab, Muslim Country. Presumably getting ideas on how to handle this particular problem. Well at least I hope he is, because these postings are extremely serious and a policy statement needs to made as to exactly what our Council's position is on this very important issue.
usabikes, says...
7:32pm Sun 24 Dec 06
On conversions: Islam is hard at work in the prisons in the US & other countries trying to convert inmates. Many conversions come from these men as well as girls who marry a muslim man - these "automatically" become Muslims. It should be noted that no Christian who becomes a Muslim gets murdered, whereas the Quran and the traditions of the Prophet (the Sunna or Hadith) clearly dictate the death penalty for "apostates". Malaysia (held up by Oz PM John Howard as a "model" & a bridge between Islam & the West) recently held a conference where they discussed what should be done with converts from islam. Opinions varied from the death penalty to gaol terms - and on the most liberal end - 3 months of "re-education" for the subject with a "good Muslim family" after which they would be permitted to re-evaluate their confession. The PhD who was on the liberal end of the discussion said the death penalty is not appropriate "at this time". Again, we don't know if he meant that one day it will/should be or whether he was too scared to annoy the Islamists and risk getting killed for denying the dictates of Sharia. Just don't beilieve the propaganda that "Islam is a religion of peace" and "there is no compulsion in religion". Muslim apologists take care to highlight the - very few - tolerant texts of the Quran from Mohammad's early peaceful period in Mecca before he was forced to move to Medina. There is a problem in that there are contradictory teachings in the Quran which Islam solves by taking the later verses to supercede the earlier (a process called "abrogation"). This confuses the rest of us cos we are told of the peaceful bits but not stuff like Sura 9 - which, by date, is the very last chapter of the Quran - which is one of the bloodiest & least tolerant of them all is now the directing teaching on how to treat non-believers. The Sura includes the "sword verse" in which the Prophet directs his followers to kill and crucify unbelievers wherever they find them. Sept 11 1683 was the day when the King of Poland's army turned back the Muslim armies from the gates of Vienna on their last Jihad against Europe. Do you think Bin Laden was making some sort of point by choosing this date in 2001? Christians have no choice but to love these people & try to lead them to the Living Word of God - Jesus the Messiah. As for religion being the cause of most deaths and wars - well factually Communism has killed far more than any "religious" wars although the way things are going that looks about to change.
john, says...
8:36pm Sun 24 Dec 06
If anyone wants to teach children the truth about Islam and its followers, where it been and where it's going just visit here www,tellthechildrenthetruth.com
I think you'll find Islam and its followers have more in common with Nazis than the BNP.
I think you'll find Islam and its followers have more in common with Nazis than the BNP.
Dave B., says...
9:19pm Sun 24 Dec 06
john wrote:They do indeed. Or at least as much.
If anyone wants to teach children the truth about Islam and its followers, where it been and where it's going just visit here www,tellthechildrenthetruth.com
I think you'll find Islam and its followers have more in common with Nazis than the BNP.
As it is (as they have done for a thousand years) they are killing each other off in Iraq, so hopefully the Shia and Saudi will fight the Sunni's and Iran and they will all lose.
Islam is a thousand year step backwards in evolution.
Edward Humphreys, says...
9:29pm Sun 24 Dec 06
For some time now the government, past and present have let the "British" people down. And this is part of the mess we have in out "multicultural society".
pitbull, says...
1:31am Mon 25 Dec 06
JUST DONT SAY YOU'RE ENGLISH; goodbye to my england - so long old friend.your days are numbered,being brought to an end.to be scotish,irish or welsh,thats fine.the french & the germans may call them self such,as may norwegians,the swedes and the dutch.you can say you are russian or maybe a dane but don't say your english ever again.at broadcasting house that word is taboo,in brussels they've scrapped it,in parliameni too.even schools are affected;staff do as they're told,they mustn't teach children old english of old.writers like kipling,milton and shakespeare.why are schools not teaching them-something to fear? how about adgincourt,hastings,arnhem or mons,when england lost hosts of very brave sons? we are not europeans,how can that be?europe is miles away over the sea.we're the english from england,let's all be proud,stand up and be counted-shout it out loud.let's tell our government-and brussels too.we're proud of our heritage and red white and blue.fly the flag of st george or the union jack let world know-WE WANT OUR ENGLAND BACK
Muhammad Ali Jinnah, says...
1:48am Mon 25 Dec 06
Will people stop going on about the bnp, they are nothing, all the nationalists in this country fight with each other, its all you people do. I wouldnt mind but you are so bad at it. Even with all your military might we will take Iraq back. You do not have the stomach for real war, a handfull of body bags come back on a plane and you cry like babys. I went to one of your pathetic websites which is full of lies and all you can do is bleat like goats. The only good thing on there is what we will do to the bnp if they are still around when we take power http://www.muslimsout.org/videos/Videos.htm
Dave B., says...
6:35am Mon 25 Dec 06
Muhammad? Hmmm...Never liked that name for some reason.
Raped, stoned or tortured any good women lately?
You know those same women who dare to educate themselves, get jobs, or refuse to marry the sick old Islamist she gets forced to marry.
You have a happy Christmas now you inbred, knuckle-dragging, fanatasist fanatic.
Raped, stoned or tortured any good women lately?
You know those same women who dare to educate themselves, get jobs, or refuse to marry the sick old Islamist she gets forced to marry.
You have a happy Christmas now you inbred, knuckle-dragging, fanatasist fanatic.
Lee Harper, says...
7:29am Mon 25 Dec 06
I thought we lived in a country where we have the freedom to chose, If a parent does not want their child exposed to Islam or Judism that's their right. All this PC rubbish is getting out of hand, If you are white and dare to say something that goes against the 'Norm' you are classed as a racist or facist, what happened to expressing ideas instead of following blindly. We are now told what to think and to say in case we upset some asylum seeker who came to OUR country for a better life. If you don't like OUR way of life in Great Britian please drive to Heathrow and LEAVE, Go back to your own country that you fled from. And to those who say 'But I was born here' then stop complaining about our freedom of speech that our grandfathers fought and died to preserve. They are many flights from the many airports here that can take you back to where you on heritage started. Just remember that here you are allowed to wear what you like say what you like, its our RIGHT. so all you non Anglo-Saxon's who came here to escape to a better way of life stop complaining or GO HOME.
Trickey, says...
8:03am Mon 25 Dec 06
Rivers of blood. Time for England to bring an end to the Muslim hordes.
Jesus, says...
9:10am Mon 25 Dec 06
To all cristians have a very happy cristmas and a happy new year,to the hoards of muslims think about going back to the **** holes from where you came.
Simon Stokes, says...
12:23pm Mon 25 Dec 06
Sadly this article and the comments that follow just highlight the problems we all face in the future. Equality and diversity dont really exist. We live in a country where we spend millions of pounds policing sporting events because we cannot trust opposing "fans" not to beat 7 bells of crap out of each other, what chance do we have with deep seated religions accepting one another! The PC culture and the contradiction in terms "human rights act" both serve to pander to the minorities whilst forgetting the wishes of the majority in this so called democratic society. Thers is good and bad in all religions, cultures, races, etc, and deep down eveyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong, which means we will never be able to live alongside each other. Each country should keep its identity and those living in it should respect and embrace its culture and heritage rather than complaining about it and wanting to change it. Anyone who doesnt like this country is free to leave at anytime, I dont work hard and pay my taxes to pay for people who want me and my way of life eradicated from the face of the earth. If they are not tolerant of me, why should they expect me to be tolerant of them. Scrap the ludicrous human rights act and lets have a common sense act where judges and the police are not scared to make honest decisions based on justice as they are terrified they will be sued for breaching human rights. If its truly a free country, then parents should be free to pull their children from any class they wish, but of course it isnt free as someone else always knows better!!! We need to sort this out before its too late and we are all wiped from the face of this planet by those who preach tolerance and peace, but have no intention of adhering to their own words. intention of.
Angharad, says...
3:44pm Mon 25 Dec 06
"My boys"
Enjoy -
http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_headline=mcdeal-helped-kriss-s-killers-%26method=full%26objectid=18321815%26siteid=64736-name_page.html
Enjoy -
http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_headline=mcdeal-helped-kriss-s-killers-%26method=full%26objectid=18321815%26siteid=64736-name_page.html
john, says...
8:09pm Mon 25 Dec 06
Simon Stokes wrote:Lol, ever heard of Tribalism, Simon? Thats what we have at work here at its very worst.
Sadly this article and the comments that follow just highlight the problems we all face in the future. Equality and diversity dont really exist. We live in a country where we spend millions of pounds policing sporting events because we cannot trust opposing "fans" not to beat 7 bells of crap out of each other, what chance do we have with deep seated religions accepting one another! The PC culture and the contradiction in terms "human rights act" both serve to pander to the minorities whilst forgetting the wishes of the majority in this so called democratic society. Thers is good and bad in all religions, cultures, races, etc, and deep down eveyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong, which means we will never be able to live alongside each other. Each country should keep its identity and those living in it should respect and embrace its culture and heritage rather than complaining about it and wanting to change it. Anyone who doesnt like this country is free to leave at anytime, I dont work hard and pay my taxes to pay for people who want me and my way of life eradicated from the face of the earth. If they are not tolerant of me, why should they expect me to be tolerant of them. Scrap the ludicrous human rights act and lets have a common sense act where judges and the police are not scared to make honest decisions based on justice as they are terrified they will be sued for breaching human rights. If its truly a free country, then parents should be free to pull their children from any class they wish, but of course it isnt free as someone else always knows better!!! We need to sort this out before its too late and we are all wiped from the face of this planet by those who preach tolerance and peace, but have no intention of adhering to their own words. intention of.
Funny old world, Muslims telling us they respect our Christmas yet i counted 20 or so "corner" shops open all day today.
As for teaching kids about Islam, its teachers who are the root of this "tollerant attitude" problem, the sad sods only see the good in people or worse work towards the dark agenda promulgated by Marxist/Lib/Lab politicians.
They see watery eyed children, and miss the fact that every extremist was once one.
usabikes, says...
8:13pm Mon 25 Dec 06
Ignorance is no defence, neither does it help to build bridges of understanding. There are a number of books that are of use. As a post-graduate student studying Islam I would recommend this DVD as being factually accurate & fair if, frankly, for the average man in the street, very scarey:~ www.whatthewestneedstoknow.com/index.asp Its a little slow but in 98 minutes it covers all the bases & is pretty much in agreement with everything I have read on the subject. Furthermore http://www.barnabasfund.org/home.php is the website of Dr. Patrick Sookhdeo who is a convert from Islam to Christ and lectures at the military officers training college in Britain on Islam. He also advises the British govt & secret service on Islam. This guy knows his stuff. The website is concerned primarily with the persecution of Christians throughout the world & the problem of freedom of speech, conscience and information in the West. There is a link to many books to help in understanding Islam. Please, inform yourselves and your children. Ignorance is not bliss.
G. Chirgwin, says...
9:07pm Mon 25 Dec 06
It is interesting to see how many comments have been made about this article. This in itself says a lot about the underlying concerns of the average Brit. What really disappoints me is that the comments have turned into vindictive, personal attacks. There are many examples of correspondents venting their anger and fears on each other. Both Christians and Muslims are fueling the debate with ignorant and detrimental rascist comments. This is a sad reflection on the state of multi-culturaliam in the UK at present. Peace to you all.
john, says...
9:35pm Mon 25 Dec 06
G. Chirgwin wrote:Well, well, a serial fence sitter if ever i saw one. The problem you seem to have missed is that multiculturalism is, by New Labours own admissions, a failed attempt at social engineering. The debris of which is Islam in the UK, then lo and behold the indeginous population dont want it and politician try to appease everyone but the darker truth is that they really want it. Islam is every politicians dream religion....just think about it.
