Gun ‘obsessive’ fails to get back weapons

This Is Wiltshire: Swindon Crown Court Swindon Crown Court

A MAN who police say was obsessed with guns has failed in a bid to get his firearms licence back.

Matthew Payne had the permission to hold the shotguns and rifles revoked after he was accused of threatening to kill his partner and later himself.

But the 49-year-old lorry driver was not convicted of any offences after his girlfriend Lisa Minnear withdrew her allegations against him.

And he insisted police officers who said they heard him making comments about suicide must have been mistaken.

Judge Douglas Field, sitting at Swindon Crown Court with two magistrates, was told how Payne was arrested in March last year following a domestic incident.

It was said he had thrown a crutch at Miss Minnear and had, months earlier, made a threat to shoot her.

He was taken to the police station and questioned where he admitted losing his rag, throwing the crutch and behaving in an aggressive manner.

But when he was being released on bail two police officers said they were concerned about his behaviour towards the guns after being told they would be held.

Insp Paul Longden was working in the custody unit at 2.30am when he spoke to him about his ‘obsessive behaviour around the potential loss of his firearms’.

He said he took the rare step of going through the risk management process himself after one of his colleagues had already done it.

“I expected to see a calm rational discussion about the weapons. I might have expected him to be slightly upset about it,” he said.

“He turned to me and said ‘To be honest, I am going to kill myself'.’ The experienced firearms commander said he was satisfied Payne was not gong to commit suicide.

But he said he made a note of it because he was concerned about him having a licence adding ‘I have never had that level of concern before.’ Under cross examination the Inspector insisted the man had not said ‘You have taken away my life’s work: my life’s hobby.’ PC Timothy Rich, who had been at the house earlier that night, bumped into Payne outside the police station and said he made a similar comment to him.

He told the court he said “Because these guns were being taken off him he was going to end his life”, again the officer insisting he hadn’t misheard.

PC Rich said he explained to him how the system worked for getting the five rifles and three shotguns back but he “was not listening to the advice.”

Edward Pleeth, for Wiltshire Police, said following his arrest Payne breached the sole bail condition to not contact Miss Minnear by sending her texts and phoning her.

After she made a retraction statement the prosecution was stopped, but his firearms licence was reviewed and revoked.

“We say this is a man who is obsessive with his weapons and makes off the cuff comments, or jokes as he may say, but we say illustrates acting in an impulsive and irresponsible way,” Mr Pleeth said.

Payne, of Clementine Road, Oakhurst, insisted he had never made the threats and was a responsible firearms owner who also trained gundogs.

The judge and magistrates found in favour of the police and upheld the revocation of his firearms licence.

Comments (18)

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6:54am Tue 4 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

Blimey a sensible decision for once from our courts, whatever next!
Blimey a sensible decision for once from our courts, whatever next! house on the hill

9:42am Tue 4 Feb 14

Davey Gravey says...

Nobody should be allowed a gun. Take those blood thirsty morons who enjoy shooting birds and animals for their own twisted enjoyment
Nobody should be allowed a gun. Take those blood thirsty morons who enjoy shooting birds and animals for their own twisted enjoyment Davey Gravey

10:55am Tue 4 Feb 14

Oik1 says...

So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc?
There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature.
You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry.
I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call.
So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc? There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature. You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry. I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call. Oik1

11:06am Tue 4 Feb 14

Davey Gravey says...

Oik1 wrote:
So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc?
There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature.
You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry.
I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call.
Nothing against Clay pigeon shooting etc as long as it was in a controlled environment and the guns were handed in and locked away at the sessions end. I'd guess plenty of those type practice to then go and kill animals and birds though. I don't think any individual should be allowed to own a gun or keep one in their home.
[quote][p][bold]Oik1[/bold] wrote: So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc? There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature. You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry. I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call.[/p][/quote]Nothing against Clay pigeon shooting etc as long as it was in a controlled environment and the guns were handed in and locked away at the sessions end. I'd guess plenty of those type practice to then go and kill animals and birds though. I don't think any individual should be allowed to own a gun or keep one in their home. Davey Gravey

11:08am Tue 4 Feb 14

benzss says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Oik1 wrote:
So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc?
There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature.
You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry.
I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call.
Nothing against Clay pigeon shooting etc as long as it was in a controlled environment and the guns were handed in and locked away at the sessions end. I'd guess plenty of those type practice to then go and kill animals and birds though. I don't think any individual should be allowed to own a gun or keep one in their home.
Why?
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oik1[/bold] wrote: So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc? There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature. You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry. I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call.[/p][/quote]Nothing against Clay pigeon shooting etc as long as it was in a controlled environment and the guns were handed in and locked away at the sessions end. I'd guess plenty of those type practice to then