It is interesting to see how many comments have been made about this article. This in itself says a lot about the underlying concerns of the average Brit. What really disappoints me is that the comments have turned into vindictive, personal attacks. There are many examples of correspondents venting their anger and fears on each other. Both Christians and Muslims are fueling the debate with ignorant and detrimental rascist comments. This is a sad reflection on the state of multi-culturaliam in the UK at present. Peace to you all.
Quote "Some Muslims have got the idea they have to hide the truth, and thats very sad People should know it from the primary sources and not be misled by politically correct teachers who dont know the reality of Islam." Unquote.
Pastor D Scot.
And there you have it.
at---ten---shun!, says...
12:41am Tue 26 Dec 06
the level of response in the comments here, re: what would on the surface seem a minor incident, is greatly encouraging.
All is not lost, and there seems to be a huge pressure-cooker of repressed public anger ready to explode... to take the necessary measures in sorting out the awful underlying situation of multi-culti & human-rights nonsense.
All is not lost, and there seems to be a huge pressure-cooker of repressed public anger ready to explode... to take the necessary measures in sorting out the awful underlying situation of multi-culti & human-rights nonsense.
Philip, says...
9:08am Tue 26 Dec 06
Here is an article from the Telegraph. Do we wants our children taught about a cult "Islam" whose author Mohammed was a paedophile and whose followers seem to have a high proportion of paedophiles amongst them???
Police investigate child abuse in northern town
By Nigel Bunyon
Last Updated: 2:03am GMT 21/12/2006
A major investigation into the alleged sexual abuse of young white girls by predominantly Asian men has been launched by police and childcare agencies.
So far detectives in Oldham, Greater Manchester, have arrested 20 men, five of whom have been charged with offences that include abduction and rape. However, police expect other suspects to be held in the coming weeks.
advertisement
Both Oldham Council and Greater Manchester Police have emphasised that they have discovered no evidence of an organised paedophile ring.
The phenomenon appears to be largely cultural, with mainly young Asian men allegedly preying on vulnerable girls they meet in and around the town centre.
Police suspect the victims some of them as young as 12, the rest up to the age of 17 are being groomed over a period of months and sometimes years.
In some cases the men allegedly give them such presents as mobile phones, money and clothes .
The girls often regard the men as their boyfriends. However, as the relationship develops some of the abusers allegedly coerce them into having sex .
Police sources say that although both the abusers and their victims come from a variety of ethnic groups, the phenomenon is founded within Oldhams Pakistani community.
With Pakistani girls generally determined to remain virgins until they are married, young men in the community have tended to seek out white girls for sex.
"We often find that these men are smartly dressed and running around in expensive cars, said a police source. It tends to be a lot easier them to impress the girls theyre looking for than unemployed white lads with no money.
Ruth Baldwin, director of the local councils directorate for children, young people and families, refused to give details of the ethnic mix, claiming that to do so might prejudice future trials. But she insisted that both abusers and their victims were from a variety of backgrounds.
The common thread among the girls was that they had low self-esteem and felt in need of love and affection.
Some have been abused at a time they were in local authority care.
Mrs Baldwin said the abusers were in their twenties, thirties, forties and, in one case, beyond. Police insist that the majority are at the younger end of the spectrum.
The catalyst for the investigation was the claims by four girls earlier this year that they had been abused.
As many as 20 girls - some as young as 12 - are thought to have been abused by older men who buy them gifts and pose as their "boyfriends", before turning the relationship sexual.
More than 20 people have already been arrested, and five people have been charged with offences including abduction and rape.
Greater Manchester Police have described the abuse as a major problem but say they have no evidence that it is the work of an organised paedophile ring.
The abusers typically prey on girls they do not know, approaching them in public places. They offer gifts of mobile phones and electronic gadgets to gain their victims' trust, before plying them with drink and drugs.
It is alleged that the girls - a small number of whom are in local authority care - end up being physically harmed or forced into sex.
The joint inquiry is being carried out by police, Oldham council, Oldham Primary Care Trust and the charity Barnardos.
Police investigate child abuse in northern town
By Nigel Bunyon
Last Updated: 2:03am GMT 21/12/2006
A major investigation into the alleged sexual abuse of young white girls by predominantly Asian men has been launched by police and childcare agencies.
So far detectives in Oldham, Greater Manchester, have arrested 20 men, five of whom have been charged with offences that include abduction and rape. However, police expect other suspects to be held in the coming weeks.
advertisement
Both Oldham Council and Greater Manchester Police have emphasised that they have discovered no evidence of an organised paedophile ring.
The phenomenon appears to be largely cultural, with mainly young Asian men allegedly preying on vulnerable girls they meet in and around the town centre.
Police suspect the victims some of them as young as 12, the rest up to the age of 17 are being groomed over a period of months and sometimes years.
In some cases the men allegedly give them such presents as mobile phones, money and clothes .
The girls often regard the men as their boyfriends. However, as the relationship develops some of the abusers allegedly coerce them into having sex .
Police sources say that although both the abusers and their victims come from a variety of ethnic groups, the phenomenon is founded within Oldhams Pakistani community.
With Pakistani girls generally determined to remain virgins until they are married, young men in the community have tended to seek out white girls for sex.
"We often find that these men are smartly dressed and running around in expensive cars, said a police source. It tends to be a lot easier them to impress the girls theyre looking for than unemployed white lads with no money.
Ruth Baldwin, director of the local councils directorate for children, young people and families, refused to give details of the ethnic mix, claiming that to do so might prejudice future trials. But she insisted that both abusers and their victims were from a variety of backgrounds.
The common thread among the girls was that they had low self-esteem and felt in need of love and affection.
Some have been abused at a time they were in local authority care.
Mrs Baldwin said the abusers were in their twenties, thirties, forties and, in one case, beyond. Police insist that the majority are at the younger end of the spectrum.
The catalyst for the investigation was the claims by four girls earlier this year that they had been abused.
As many as 20 girls - some as young as 12 - are thought to have been abused by older men who buy them gifts and pose as their "boyfriends", before turning the relationship sexual.
More than 20 people have already been arrested, and five people have been charged with offences including abduction and rape.
Greater Manchester Police have described the abuse as a major problem but say they have no evidence that it is the work of an organised paedophile ring.
The abusers typically prey on girls they do not know, approaching them in public places. They offer gifts of mobile phones and electronic gadgets to gain their victims' trust, before plying them with drink and drugs.
It is alleged that the girls - a small number of whom are in local authority care - end up being physically harmed or forced into sex.
The joint inquiry is being carried out by police, Oldham council, Oldham Primary Care Trust and the charity Barnardos.
Steve, says...
9:25am Tue 26 Dec 06
I live in a Muslim country, 150 metres from the mosque, & experience at first-hand the true psychotic nature of Islam. 6 hours a day, yes 6 hours, spent going to / praying at / coming from the mosque. With that amount of brainwashing, the mystery is that there are so few suicide bombers, not so many. It's a religion based on fear (of your co-religionists, if anyone says you're a Bad Muslim that could well be your death sentence), on the oppression of women, and on killing anyone who disagrees. The answer to everything is death! This pathetic bunch of garbage is the enemy of everything that makes me tick as a Westerner. They are all in denial about the extent of the stupidity and evil of Islam, hard to see how people can kill themselves and others in the name of this rubbish.
harry, says...
10:21am Tue 26 Dec 06
Philip,if you go to the bnp websight or toutube videos youll see this has been known about for a very long time even years,indeed bnp members for that erea have even foworded evidence to the local council members and also the police which allways seemed to fall on death ears, even the local press seem to have tried to keep the information from the public possibly as not to offend or upset the asian community,One rule for them and one rule for us? As you can see from your own letter even the councils directorate for children Ruth baldwin will not admit the ethnic mix involved,If you go to the websight uktabloid you will see a lot of other things they (the pc brigade)try too hide from the good people of this country,or go to the websight iamaenglishman.com and click on rouges gallery to see the names of men who are not from these shores who have raped and murdered old age pensioners and children and try to explain why we have never heard of them?
Derek, says...
11:53am Tue 26 Dec 06
One member leaving the labour party every 20 minutes,
the tide is turning?
the tide is turning?
abdul, says...
1:32pm Tue 26 Dec 06
There were no credible answers as to why Islam is the fasting growing religion in the UK with thousands of people converting to Islam all the time the majority being women aged between 18-30.
You can rant as much as you like on this forum but is does not change a thing in the real world.
The fact is that despite the media frenzy on Islam and Blair/Straw acting like the BNP, normal people are not as ignorant as some of the people on this thread People dont trust the government who led this country to war and killed 650,000 civilians based on a dodgy dossier and there are still no WMDs the irony is that the more the Govt and some of the sad people rant on this forum, the more awareness this creates of Islam in general and the more intelligent people who search a bit further actually end up with a better view of Islam. Therefore this policy is actually backfiring as is full of propaganda.
Islam is established on clear proofs and thats why so many people are embracing it. However the growth of Islam and the fact that there is no clear consensus (even amounts leading British thinkers) on what Britishness actually means should not a source of fear for people. The thing that should make people afraid is the foreign policy of this country over the last 100 years which has made us all more unsafe.
You can rant as much as you like on this forum but is does not change a thing in the real world.
The fact is that despite the media frenzy on Islam and Blair/Straw acting like the BNP, normal people are not as ignorant as some of the people on this thread People dont trust the government who led this country to war and killed 650,000 civilians based on a dodgy dossier and there are still no WMDs the irony is that the more the Govt and some of the sad people rant on this forum, the more awareness this creates of Islam in general and the more intelligent people who search a bit further actually end up with a better view of Islam. Therefore this policy is actually backfiring as is full of propaganda.
Islam is established on clear proofs and thats why so many people are embracing it. However the growth of Islam and the fact that there is no clear consensus (even amounts leading British thinkers) on what Britishness actually means should not a source of fear for people. The thing that should make people afraid is the foreign policy of this country over the last 100 years which has made us all more unsafe.
Angharad, says...
1:43pm Tue 26 Dec 06
Abdul, we know all about the muslim lie.
"Why you no like me, Effendi?"
Stick it, Abdul, your days on our island are numbered!
"Why you no like me, Effendi?"
Stick it, Abdul, your days on our island are numbered!
penhillbilly, says...
2:04pm Tue 26 Dec 06
Hmm, judging by the tone this debate has taken,methinks it is only a matter of time before this country erupts in civil war,as it's plainly obvious that the indiginous people of this country have had enough...as the Clash once said" White riot,i wanna riot,white riot, a riot of my own"...
Merry xmas to all our readers.....
Merry xmas to all our readers.....
Wormboy, says...
4:42pm Tue 26 Dec 06
I consider myself muslim but I have grown with Christians, I respect other faiths, I've been to churches more times than to mosque, I have also visited synagogues which was very interesting experience, I celebrate Christmas, I believe in Jesus Christ and I find his teachings genuine and righteous. Why people separate themselves like that, in the 21st century we should be more open to eachother and we should remove all the conservative barriers that prevents us living in peace.
usabikes, says...
6:14pm Tue 26 Dec 06
Islam is growing in the West because there are people who find Western culture & life barren. Modern secularism excludes the spiritual from truth & "reality" considerations - as the Pope said so well in his Regensburg address. Moreover we suffer from terrible immorality here (Muslims, especially in their own countries, have a very low opinion of white people's morals, especially the women's and treat us accordingly). I believe most Muslims to be honourable people, in fact a friend who was a missionary in Tanzania said the Muslims that he dealt with were more honest than the Christians. So it does no good to demonise & ignore the good bits of Islam. However, again, the core of Islam is quite rotten IMO & the closer a person gets to it the more they reject historical Western values such as the worth of the individual & democracy. What is the heart of Christianity? A man dying on a cross praying "Farther forgive them, they know not what they do". Look at the flag of Saudi Arabia, the birthplace & geographic heart of Islam: their flag is a sword and beneath it the words "There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is his prophet." There's the core difference. As I study islam I regrettably come to the conclusion that its merely another form of "Deviant Christianity". Like Mormonism it has its own prophet, its own new book of revelation that was initially meant to augment and explain the Bible but in reality supercedes & replaces it, a "respect" for Jesus but it then goes on to construct a non-devine "Jesus" unrecognisable to Christian Orthodoxy, and funny ideas about the relationship to the State and how many wives a bloke can have. No doubt, like Muslim women many Mormon women would have argued that they "like" being one of several wives & that it is "god's will". Honestly I cannot take Islam to be "one of the three great monotheistic religions of the world", like Mormonism its is just a Christian heresy. Unfortunately England & Europe are at the start of some very difficult decades. Russia is a leading example of what your future may look like. Its population of 143 Million is declining at the rate of 700,000 a year due to early deaths (often through suicide and alcoholism) and a low birth rate (7/10 pregnancies are aborted). But the Muslim population is growing quickly - they have lots of kids and immigration is quite high. In perhaps 10 years more than 1/2 the military will be Muslims and in 30 years 1/2 the total population. When Muslims reach 51% they will impose an Islamic State, there is no question of that (a Muslim leader in the case of Pastor Scot in Australia said this was the plan for Ozzie) it has always been the historical model. So one can argue that Islam is the external threat, but it would have no power if from within Westerners were not becoming increasingly godless, hopeless & directionless (and consequently morally & intellectually vulnerable to external pressures such as Islam. The typical response is for a rise in Nationalism - this is happening in Russia - but this will only lead to sufferring. Why should already oppressed Muslim women have to bury their children after a riot? What good will that do? The people of the West already have a Saviour and its definitely not the BNP. I'd suggest we re-acquaint ourselves with him while we have the chance.
Dave B., says...
6:41pm Tue 26 Dec 06
Philip wrote:And yet (just like in Saudi where so many men use prostitutes) Muslims will go and on about The West's lack of morals. Especially sexual morals.
Here is an article from the Telegraph. Do we wants our children taught about a cult \\\"Islam\\\" whose author Mohammed was a paedophile and whose followers seem to have a high proportion of paedophiles amongst them???
Police investigate child abuse in northern town
By Nigel Bunyon
Last Updated: 2:03am GMT 21/12/2006
A major investigation into the alleged sexual abuse of young white girls by predominantly Asian men has been launched by police and childcare agencies.
So far detectives in Oldham, Greater Manchester, have arrested 20 men, five of whom have been charged with offences that include abduction and rape. However, police expect other suspects to be held in the coming weeks.
advertisement
Both Oldham Council and Greater Manchester Police have emphasised that they have discovered no evidence of an organised paedophile ring.
The phenomenon appears to be largely cultural, with mainly young Asian men allegedly preying on vulnerable girls they meet in and around the town centre.
Police suspect the victims some of them as young as 12, the rest up to the age of 17 are being groomed over a period of months and sometimes years.
In some cases the men allegedly give them such presents as mobile phones, money and clothes .
The girls often regard the men as their boyfriends. However, as the relationship develops some of the abusers allegedly coerce them into having sex .
Police sources say that although both the abusers and their victims come from a variety of ethnic groups, the phenomenon is founded within Oldhams Pakistani community.
With Pakistani girls generally determined to remain virgins until they are married, young men in the community have tended to seek out white girls for sex.
\\\"We often find that these men are smartly dressed and running around in expensive cars, said a police source. It tends to be a lot easier them to impress the girls theyre looking for than unemployed white lads with no money.
Ruth Baldwin, director of the local councils directorate for children, young people and families, refused to give details of the ethnic mix, claiming that to do so might prejudice future trials. But she insisted that both abusers and their victims were from a variety of backgrounds.
The common thread among the girls was that they had low self-esteem and felt in need of love and affection.
Some have been abused at a time they were in local authority care.
Mrs Baldwin said the abusers were in their twenties, thirties, forties and, in one case, beyond. Police insist that the majority are at the younger end of the spectrum.
The catalyst for the investigation was the claims by four girls earlier this year that they had been abused.
As many as 20 girls - some as young as 12 - are thought to have been abused by older men who buy them gifts and pose as their \\\"boyfriends\\\", before turning the relationship sexual.
More than 20 people have already been arrested, and five people have been charged with offences including abduction and rape.
Greater Manchester Police have described the abuse as a major problem but say they have no evidence that it is the work of an organised paedophile ring.
The abusers typically prey on girls they do not know, approaching them in public places. They offer gifts of mobile phones and electronic gadgets to gain their victims\\\' trust, before plying them with drink and drugs.
It is alleged that the girls - a small number of whom are in local authority care - end up being physically harmed or forced into sex.
The joint inquiry is being carried out by police, Oldham council, Oldham Primary Care Trust and the charity Barnardos.
Though a religion that executes converts to Christianity, hangs homosexuals, stones women to death, forces children into marriages, forbids women an education and kills those who try to do so, has girls murdered (or forced to commit suicide) by family members and that glorifies the killing of non-Muslims (or bad Muslims...the hypocrisy of this so called picked-on Muslim brotherhood) as a holy act is quite frankly the last religion to go on about morals.
We had better morals and law and order in the UK before there were hardly any **** Muslims (or their tragic white converts) in the country.
The problems are not that we don't have the fetid stench of Shria Law hanging over us...but that the PC liberal morons and hippies (who of course are also apologists for Islamists...the irony!!) have destroyed common sense and taken all power away from the parents, teachers and the victims of crime and given it to the nasty children, the thuggish teenager and the hardcore criminal.
To say that the Uk needs Islam to 'clean it up' is like saying pre-WW2 Germany needed the Nazis!
unknown, says...
11:34pm Tue 26 Dec 06
Personally, A tax, payer, is paying for my child to learn about a religion, that kills people and is a complete waste of time, then we know where our government is wasting our money. I mean, will our children, really use RE full stop, in the real world? I tihnk the answer is no. That hour/half hour could be used for Enlgish maths science, PE, etc.
Just shows what a pile of crap our town and country is. What i say, ban anything to do that side of the world, i kick all the leaching f*ckers out of the country, if not head hunt them. Be tighter on our borders, our Eco, would definatly pick uip, NHS, Tax;s would be reduced. All that stuff.
Just shows what a pile of crap our town and country is. What i say, ban anything to do that side of the world, i kick all the leaching f*ckers out of the country, if not head hunt them. Be tighter on our borders, our Eco, would definatly pick uip, NHS, Tax;s would be reduced. All that stuff.
Simon, says...
11:38am Wed 27 Dec 06
You English cannot stop us now. You are weak and powerless to prevent the Islamification of Swindon. After conversion we will use your virgin pre-teenage daughters to spawn beautiful Muslims in their thousands (as there is no such thing as a teenage virgin in Swindon) - we care not about your sons. We will turn the GWR retail centre into MWR with a bazarre and Islamic studies centre with awesome minurettes of blue! We will crash our pedellos filled with high-explosives into the boats of the kuppar on Coate Water lake. Really folks, this is England, and It'll be England next year and the year after that. Relax - no-one is trying to open your mind.
Adam, says...
1:20pm Wed 27 Dec 06
I think some of the posts here are a bit out of order. You can't blame everything on Muslims as the post by 'unknown' clearly shows where he thinks that by kicking out 'immigrants' will boot the economy - what a joke, this country needs much more immegration if it is to keep growing the economy.
If we think Muslims should compleatly integrate into British society we should be able to demonstrate through the example of the mainstream society the benifits of integration - but we have to face the facts that our country is a mess.... the highest rate of teenage pregnacys in Europe, anti social beahviour, no respect for the elderly, no good food, no style, yob culture and an unjust policy abroad which is killing thousands of people... the message is LEAD BY EXAMPLE as this aggressive stance towards Muslims is not good for community cohesion.
If we think Muslims should compleatly integrate into British society we should be able to demonstrate through the example of the mainstream society the benifits of integration - but we have to face the facts that our country is a mess.... the highest rate of teenage pregnacys in Europe, anti social beahviour, no respect for the elderly, no good food, no style, yob culture and an unjust policy abroad which is killing thousands of people... the message is LEAD BY EXAMPLE as this aggressive stance towards Muslims is not good for community cohesion.
I.GOldberg, says...
1:28pm Wed 27 Dec 06
I agree with Adam. We should remember that the Holocaust was the result of a similar campaign as the one currently facing British Muslims. I thought the world had moved on? Well maybe not in Swindon AKA Swine-Town.
Chris, says...
3:49pm Wed 27 Dec 06
Simon wrote:lol - how very true!
You English cannot stop us now. You are weak and powerless to prevent the Islamification of Swindon. After conversion we will use your virgin pre-teenage daughters to spawn beautiful Muslims in their thousands (as there is no such thing as a teenage virgin in Swindon) - we care not about your sons. We will turn the GWR retail centre into MWR with a bazarre and Islamic studies centre with awesome minurettes of blue! We will crash our pedellos filled with high-explosives into the boats of the kuppar on Coate Water lake. Really folks, this is England, and It'll be England next year and the year after that. Relax - no-one is trying to open your mind.
annie, says...
4:41pm Wed 27 Dec 06
there is nothing wrong with teaching a child about other religions it is a good thing because we all have the right to choose our relgion when we are older. You people who say they dont want the children to be taught islam are narrow minded and rude. Islam is a very peacful relgion and my children are respectful to all different relgions. You probarly all go to muslim countries though on holiday then come back to uk and say sorry kids dont want u to learn islam, hypocrites. We all have to live and respect each others belifs thats how we grow as human beings.
Dave B., says...
5:10pm Wed 27 Dec 06
It seems people are still blind. You need telling again it seemsS
The fact is they won't 'teach' them about the true face of Islam, just the waterered down PC version.
They won't teach them that the Quran says you can beat your women, or execute Gays and converts to Christianity or that all non-Muslims must either surrender themselves to Islam or die.
They won't be taught about the brutal, inter-Family murders of girls and forced marriages, the fact that under many Islamic/Sharia based cultures women are denied an education and are forbidden to drive. Or that Sharia based Iran just executed it's 117th homosexual in a year.
And as for 9/11 and 7/7 not being anything to do with Islam...well those that carried the attacks out would not agree.
The fact is that in 2006, Islam is unique in it's danger, backwardsness, hate and crusading intent to swamp the globe.
Islamists are, in such massive numbers, once again unique in their literal belief in holy texts in positions of power and influence.
Women are not being raped, tortured and murdered for daring to hold professional jobs under Christian rule.
Homsexuals are not being executed on their hundreds under Christian rule.
Teachers are not being hacked to bits for daring to educate girls under Christian rule.
Citizens of countries are not commiting traitorous acts of terrorism aginst their own people and societies under Christian rule.
Any backlash against Islam is entirely Islam's doing as well I might add.
Who in the Uk cared one way or the other about Islam before 9/11 and 7/7? And all the riots, protests, global terrorist acts and threats that have come in-between and since?
Muslims have themselves to blame for finally showing their true colours after being so flushed with success after 9/11, when they clebrated in cities around the World. Including the London they would later attack.
And a religion that executes converts to Christianity, hangs homosexuals, stones women to death, forces children into marriages, forbids women an education and kills those who try to do so, has girls murdered (or forced to commit suicide) by family members and that glorifies the killing of non-Muslims (or bad Muslims...the hypocrisy of this so called picked-on Muslim brotherhood) as a holy act is quite frankly the last religion to go on about morals.
We had better morals and law and order in the UK before there were hardly any **** Muslims (or their tragic white converts) in the country.
The problems are not that we don't have the fetid stench of Shria Law hanging over us...but that the PC liberal morons and hippies (who of course are also apologists for Islamists...the irony!!) have destroyed common sense and taken all power away from the parents, teachers and the victims of crime and given it to the nasty children, the thuggish teenager and the hardcore criminal.
To say that the Uk needs Islam to 'clean it up' is like saying pre-WW2 Germany needed the Nazis!
Here endeth the lesson.
The fact is they won't 'teach' them about the true face of Islam, just the waterered down PC version.
They won't teach them that the Quran says you can beat your women, or execute Gays and converts to Christianity or that all non-Muslims must either surrender themselves to Islam or die.
They won't be taught about the brutal, inter-Family murders of girls and forced marriages, the fact that under many Islamic/Sharia based cultures women are denied an education and are forbidden to drive. Or that Sharia based Iran just executed it's 117th homosexual in a year.
And as for 9/11 and 7/7 not being anything to do with Islam...well those that carried the attacks out would not agree.
The fact is that in 2006, Islam is unique in it's danger, backwardsness, hate and crusading intent to swamp the globe.
Islamists are, in such massive numbers, once again unique in their literal belief in holy texts in positions of power and influence.
Women are not being raped, tortured and murdered for daring to hold professional jobs under Christian rule.
Homsexuals are not being executed on their hundreds under Christian rule.
Teachers are not being hacked to bits for daring to educate girls under Christian rule.
Citizens of countries are not commiting traitorous acts of terrorism aginst their own people and societies under Christian rule.
Any backlash against Islam is entirely Islam's doing as well I might add.
Who in the Uk cared one way or the other about Islam before 9/11 and 7/7? And all the riots, protests, global terrorist acts and threats that have come in-between and since?
Muslims have themselves to blame for finally showing their true colours after being so flushed with success after 9/11, when they clebrated in cities around the World. Including the London they would later attack.
And a religion that executes converts to Christianity, hangs homosexuals, stones women to death, forces children into marriages, forbids women an education and kills those who try to do so, has girls murdered (or forced to commit suicide) by family members and that glorifies the killing of non-Muslims (or bad Muslims...the hypocrisy of this so called picked-on Muslim brotherhood) as a holy act is quite frankly the last religion to go on about morals.
We had better morals and law and order in the UK before there were hardly any **** Muslims (or their tragic white converts) in the country.
The problems are not that we don't have the fetid stench of Shria Law hanging over us...but that the PC liberal morons and hippies (who of course are also apologists for Islamists...the irony!!) have destroyed common sense and taken all power away from the parents, teachers and the victims of crime and given it to the nasty children, the thuggish teenager and the hardcore criminal.
To say that the Uk needs Islam to 'clean it up' is like saying pre-WW2 Germany needed the Nazis!
Here endeth the lesson.
unknown, says...
6:56pm Wed 27 Dec 06
Hmm this is all crap. There is only a few ways to solve this problem:
1) Give notice to all the muslims, Afghans, polish, hindu's and what ever other "religions" are in our country. Tell them, they have x days to get the **** out of the country
2) If they ignore the letter, head hunt them and shoto the f*ckers.
3) To stop them breading anymore, drop nukes all over the middle east.
I mean jesus guys n gals, can tyou see they a re a leach on our already stretched economy.
I mean, they come over here, get benefits, get a nice new car, Sky Paid for, the whole lot and the Polish take our jobs, yeah, they are the **** jobs, but no wonder why most people are getting **** pay, its because these foreginers, will do a job for f*ck all.
I mean, they caused 9/11?
And the London Bombings?
And if thats what the f*ckers have to offer our country, then my child will be get a tutor at home.
I mean, they are direty, smelly, bread like rabbits and expect us, the Tax payers to pay for the 60 children and 7 wifes.
They make our government and our contry look a shambles. In 20 years time, the white "british" will be a minority in our own god dam country. Lets all start piling in the their country shall we? See how they like that.
Or better still put the f*cking lot fo them on the moon or something, that would solve alot of problems, yes?
Me
1) Give notice to all the muslims, Afghans, polish, hindu's and what ever other "religions" are in our country. Tell them, they have x days to get the **** out of the country
2) If they ignore the letter, head hunt them and shoto the f*ckers.
3) To stop them breading anymore, drop nukes all over the middle east.
I mean jesus guys n gals, can tyou see they a re a leach on our already stretched economy.
I mean, they come over here, get benefits, get a nice new car, Sky Paid for, the whole lot and the Polish take our jobs, yeah, they are the **** jobs, but no wonder why most people are getting **** pay, its because these foreginers, will do a job for f*ck all.
I mean, they caused 9/11?
And the London Bombings?
And if thats what the f*ckers have to offer our country, then my child will be get a tutor at home.
I mean, they are direty, smelly, bread like rabbits and expect us, the Tax payers to pay for the 60 children and 7 wifes.
They make our government and our contry look a shambles. In 20 years time, the white "british" will be a minority in our own god dam country. Lets all start piling in the their country shall we? See how they like that.
Or better still put the f*cking lot fo them on the moon or something, that would solve alot of problems, yes?
Me
mason, says...
7:53pm Wed 27 Dec 06
annie i hope you or your children dont live to regret your miguided views
usabikes, says...
3:19am Thu 28 Dec 06
Web aticle 27/12/06,
More from the horse's mouth, as it were:~
"The Struggle for the Soul of Islam in Cambridge"
Quote:
"Cambridge, England is justly famous for its university. Founded in 1209, the University of Cambridge is one of the oldest universities in the world. It has been a center of enlightenment and learning since its earliest days. Erasmus, perhaps the most important scholar of the Renaissance in northern Europe, translated the Greek New Testament and wrote the textbooks that became the basis for the new learning while at Cambridge. Milton, Harvey, Newton, Wordsworth, Byron, Tennyson, Darwin, Cavendish, Russell, Rutherford, Keynes, and Hawking among many others all contributed to Cambridges illustrious history.
In this bastion of liberal Western thought, it is not surprising that Timothy Winter, the Sheikh Zayed lecturer in Islamic Studies at Cambridges Wolfson College, is one of the most outspoken advocates for the creation of a European Islam. He is one of a number of European Muslims who believe that Islam can be adapted to function harmoniously as one of many religions practiced within a secular society. As a fellow academic, Tariq Ramadan, explained to Peter Ford of the Christian Science Monitor (Europes Rising Class of Believers: Muslims, February 24, 2005) "It is important for us as Muslims to be unambiguous that we respect the law and the secular framework."
Winter and Ramadan believe that European Muslims have an opportunity to reinterpret their religious sources, and by so doing reshape their thinking and modernize their customs and practices, that is to move away from the fundamentalist Arab view of Islam to a 21st Century European view of Islam. They believe the most important step on the path to a European Islam would be to change the attitude of Muslim men toward women. As Ramadan explained, Our experience in Europe has made it clear we must speak about equality.
It must therefore be disheartening to men like Winter and Ramadan that in preparation for the upcoming Eid-ul-Adha holiday, Muslims living in Cambridge received the following instructions with respect to women attending prayer services.
Many women - may Allah guide them - go out uncovered, wearing make-up and perfume, flaunting their adornment, when there is such serious overcrowding in the mosques - the dangers of this situation are quite obvious. So those who are in charge must organize the `Eid prayers properly, by allocating separate doors and routes for women and delaying the mens departure until the women have left . If the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, had seen what has happened to women, he would have stopped them from going to the mosques... It is better if permission is given only to those women who are not going to look at men or be looked at, whose attendance will not lead to anything undesirable and who are not going to rub shoulders with men on the street or in the mosque. (i.e., women whose going out will not cause fitnah or temptation to her or to men).
According to the Cambridge Muslims Online website, during the Eid prayer service, the Imam must remind the community about its responsibilities and obligations towards Allah, fellow Muslims and the fellow human beings. The Imam must encourage the Muslims to do good and ward off evil. The Muslim community must also be directed to the state of the community and the Ummah at large and the feelings of sacrifice and Jihad should be aroused in the community.
The term jihad has various interpretations. The meaning that the Cambridge Muslim website ascribes to it is found under the heading Authenticity of the Quran in an article written by Abdur-Raheem Green. Mr. Green has been called an exponent of radical Islam, but a more accurate description would be that he is an orthodox Muslim...
According to Green, the struggle between Islam and the West is for one purpose only and that is to establish the religion of Islam in its totality. Green believes that the condition of Muslims today is that of self defense which he defines as restricting the fight to those who fight you (2:190), and releasing the lands of the Muslims from the control of their enemies. The final stage of jihad is that of fighting in order to open the path for establishing Allahs rule in the lands of the unbelievers, as was done by the Prophets companions and the Muslim rulers after them . So this Jihad is the peak of the matter and fulfilling it is part of fulfilling the covenant with Allah, and abandoning it is the cause of humiliation and defeat for the Muslims.
Green believes that those of us in the West misunderstand the basic nature of the conflict. So the matter of conflict between Islam and the West is not at all factors such as geography, past enmities, culture clash and so on; nor is the Islamic Revival some search for identity, coupled with some sort of inferiority complex. To the believer the conflict is one of truth against falsehood, justice against oppression, the way to Paradise against the way to Hellfire, the perfection of Allahs revealed way against the misguidance of human ignorance.
Green goes on to write that Westerners who believe they can reach some sort of compromise with Muslims are mistaken, and that Muslims and Westerners can never live peaceably with each other. The truth is that Islam teaches its followers to seek death on the battle field, that dying whilst fighting jihad is one of the surest ways to paradise and Allahs good pleasure. It is as Khalid bin Waleed, whom the Prophet, peace be upon him, called the Sword of Allah and hero of every good Muslim child, said in response to a Roman letter inviting him to surrender: We have with us people who love death as you love wine. It was Ronald Reagan who quite rightly pointed out that: How do you expect to defeat a people who believe that when you kill them they go to a paradise filled with beautiful virgins and rivers of wine? Whether the believer sees the result in his or her life time is irrelevant, for their duty is to carry on the jihad, and so be saved from Allahs wrath in this life and the next . The conflict will be there as long as there are those who stubbornly resist submission to their Lord and Creator. If all of this seems intransigent and fundamentalist thats because IT IS. With Islam you are dealing with absolutes.
Those European Muslims who like Professor Winter do not share Greens apocalyptic vision believe they are engaged in a struggle for the soul of Islam. According to Winter the Saudis and other Persian Gulf nations spend tens of millions of pounds to ensure that the most fundamentalist form of Islam prevails in schools and bookshops. Liberal Islam - economically, culturally, and socially - is crying in the wilderness. If the Cambridge Muslims website is any indication, the soul of Islam is still firmly in fundamentalist hands ."
End quote
More from the horse's mouth, as it were:~
"The Struggle for the Soul of Islam in Cambridge"
Quote:
"Cambridge, England is justly famous for its university. Founded in 1209, the University of Cambridge is one of the oldest universities in the world. It has been a center of enlightenment and learning since its earliest days. Erasmus, perhaps the most important scholar of the Renaissance in northern Europe, translated the Greek New Testament and wrote the textbooks that became the basis for the new learning while at Cambridge. Milton, Harvey, Newton, Wordsworth, Byron, Tennyson, Darwin, Cavendish, Russell, Rutherford, Keynes, and Hawking among many others all contributed to Cambridges illustrious history.
In this bastion of liberal Western thought, it is not surprising that Timothy Winter, the Sheikh Zayed lecturer in Islamic Studies at Cambridges Wolfson College, is one of the most outspoken advocates for the creation of a European Islam. He is one of a number of European Muslims who believe that Islam can be adapted to function harmoniously as one of many religions practiced within a secular society. As a fellow academic, Tariq Ramadan, explained to Peter Ford of the Christian Science Monitor (Europes Rising Class of Believers: Muslims, February 24, 2005) "It is important for us as Muslims to be unambiguous that we respect the law and the secular framework."
Winter and Ramadan believe that European Muslims have an opportunity to reinterpret their religious sources, and by so doing reshape their thinking and modernize their customs and practices, that is to move away from the fundamentalist Arab view of Islam to a 21st Century European view of Islam. They believe the most important step on the path to a European Islam would be to change the attitude of Muslim men toward women. As Ramadan explained, Our experience in Europe has made it clear we must speak about equality.
It must therefore be disheartening to men like Winter and Ramadan that in preparation for the upcoming Eid-ul-Adha holiday, Muslims living in Cambridge received the following instructions with respect to women attending prayer services.
Many women - may Allah guide them - go out uncovered, wearing make-up and perfume, flaunting their adornment, when there is such serious overcrowding in the mosques - the dangers of this situation are quite obvious. So those who are in charge must organize the `Eid prayers properly, by allocating separate doors and routes for women and delaying the mens departure until the women have left . If the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, had seen what has happened to women, he would have stopped them from going to the mosques... It is better if permission is given only to those women who are not going to look at men or be looked at, whose attendance will not lead to anything undesirable and who are not going to rub shoulders with men on the street or in the mosque. (i.e., women whose going out will not cause fitnah or temptation to her or to men).
According to the Cambridge Muslims Online website, during the Eid prayer service, the Imam must remind the community about its responsibilities and obligations towards Allah, fellow Muslims and the fellow human beings. The Imam must encourage the Muslims to do good and ward off evil. The Muslim community must also be directed to the state of the community and the Ummah at large and the feelings of sacrifice and Jihad should be aroused in the community.
The term jihad has various interpretations. The meaning that the Cambridge Muslim website ascribes to it is found under the heading Authenticity of the Quran in an article written by Abdur-Raheem Green. Mr. Green has been called an exponent of radical Islam, but a more accurate description would be that he is an orthodox Muslim...
According to Green, the struggle between Islam and the West is for one purpose only and that is to establish the religion of Islam in its totality. Green believes that the condition of Muslims today is that of self defense which he defines as restricting the fight to those who fight you (2:190), and releasing the lands of the Muslims from the control of their enemies. The final stage of jihad is that of fighting in order to open the path for establishing Allahs rule in the lands of the unbelievers, as was done by the Prophets companions and the Muslim rulers after them . So this Jihad is the peak of the matter and fulfilling it is part of fulfilling the covenant with Allah, and abandoning it is the cause of humiliation and defeat for the Muslims.
Green believes that those of us in the West misunderstand the basic nature of the conflict. So the matter of conflict between Islam and the West is not at all factors such as geography, past enmities, culture clash and so on; nor is the Islamic Revival some search for identity, coupled with some sort of inferiority complex. To the believer the conflict is one of truth against falsehood, justice against oppression, the way to Paradise against the way to Hellfire, the perfection of Allahs revealed way against the misguidance of human ignorance.
Green goes on to write that Westerners who believe they can reach some sort of compromise with Muslims are mistaken, and that Muslims and Westerners can never live peaceably with each other. The truth is that Islam teaches its followers to seek death on the battle field, that dying whilst fighting jihad is one of the surest ways to paradise and Allahs good pleasure. It is as Khalid bin Waleed, whom the Prophet, peace be upon him, called the Sword of Allah and hero of every good Muslim child, said in response to a Roman letter inviting him to surrender: We have with us people who love death as you love wine. It was Ronald Reagan who quite rightly pointed out that: How do you expect to defeat a people who believe that when you kill them they go to a paradise filled with beautiful virgins and rivers of wine? Whether the believer sees the result in his or her life time is irrelevant, for their duty is to carry on the jihad, and so be saved from Allahs wrath in this life and the next . The conflict will be there as long as there are those who stubbornly resist submission to their Lord and Creator. If all of this seems intransigent and fundamentalist thats because IT IS. With Islam you are dealing with absolutes.
Those European Muslims who like Professor Winter do not share Greens apocalyptic vision believe they are engaged in a struggle for the soul of Islam. According to Winter the Saudis and other Persian Gulf nations spend tens of millions of pounds to ensure that the most fundamentalist form of Islam prevails in schools and bookshops. Liberal Islam - economically, culturally, and socially - is crying in the wilderness. If the Cambridge Muslims website is any indication, the soul of Islam is still firmly in fundamentalist hands ."
End quote
usabikes, says...
3:33am Thu 28 Dec 06
Contrast this with a recent rticle from the Brussels Journal:
Quote:
Blair on Islam: Standard-Bearer of Tolerance
To me, the most remarkable thing about the Koran is how progressive it is. I write with great humility as a member of another faith. As an outsider, the Koran strikes me as a reforming book, trying to return Judaism and Christianity to their origins, much as reformers attempted to do with the Christian church centuries later. The Koran is inclusive. It extols science and knowledge and abhors superstition. It is practical and far ahead of its time in attitudes toward marriage, women, and governance.
Under its guidance, the spread of Islam and its dominance over previously Christian or pagan lands were breathtaking. Over centuries, Islam founded an empire and led the world in discovery, art, and culture. The standard-bearers of tolerance in the early Middle Ages were far more likely to be found in Muslim lands than in Christian ones.
End quote.
I think we're in trouble if we don't help Prof. Winter and his friends. I'm afraid our leaders show no sign at all of knowing what they are talking about.
Quote:
Blair on Islam: Standard-Bearer of Tolerance
To me, the most remarkable thing about the Koran is how progressive it is. I write with great humility as a member of another faith. As an outsider, the Koran strikes me as a reforming book, trying to return Judaism and Christianity to their origins, much as reformers attempted to do with the Christian church centuries later. The Koran is inclusive. It extols science and knowledge and abhors superstition. It is practical and far ahead of its time in attitudes toward marriage, women, and governance.
Under its guidance, the spread of Islam and its dominance over previously Christian or pagan lands were breathtaking. Over centuries, Islam founded an empire and led the world in discovery, art, and culture. The standard-bearers of tolerance in the early Middle Ages were far more likely to be found in Muslim lands than in Christian ones.
End quote.
I think we're in trouble if we don't help Prof. Winter and his friends. I'm afraid our leaders show no sign at all of knowing what they are talking about.
Alfred of Wessex, says...
3:47pm Thu 28 Dec 06
For those of you with internet access, get over to www.jihadwatch.com or www.dhimmiwatch.com. Then buy a copy of Robert Spencer's book The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Truth-about-Muhammad-Intolerant-Religion/dp/1596980281/sr=1-1/qid=1167320514/ref=sr_1_1/202-2592019-2267860?ie=UTF8&s=books ).
If you are a real Christian, get David Pawson's book The Challenge of Islam to Christians. ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Challenge-Islam-Christians-David-Pawson/dp/0340861894 )
Educate yourselves and your children before reading the truth is banned on the orders of this amoral, corrupt and traitorous Cultural Marxist establishment.
toby gugg, says...
6:08pm Thu 28 Dec 06
native english parents must for once be allowed to choose whats best for their children & not be dictated to by a liberal elite who hate christianity & yet love islam so much they just cannot see the evil that lurks in this cult of death.my best advice is for all these odd bedfellows to live under islam overseas not here under sharia law & as the ordinary person is forced to.it is a totally alien cult whose culture is alien to humans.
Abdul, says...
7:11pm Thu 28 Dec 06
usabikes has lost the plot.
There are 2 very simple points that the extremists on this forum cant understand which is why they are in so much darkness and hold so much prejudice and insecurity.
They cant understand why Muslims and non Muslims who are BORN in the UK are rediscovering Islam and using is as the main thing that shapes their lives.
ii) They cant explain what is so great about British society such that Muslims would abandon using Islam to base their personalities upon and what they do instead and why they should do that.
I was always taught that Britain has a tradition of dialogue . Well is seems like the extremists on this forum want to force their views on others as they have clearly have such week views that they will be rejected by everyone except and extremist fringe.
This just sums up how shallow you extremists are.
People should look into Islam for themselves as it is only a threat to people like usabikes and at the end of the day he just wants to be Braindead.
Would you call the women on this video an IMMEGRANT???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFZrSPUoH3I
There are 2 very simple points that the extremists on this forum cant understand which is why they are in so much darkness and hold so much prejudice and insecurity.
They cant understand why Muslims and non Muslims who are BORN in the UK are rediscovering Islam and using is as the main thing that shapes their lives.
ii) They cant explain what is so great about British society such that Muslims would abandon using Islam to base their personalities upon and what they do instead and why they should do that.
I was always taught that Britain has a tradition of dialogue . Well is seems like the extremists on this forum want to force their views on others as they have clearly have such week views that they will be rejected by everyone except and extremist fringe.
This just sums up how shallow you extremists are.
People should look into Islam for themselves as it is only a threat to people like usabikes and at the end of the day he just wants to be Braindead.
Would you call the women on this video an IMMEGRANT???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFZrSPUoH3I
Dave B., says...
9:30pm Thu 28 Dec 06
Abdul posted: "as it (ISLAM) is only a threat to people like usabikes".
Really??
Tell that to the dead of 9/11.
Tell that to the dead of 7/7.
Tell that to the non-Muslims in Africa as Islamic Jihadists rape and murder.
Tell that to the victims of the Spain bombings.
Tell that to the victims of the Bali bombings.
Tell that to the raped and butchered women who try to hold down jobs in Iraq.
Tell that to the 117 hanged homosexuals in Iran this year.
Tell that to the women arrested in Iran for what they were wearing.
Tell that to the Asian children in the Uk who are forced into marriages in Pakistan.
Tell that to the victims of countless 'honour killings' all over the world.
Tell that to the Daughters and Sisters murdered by fathers and Brothers for so called 'sins'.
Tell that to the butchered teachers who tried to educate girls in Afghanistan.
Tell that to the executed Christians who converted from Islam.
Tell that to the many murdered Christians all over the Islamic world.
Tell that to the murdered film makers, artists and writers and those in hiding for thier lives.
Tell that to the 70 year old Nun blown apart by Muslim bullets.
AND ALL THIS STILL GOING ON IN 2006.
Really??
Tell that to the dead of 9/11.
Tell that to the dead of 7/7.
Tell that to the non-Muslims in Africa as Islamic Jihadists rape and murder.
Tell that to the victims of the Spain bombings.
Tell that to the victims of the Bali bombings.
Tell that to the raped and butchered women who try to hold down jobs in Iraq.
Tell that to the 117 hanged homosexuals in Iran this year.
Tell that to the women arrested in Iran for what they were wearing.
Tell that to the Asian children in the Uk who are forced into marriages in Pakistan.
Tell that to the victims of countless 'honour killings' all over the world.
Tell that to the Daughters and Sisters murdered by fathers and Brothers for so called 'sins'.
Tell that to the butchered teachers who tried to educate girls in Afghanistan.
Tell that to the executed Christians who converted from Islam.
Tell that to the many murdered Christians all over the Islamic world.
Tell that to the murdered film makers, artists and writers and those in hiding for thier lives.
Tell that to the 70 year old Nun blown apart by Muslim bullets.
AND ALL THIS STILL GOING ON IN 2006.
Dave B., says...
12:38am Fri 29 Dec 06
And while you're at it...to get more Uk specific:
Tell that to the people of the Uk that, in all faith, allowed Islam to be practiced here only to see......
Our history, culture and values ignored and spat on.
Calls for Islamic Law to become Uk law.
Benefit grasping extremists and foreign Clerics taking all and everything this country offers while preaching death to its people and culture.
Mass protests that preach death and execution to non-Muslims in our capital city while the Police do nothing.
Mass gatherings that praise suicide bombers and call for Jihad on the UK.
Our people murdered by so called British citizens, who put Islam before loyalty and citizenship to the Uk and its people, in the first ever use of suicide bombings in our country.
Mass arrests (and CHARGES) against hundreds of British Muslims in dozens of terrorist plots against the Uk and it's Western allies.
Seeming freedom for Muslims to call for death, attacks and destruction of our country and people (as well as constant jibes at everything about this country in general, despite tyhem all still benifitting from being here), while veryone else is criticised and arrested for sticking up to them.
Basically we see our people murdered, we see so called moderates preaching endless apologist remarks for such murders, we see our cities become Middle Eastern ghettos, we see our history, culture, values and very existence ridiculed constantly, we see Muslim hate-mongers call for (and praise) attacks on our people while living off state hand-outs, we see Muslim women **** about a backwards veil and slagging off our country whilst women in Muslim countries die horrible, are forbidden a career and education. All things that don;t apply to the life the Uk offers them.
We see the hate, lies, hypocrisy, barbarism, threats and death that is the result of letting the fetid religion of Islam into our country...AND WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!
Tell that to the people of the Uk that, in all faith, allowed Islam to be practiced here only to see......
Our history, culture and values ignored and spat on.
Calls for Islamic Law to become Uk law.
Benefit grasping extremists and foreign Clerics taking all and everything this country offers while preaching death to its people and culture.
Mass protests that preach death and execution to non-Muslims in our capital city while the Police do nothing.
Mass gatherings that praise suicide bombers and call for Jihad on the UK.
Our people murdered by so called British citizens, who put Islam before loyalty and citizenship to the Uk and its people, in the first ever use of suicide bombings in our country.
Mass arrests (and CHARGES) against hundreds of British Muslims in dozens of terrorist plots against the Uk and it's Western allies.
Seeming freedom for Muslims to call for death, attacks and destruction of our country and people (as well as constant jibes at everything about this country in general, despite tyhem all still benifitting from being here), while veryone else is criticised and arrested for sticking up to them.
Basically we see our people murdered, we see so called moderates preaching endless apologist remarks for such murders, we see our cities become Middle Eastern ghettos, we see our history, culture, values and very existence ridiculed constantly, we see Muslim hate-mongers call for (and praise) attacks on our people while living off state hand-outs, we see Muslim women **** about a backwards veil and slagging off our country whilst women in Muslim countries die horrible, are forbidden a career and education. All things that don;t apply to the life the Uk offers them.
We see the hate, lies, hypocrisy, barbarism, threats and death that is the result of letting the fetid religion of Islam into our country...AND WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!
Out of town, says...
12:47am Fri 29 Dec 06
what can I say? I moved away from swindon 5 years ago, and judging by what I read I'm glad. I'd like my kids to grow up accepting and interested in other cultures, most of the people here seem to be happy to raise kids to be just as narrow minded and scared of anything 'different' as themselves. if the kids get taught RE then islam is going to be a part of this class, it's not going to change them as a person, it's not going to turn them into a raving lunatic
in this bad world we find ourselves in don't you think education is the key to changing it?
i'm white, im swindon born and bred, and to be honest i'm ashamed that my roots lie in this nonsense.
im glad i moved out to a multicultural '****hole' and opened my eyes to the real world.
for those who say im politically correct........think again idiots .......i just have a brain
in this bad world we find ourselves in don't you think education is the key to changing it?
i'm white, im swindon born and bred, and to be honest i'm ashamed that my roots lie in this nonsense.
im glad i moved out to a multicultural '****hole' and opened my eyes to the real world.
for those who say im politically correct........think again idiots .......i just have a brain
Allah Akhbar, says...
12:49am Fri 29 Dec 06
Adam wrote:I did say you were ignorant, why prove it? We dont WANT to integrate with you kaffur, why dont you understand? I almost feel sorry for you. Aggression or not, we dont care, were already here. As bush the murderer said...bring it on
I think some of the posts here are a bit out of order. You can\'t blame everything on Muslims as the post by \'unknown\' clearly shows where he thinks that by kicking out \'immigrants\' will boot the economy - what a joke, this country needs much more immegration if it is to keep growing the economy. If we think Muslims should compleatly integrate into British society we should be able to demonstrate through the example of the mainstream society the benifits of integration - but we have to face the facts that our country is a mess.... the highest rate of teenage pregnacys in Europe, anti social beahviour, no respect for the elderly, no good food, no style, yob culture and an unjust policy abroad which is killing thousands of people... the message is LEAD BY EXAMPLE as this aggressive stance towards Muslims is not good for community cohesion.
usabikes, says...
3:30am Fri 29 Dec 06
Abdul, I'm sorry that you think I'm an extremist, please see my earlier posts. I have given praise to much of the behaviour of most of the Umma. I have also decried xenophobia & Nationalism. However I maintain the gravest reservations concerning Islam's founding documents, Mohammad & Islamic history!
I have not even mentioned the Hindu holocuast figures, the worst perhaps being the 1971 killing of up to 3 million Hindus in Bangladesh. Nor have I mentioned the Armenian genocide of up to 1.5 million Armenian Christians in 1915. Nor have I mentioned the historic Islamic role in slavery - which still goes on today in the tens of thousands in Africa. I haven't mentioned how increasingly Islamic - and therefore sadly, unjust - Pakistan has become since the 1970's - to the extent that a newspaper editor has been given a life sentence for printing a letter to the editor that dared to bring into question the character of Muhammad.
I haven't mentioned the Hudd ordinances in Pakistan, whereby a non-Muslim's testimony is not admissable in court against a Muslim, or a Muslim woman's testimony is worth only 1/2 that of a Muslim man - making rape cases almost impossible to try. Recent proposed changes in the law to "modernise" it have been met with howls of protest from devout Muslims.
Pakistan has become so bad that I frankly cannot understand the silence when both Zimbabwe and Fiji were severely reprimanded by the Commonwealth for doing less. It seems that a peculiar form of white Western guilt is silencing our leaders. Zimbabwe & Fiji are ostensibly Christian and can be criticised, but a Muslim nation, even a Commonwealth one goes on without a murmur.
Part of the reason for my reticence in raising these matters is that I don't want to be seen to be simply pick out the worst in one religion & comparing it with the best in another. Another part of my reasoning is to try & encourage dialogue, not knee-jerk reactions.
As per an earlier post, it was the Muslim Professor Winter of Cambridge who said that "the Saudis and other Persian Gulf nations spend tens of millions of pounds to ensure that the most fundamentalist form of Islam prevails in schools and bookshops."
With Western governments burying their heads in the sand the ordinary person has got to find out the facts for themselves & do what we can to welcome our Muslim friends and find a way to live together. I'm sorry if that sounds extreme to you.
BTW, I'd be really interested in your reasons why Brits are becoming Muslim.
I have not even mentioned the Hindu holocuast figures, the worst perhaps being the 1971 killing of up to 3 million Hindus in Bangladesh. Nor have I mentioned the Armenian genocide of up to 1.5 million Armenian Christians in 1915. Nor have I mentioned the historic Islamic role in slavery - which still goes on today in the tens of thousands in Africa. I haven't mentioned how increasingly Islamic - and therefore sadly, unjust - Pakistan has become since the 1970's - to the extent that a newspaper editor has been given a life sentence for printing a letter to the editor that dared to bring into question the character of Muhammad.
I haven't mentioned the Hudd ordinances in Pakistan, whereby a non-Muslim's testimony is not admissable in court against a Muslim, or a Muslim woman's testimony is worth only 1/2 that of a Muslim man - making rape cases almost impossible to try. Recent proposed changes in the law to "modernise" it have been met with howls of protest from devout Muslims.
Pakistan has become so bad that I frankly cannot understand the silence when both Zimbabwe and Fiji were severely reprimanded by the Commonwealth for doing less. It seems that a peculiar form of white Western guilt is silencing our leaders. Zimbabwe & Fiji are ostensibly Christian and can be criticised, but a Muslim nation, even a Commonwealth one goes on without a murmur.
Part of the reason for my reticence in raising these matters is that I don't want to be seen to be simply pick out the worst in one religion & comparing it with the best in another. Another part of my reasoning is to try & encourage dialogue, not knee-jerk reactions.
As per an earlier post, it was the Muslim Professor Winter of Cambridge who said that "the Saudis and other Persian Gulf nations spend tens of millions of pounds to ensure that the most fundamentalist form of Islam prevails in schools and bookshops."
With Western governments burying their heads in the sand the ordinary person has got to find out the facts for themselves & do what we can to welcome our Muslim friends and find a way to live together. I'm sorry if that sounds extreme to you.
BTW, I'd be really interested in your reasons why Brits are becoming Muslim.
Neil Mercer, says...
10:44am Fri 29 Dec 06
Some of the comments on here make me despair.
When will people realise that religious education teaches children ABOUT religion, it does not tell them what they should believe.
The more our children understand about the world they live in the better. Religion plays a major part in society. Therefore children should learn about ALL religions.
When will people realise that religious education teaches children ABOUT religion, it does not tell them what they should believe.
The more our children understand about the world they live in the better. Religion plays a major part in society. Therefore children should learn about ALL religions.
Chris, says...
4:57pm today Fri 29 Dec 06
Neil, I understand where you are coming from and no doubt you are a decent person, as most of us are but when it comes to religion being taught to children it would be ok if all,that is ALL aspects are taught and not just a watered down pink and fluffy everyone loves everyone else happy clappy versions, I feel the same about history as well, teach it warts and all. I feel this is a far better education for children as it helps to see the dangers inherent in the world as well as just the positive side of things, a better preparation for life in the long run.
abdul, says...
6:00pm Fri 29 Dec 06
usabikes - you cant blame the policys of secular govements in the Muslim world today on Islam.... as for why people in the west are turning to Islam... well this a very interesting point.... secular society (due to it's historic experiance with Christianity and chrisitan rule before the advent of secularism) belive that religion is somthing that you can never prove.
However Islam from the very start invited people to think and brings proof to justify this with CERTANTY. This is why people who pracice Islam or convert to Islam have peace of mind and they know with intellectual certanty that they are on the right path.
Another way to look at this is that if the Quran is not from god them why has not one single human being on the fact of the earth in the last 1400 years been able to prove that the Quran is not from god:
http://theinimitablequran.com/
However Islam from the very start invited people to think and brings proof to justify this with CERTANTY. This is why people who pracice Islam or convert to Islam have peace of mind and they know with intellectual certanty that they are on the right path.
Another way to look at this is that if the Quran is not from god them why has not one single human being on the fact of the earth in the last 1400 years been able to prove that the Quran is not from god:
http://theinimitablequran.com/
Dave B., says...
6:05pm Fri 29 Dec 06
Neil Mercer wrote:How many more times!!!???
Some of the comments on here make me despair.
When will people realise that religious education teaches children ABOUT religion, it does not tell them what they should believe.
The more our children understand about the world they live in the better. Religion plays a major part in society. Therefore children should learn about ALL religions.
But they won't be taught the TRUTH about Islam, the only true, all-encompassing, political religion, that still in 2006 spits out backwards, murderous barbarism all around the world every single minute of every single day on an ever growing level!
As long as blind PC fools let Islam do what it is designed to do...CONQUER...it will go on doing it! And The West will slip into a new dark age.
And it will all be thanks to the same PC, liberal, self-hating/West hating, Islamic fanboys that have also managed to turn our country into a playground for every criminal, rapist, bogus asylum seeker and Chav!!
Thus, of course, giving the lying, sly, war loving Islamists the excuse they need to slag off our country and declare that it needs Islam to cure it!
If we had this same biased, weak, PC media, and a country run and full of as many PC idiots and traitors, in WW2 we would all now be speaking German and sleeping under a swastika.
But of course the Islamists would love that anyway!
Dave B., says...
6:11pm Fri 29 Dec 06
abdul wrote:Idiot!
usabikes - you cant blame the policys of secular govements in the Muslim world today on Islam.... as for why people in the west are turning to Islam... well this a very interesting point.... secular society (due to it's historic experiance with Christianity and chrisitan rule before the advent of secularism) belive that religion is somthing that you can never prove.
However Islam from the very start invited people to think and brings proof to justify this with CERTANTY. This is why people who pracice Islam or convert to Islam have peace of mind and they know with intellectual certanty that they are on the right path.
Another way to look at this is that if the Quran is not from god them why has not one single human being on the fact of the earth in the last 1400 years been able to prove that the Quran is not from god:
http://theinimitablequran.com/
How can one prove something that does not exist!
Seeing as jihadists like you force your fantasy beliefs (at the point of a gun and the threat of a bomb) onto everyone else...IT IS YOU that should have to prove the Quran (or the Bible come to that) are the word of God...Go on then!! Prove it or shut up and keep you're delusion to yourself and not on our streets!
Fanatasy fanatic Abdul you have no place in our country. Take the others like you (including the moronic Western converts) and vanish to the backwards countries that do have the barbaric word of Islam as it's rule of Law!!
Or are the benefits not as good?
Out of town, says...
6:49pm Fri 29 Dec 06
Dave B. wrote:dave b, i think ud do very well in america
abdul wrote: usabikes - you cant blame the policys of secular govements in the Muslim world today on Islam.... as for why people in the west are turning to Islam... well this a very interesting point.... secular society (due to it\\\'s historic experiance with Christianity and chrisitan rule before the advent of secularism) belive that religion is somthing that you can never prove. However Islam from the very start invited people to think and brings proof to justify this with CERTANTY. This is why people who pracice Islam or convert to Islam have peace of mind and they know with intellectual certanty that they are on the right path. Another way to look at this is that if the Quran is not from god them why has not one single human being on the fact of the earth in the last 1400 years been able to prove that the Quran is not from god: http://theinimitablequran.com/Idiot! How can one prove something that does not exist! Seeing as jihadists like you force your fantasy beliefs (at the point of a gun and the threat of a bomb) onto everyone else...IT IS YOU that should have to prove the Quran (or the Bible come to that) are the word of God...Go on then!! Prove it or shut up and keep you\\\'re delusion to yourself and not on our streets! Fanatasy fanatic Abdul you have no place in our country. Take the others like you (including the moronic Western converts) and vanish to the backwards countries that do have the barbaric word of Islam as it\\\'s rule of Law!! Or are the benefits not as good?
however, in the uk we practise freedom and tolerance? which we can do alongside islam ( i know you'll be surprised to hear that)
there are extremists, and lunatics in every faith and culture unfortunately. it is just a shame that you only seem to recognise this as being a problem in one faith
after all, George Bush did initially say he started the war in Iraq 'because god told me it was the right thing to'
Out of Town, says...
6:51pm Fri 29 Dec 06
dave b, i think ud do very well in america
however, in the uk we practise freedom and tolerance? which we can do alongside islam ( i know you'll be surprised to hear that)
there are extremists, and lunatics in every faith and culture unfortunately. it is just a shame that you only seem to recognise this as being a problem in one faith
after all, George Bush did initially say he started the war in Iraq 'because god told me it was the right thing to do'
however, in the uk we practise freedom and tolerance? which we can do alongside islam ( i know you'll be surprised to hear that)
there are extremists, and lunatics in every faith and culture unfortunately. it is just a shame that you only seem to recognise this as being a problem in one faith
after all, George Bush did initially say he started the war in Iraq 'because god told me it was the right thing to do'
Dave B., says...
7:20pm Fri 29 Dec 06
Out of Town wrote:The same USA who sent soldiers to doe in Europe and to fight alongside us? Sounds okay to me.
dave b, i think ud do very well in america
however, in the uk we practise freedom and tolerance? which we can do alongside islam ( i know you'll be surprised to hear that)
there are extremists, and lunatics in every faith and culture unfortunately. it is just a shame that you only seem to recognise this as being a problem in one faith
after all, George Bush did initially say he started the war in Iraq 'because god told me it was the right thing to do'
And don't think (AGAIN!) that educated anti-Islam remarks mean I support a bible-thumping hick like Bush!
I despise all organised religion.
But there is only one religion, (which is just as much a political movement as anything else!) and its followers who are a threat to the UK.
Only one that used suicide bombers in London.
Only one that wants it's Law in our land.
There is only one plotting numerous terrorist attacks against my country, my people and my family!
Only one that walks the streets of our cities and calls for our death and destruction!!!
AND THAT'S ISLAM!!
And I beleive WE did live in peace with Muslims and gave them ALL a better life and more freedoms (esp the women) than under any Islamic regime!! And I believe (to our cost!!!) WE did live in peace with Islam....UNTIL MODERN ISLAM GREW SOME BALLS ON 9/11 AND DECLARED WAR ON ALL OF US
Dave B., says...
7:23pm Fri 29 Dec 06
Out of Town wrote:The same USA who sent soldiers to doe in Europe and to fight alongside us? Sounds okay to me.
dave b, i think ud do very well in america
however, in the uk we practise freedom and tolerance? which we can do alongside islam ( i know you\'ll be surprised to hear that)
there are extremists, and lunatics in every faith and culture unfortunately. it is just a shame that you only seem to recognise this as being a problem in one faith
after all, George Bush did initially say he started the war in Iraq \'because god told me it was the right thing to do\'
And don't think (AGAIN!) that educated anti-Islam remarks mean I support a bible-thumping hick like Bush!
I despise all organised religion.
But there is only one religion, (which is just as much a political movement as anything else!) and its followers who are a threat to the UK.
Only one that used suicide bombers in London.
Only one that wants it's Law in our land.
There is only one plotting numerous terrorist attacks against my country, my people and my family!
Only one that walks the streets of our cities and calls for our death and destruction!!!
AND THAT'S ISLAM!!
And I beleive WE did live in peace with Muslims and gave them ALL a better life and more freedoms (esp the women) than under any Islamic regime!! And I believe (to our cost!) WE did live in peace with Islam....Until it spat in our faces!!!
UNTIL MODERN ISLAM GREW SOME BALLS ON 9/11 AND DECLARED WAR ON ALL OF US
Islam can't even live in peace with itself! Just look at the BRUTAL BARBARIY of Muslim against Muslim in Iraq! As they choose to re-live thousand year old sectarian hate!
Islam and peace have never gone together and never will.
Philip, says...
7:55pm Fri 29 Dec 06
Neil Mercer wrote:Neil
Some of the comments on here make me despair. When will people realise that religious education teaches children ABOUT religion, it does not tell them what they should believe. The more our children understand about the world they live in the better. Religion plays a major part in society. Therefore children should learn about ALL religions.
Children should get a general education about religion both good and bad points
They should also be taught that Islam follows the morals and teachings of the known paedophile Muhammed. THis is a FACT. He married Aisha, a girl of SIX !!! and then had sex with her when she was only NINE !!!
Muslims will tell you that this was the way in that era. well excuse me but I fail to see how any man could want to have sex with a pre-pubescent girl of 9.
So Muhammed had less morals that a dirty pig or dog.
I really do hope that they teach our children all about this aspect of the Qu'ran & Islam.
Derrick, says...
8:25pm Fri 29 Dec 06
Bring the BNP in to teach the kids about Islam, they would get the truth about this wicked faith then instead of the educationist's politically correct sanitised version of it being pushed down their throats!
Dave B., says...
9:32pm Fri 29 Dec 06
Derrick wrote:Well the BNP would agree with Islam on it's barbaric treatment of Homosexuals.
Bring the BNP in to teach the kids about Islam, they would get the truth about this wicked faith then instead of the educationist's politically correct sanitised version of it being pushed down their throats!
Plus they are out and out racists (and Muslims are NOT a race!).
Plus they are mostly religious nutters as well.
It's a disgrace that we call on the BNP to do what the mainstream parties (AND US) should be doing as far as Islam goes!
We need the BNP stance without all the other garbage that comes with the BNP!
IF we have to use animals like the BNP to halt Islam...I guess we'll have to.
But then we have to ensure we deal with the BNP right after!!!
Out of Town, says...
12:04am Sat 30 Dec 06
dave b,
i just hope ur at war with the republic of ireland, and all catholics if that is your case against islam
you seem to forget that there are MILLIONS of muslims living peacefully alongside us in the this country.
and were there islamic extremists in this country BEFORE this country started an ILLEGAL war with Iraq?? NO, the fact is, whatever happens tomorrow is a response and a fight back for what 'WE' have done to the rest of the world
what we have seen so far is nothing compared to the damage and loss of life we have caused Iraqi / Afghani people
I refuse to stand alongside america, who only acts in its OWN interest.
i feel more loyalty to fellow BRITISH people who are muslim, than an american government who have led our country into the position we are in now
i just hope ur at war with the republic of ireland, and all catholics if that is your case against islam
you seem to forget that there are MILLIONS of muslims living peacefully alongside us in the this country.
and were there islamic extremists in this country BEFORE this country started an ILLEGAL war with Iraq?? NO, the fact is, whatever happens tomorrow is a response and a fight back for what 'WE' have done to the rest of the world
what we have seen so far is nothing compared to the damage and loss of life we have caused Iraqi / Afghani people
I refuse to stand alongside america, who only acts in its OWN interest.
i feel more loyalty to fellow BRITISH people who are muslim, than an american government who have led our country into the position we are in now
usabikes, says...
12:40am Sat 30 Dec 06
abdul wrote:Abdul, you are doing the same thing on justice issues in Islamic countries as almost every other Muslim I have talked to - you are refusing to make any comment. You may have noticed that in the West we criticise such things irrespective of whether the govt or party in question is our own.
usabikes - you cant blame the policys of secular govements in the Muslim world today on Islam.... as for why people in the west are turning to Islam... well this a very interesting point.... secular society (due to it\'s historic experiance with Christianity and chrisitan rule before the advent of secularism) belive that religion is somthing that you can never prove. However Islam from the very start invited people to think and brings proof to justify this with CERTANTY. This is why people who pracice Islam or convert to Islam have peace of mind and they know with intellectual certanty that they are on the right path. Another way to look at this is that if the Quran is not from god them why has not one single human being on the fact of the earth in the last 1400 years been able to prove that the Quran is not from god: http://theinimitablequran.com/
Again like others I have discussed the plagerisms, inaccuracies and contradictions in the Quran, you are also refusing to engage in critical analysis of it. The Pope disagrees with you, in that he maintains that religion must be "reasonable". This would representative of most if not all Christians. But not Muslims it seems.
usabikes, says...
1:03am Sat 30 Dec 06
Out of Town wrote:Sorry Out of town, but there certainly were Muslim extremists in Britain before the invasion of Iraq. Patrick Sookdheo pointed out several years ago that 5000 British Muslims had been trained in terror camps in Pakistan and were now back "sleeping" in Britain. This is well before the govt came out a month or so ago and quoted those figures - and guess where they got them from. Don't forget the have been many years of terrorism directed against the West, mainly the US, before 9/11.
dave b, i just hope ur at war with the republic of ireland, and all catholics if that is your case against islam you seem to forget that there are MILLIONS of muslims living peacefully alongside us in the this country. and were there islamic extremists in this country BEFORE this country started an ILLEGAL war with Iraq?? NO, the fact is, whatever happens tomorrow is a response and a fight back for what 'WE' have done to the rest of the world what we have seen so far is nothing compared to the damage and loss of life we have caused Iraqi / Afghani people I refuse to stand alongside america, who only acts in its OWN interest. i feel more loyalty to fellow BRITISH people who are muslim, than an american government who have led our country into the position we are in now
At 9/11 Bin Laden said this "humiliation" he had inflicted on the US was nothing compared to the 80 years of humiliation the Muslim world had sufferred. Now, what happened 80 odd years before to cause this? The Balfour Declaration which promised the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine in return for the help of International Jewry to help end WW1. No, this is not antisemitism - just check Wikipedia under "Balfour Declaration" - its just history.
We must do our best to take care of the many Muslims living peacefully in our countries, but those butchers who base their lives and actions on those of Muhammad and the Sharia law - they will never be appeased I'm afraid.
It is almost incredibly simplistic to say that "we started it, its all our fault" when conquest is enshrined in Islamic law, in the actions of Muhammad and in the actions of his immediate followers who conquered by the sword the whole of North Africa, Spain, the fertile crescent and Central Asia within 100 years of his death.
The Prophet only engaged in what is called the "greater" Jihad of internal struggle after he had finished making war (the lesser Jihad). He made treaties and broke them when convenient, he slaughtered captives, he took slaves, he had sex with a 9 year old, he provided "protection" to "people of the book" - Jews & Christians, the "Dhimmi" - but only in the same way the Mafia provides protection. Compare these actions with those of Jesus and his immediate followers - such a man would hardly be called a prophet of God if he were to appear today.
My plea is still that we love our Muslim neighbours & educate ourselves on the truth of Islam (and for that matter Christianity) and not simply swallow what we are being spoon fed and then regurgitate it when we're squeezed.
N B, says...
1:38am Sat 30 Dec 06
It is not for us to live alongside Muslims, in case you had forgotten this is the UK, it is for Muslims to live alongside us and integrate with us, that means abiding by our laws, cultures, history, customs and way of life, they have a choice, no one is forcing them to live here, if they dont like it there are plenty of countries that live under Sharia law and practice Islam, this is a christian country and we dont want Islam shoving down our throats. Out of Town, I remember RE lessons learning about OUR religion for which a lot has been forgotten, if I wanted so desperately to learn about bloody Islam I would go to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan. In case you blinkered people hadnt noticed, the Muslims have no intention of living "peacefully" alongside us, remember 7/7 - remember the protests in London, I seem to recall Muslims holding placards which read, UK the real holocaust is on its way - now you tell me the BNP are evil and wicked, since when did they blow up tube trains, buses, planes, etc etc? for gods sake when will you liberals (commies) realise, I will tell you when - when its too bloody late!!!!!
CK, says...
5:01am Sat 30 Dec 06
I strongly suggest again, Muslims who do not like our country, its people and our way of life go back to your own country or your forefathers country and take the treacherous, politically correct, misguided traitors like "Out of Town" with you.
Obviously they would be much happier living in a Muslim country where the word "freedom" doesn't enter the vocabulary!
Obviously they would be much happier living in a Muslim country where the word "freedom" doesn't enter the vocabulary!
Dave B., says...
9:40am Sat 30 Dec 06
Out of Town wrote:Dear me!
dave b,
i just hope ur at war with the republic of ireland, and all catholics if that is your case against islam
you seem to forget that there are MILLIONS of muslims living peacefully alongside us in the this country.
and were there islamic extremists in this country BEFORE this country started an ILLEGAL war with Iraq?? NO, the fact is, whatever happens tomorrow is a response and a fight back for what 'WE' have done to the rest of the world
what we have seen so far is nothing compared to the damage and loss of life we have caused Iraqi / Afghani people
I refuse to stand alongside america, who only acts in its OWN interest.
i feel more loyalty to fellow BRITISH people who are muslim, than an american government who have led our country into the position we are in now
9/11 was before Iraq or Afghanistan!! Have you not got a calender?
The attack on the American war ship was also before 9/11. As was the first attack on the World Trade Centre by Islamists!
One recent terrorist suspect in UK Court said that when the Uk was discussed as a target BEFORE IRAQ it was turned down. Not so after Iraq.
Did you see that word? BEFORE!
And why link Afghanistan in with Iraq?
Yet agin you so NO KNOWLEDGE of anything you bleat about.
Afghnistan was a legal, U.N. backed, mission against a known and specific terrorist training ground linked to 9/11.
It was also one of the worst and most oppressive Islamic regimes in the World!
Even out of power The Taliban still manage to brutalise women who have professional jobs and BUTCHER teachers who try to educate girls!!
You lack all knowledge!
And as far as Iraq...If Muslims cared so much about Muslims dying in Iraq where were the British Muslims blowing themselves up in Baghdad when Saddam was murdering and torturing Muslims?
AND THE BIG ONE.....If they care so much about Muslims dying in Iraq why are 99.9% of all Muslims dying in Iraq now dying at the hands of other Muslims???
The only real death and destruction in Iraq now is one lot of Muslims killing another lot of Muslims (WOMEN, CHILDREN, IN MOSQUES, ON HOLY DAYS, BY SHRINES!) because they are the wrong kind of Muslim!!
A thousand years of typically barabric Muslim hate is still being played out in Iraq...And that's nothing to do with anyone other than themselves!!
Heads are routinely found dumped in Iraq's streets. Women are rountinely raped and murdered. Children routinely blown up in market squares.
And it's not us or the Americans doing it...IT'S MUSLIMS.
You are not even worth having a discussion with quite frankly as you don't even have the most basic knowledge of what you are trying to talk about.
And The IRA may have been Catholic...But they did not have a Catholic cause!! How slow are you???
The IRA wanted a specific thing...an indepenent Ireland. There was no religious cuase to so with Catholicism!!!
A Black African Catholic would have no interest in the Catholic IRA man's cause!
That is not the case with Islam and Muslims!!
They ALL, no matter where they are, share the exact same religious cause and blanket doctrines and rules.
Islam's cause is to spread Islam around the globe in all countries using Muslims of many races all under the same 'flag'.
Jihad is a GLOBAL Muslim/Islamic cause.
An independent Ireland WAS NOT a global Catholic cause!!
WAKE UP.
And as for Muslims living peacfully here...well they are either NOT devout Muslims or they are simply time-bombs waiting to go off!
After all one of the 7/7 scum was a well liked teaching assistant in school! UNTIL ISLAM CALLED AND THE ISDLAMIC CAUSE TOOK POWER OVER *EVERYTHING* ELSE!
The Islamist threat has been officially described as bigger than the IRA threat. We already have hundreds of suspects CHARGED in dozens of plots. The Courts are officially overwhelmed by the sheer number of cases!
You're blind, PC, ignorant of the facts and I hope you wake up soon!
Dave B., says...
9:54am Sat 30 Dec 06
And on the Catholic/IRA thing, as it keeps being used by apologists.
You did not see Catholics of all races around the world carrying out IRA based atatcks!!
yet we have (White, Black, Asian, Arab) Muslims in Bali, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Africa, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Saudi, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Iraq, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Spain, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab)in France, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab)in Indonesia, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Pakistan, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in America, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Holland and Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Britain (TO NAME JUST A FEW)....carrying out terrorist crimes, or helping and supporting these crimes, or making threats, are supporting extremist Islamic causes!!
The IRA and it's cuase was not remotely global or all encompassing to Catholics.
As we can see...That does not apply to the Islamic cause and Muslims.
You did not see Catholics of all races around the world carrying out IRA based atatcks!!
yet we have (White, Black, Asian, Arab) Muslims in Bali, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Africa, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Saudi, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Iraq, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Spain, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab)in France, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab)in Indonesia, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Pakistan, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in America, Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Holland and Muslims (White, Black, Asian, Arab) in Britain (TO NAME JUST A FEW)....carrying out terrorist crimes, or helping and supporting these crimes, or making threats, are supporting extremist Islamic causes!!
The IRA and it's cuase was not remotely global or all encompassing to Catholics.
As we can see...That does not apply to the Islamic cause and Muslims.
Philip, says...
12:17pm Sat 30 Dec 06
Is History Repeating Itself?
As we enter a new year we take with us the continued threat of terrorism from Islamic fundametalists.
However, this is not be the only threat to our way of life and culture:
In 622AD the Jews of Medina allowed Muhammad & his refugee Muslims to settle there in a welcoming tolerant atmosphere. Such a treaty of mutual protection and nonaggression was truly offered by the Jews soon afterwards, this constituted a gesture of offering further refuge, protection and peace to the Muslims by the Medina Jews but not vice-versa. In other words, the gesture of peace was shown by the Jews towards the helpless Muslim community, not the other way round.
the Muslims grew quickly in strength & what followed as a result of the Jews offering refuge and treaties of protection was a tragedy on their community. The Jews had to pay a heavy price for offering refuge and peace to the community of Prophet Muhammad? The eviction and annihilation of Jewish clans for no major offences (there are some flimsy claims by Muslims only without substantiation) is a clear evidence of that.
Furthermore, isn't it true that most of the treaties, which the Prophet had signed with the non-Muslims, were eventually broken by the Prophet himself on minor and often unsubstantiated offences or breaches of the non-Muslim parties? The treaty of Hudaibiya with the Mecca citizens was signed for a period of 10 years in 628 AD but was broken by the Prophet on a petty excuse when barely into its second year. They broke it just because the Muslims had become an indomitable force to take over Mecca by that time and they did not want to wait another eight years for the terms of the treaty to expire. This was proven when Muhammad truly attacked Mecca in 630, subdued the citizens, captured their age-old sacred temple of Kaba and destroyed all the idols housed therein.
This is a welcoming country benefiting from a rich diverse democratic culture. However, the quote that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance will be even more vital in 2007 as the threats will not always come from the obvious, but maybe from a Trojan horse protesting its peaceful intent!
The number of Muslims are growing in numbers rapidly - this inept Labour government and the PC brigade welcome them as "refugees". The Muslims protest loudly that they are peaceful as did their paedophile prophet Muhammed (may he rot in ****). As soon as they are strong in numbers and power just watch them start to take over.
We must stop the rot now. THe PC brigade won't reailse until its too late!!!
As we enter a new year we take with us the continued threat of terrorism from Islamic fundametalists.
However, this is not be the only threat to our way of life and culture:
In 622AD the Jews of Medina allowed Muhammad & his refugee Muslims to settle there in a welcoming tolerant atmosphere. Such a treaty of mutual protection and nonaggression was truly offered by the Jews soon afterwards, this constituted a gesture of offering further refuge, protection and peace to the Muslims by the Medina Jews but not vice-versa. In other words, the gesture of peace was shown by the Jews towards the helpless Muslim community, not the other way round.
the Muslims grew quickly in strength & what followed as a result of the Jews offering refuge and treaties of protection was a tragedy on their community. The Jews had to pay a heavy price for offering refuge and peace to the community of Prophet Muhammad? The eviction and annihilation of Jewish clans for no major offences (there are some flimsy claims by Muslims only without substantiation) is a clear evidence of that.
Furthermore, isn't it true that most of the treaties, which the Prophet had signed with the non-Muslims, were eventually broken by the Prophet himself on minor and often unsubstantiated offences or breaches of the non-Muslim parties? The treaty of Hudaibiya with the Mecca citizens was signed for a period of 10 years in 628 AD but was broken by the Prophet on a petty excuse when barely into its second year. They broke it just because the Muslims had become an indomitable force to take over Mecca by that time and they did not want to wait another eight years for the terms of the treaty to expire. This was proven when Muhammad truly attacked Mecca in 630, subdued the citizens, captured their age-old sacred temple of Kaba and destroyed all the idols housed therein.
This is a welcoming country benefiting from a rich diverse democratic culture. However, the quote that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance will be even more vital in 2007 as the threats will not always come from the obvious, but maybe from a Trojan horse protesting its peaceful intent!
The number of Muslims are growing in numbers rapidly - this inept Labour government and the PC brigade welcome them as "refugees". The Muslims protest loudly that they are peaceful as did their paedophile prophet Muhammed (may he rot in ****). As soon as they are strong in numbers and power just watch them start to take over.
We must stop the rot now. THe PC brigade won't reailse until its too late!!!
Philip, says...
12:26pm Sat 30 Dec 06
I forgot to mention that most of the "peace" treaties Muhammed (may he rot in H.ell), organised were one way and with threatening intent. Ie - you can live with us (note with us even though they were invaders or "refugees") but if you do the slightest thing we disagree with then we will murder your men, rape your women and children then massacre them before taking your land and possessions and occupying what was once yours.
Islam a true religion of peace - yeah right.
Have you notived that most of the Muslims or their pc apologists never seem to answer any of the facts we quote from the history of Islam, the current holocausts going on in Islamic states and the vile content of the Qu'ran???
Islam a true religion of peace - yeah right.
Have you notived that most of the Muslims or their pc apologists never seem to answer any of the facts we quote from the history of Islam, the current holocausts going on in Islamic states and the vile content of the Qu'ran???
Jerry Hart, says...
10:14am Fri 22 Dec 06
Well, it's possible this head teacher was being quoted out of context. However, on its own the comment is typical of a politically-correct near-fascism that is rightly being challenged in many debates these days. Parents are entitled to be concerned and to have their concerns listened to. Labelling them 'divisive' or somehow hostile to good community relations doesn't help.
Perhaps what would help is paying greater attention to the difference between Islam as a religion as opposed to Islam as a political doctrine. I suspect it's the latter that people instinctively object to, as this lies at the root of the problem. Perhaps the Muslim leader who has offered to meet with parents can deal with this, and take the opportunity to openly and publicly reject Islam as an alternative to the liberal democracy that currently safeguards his free speech.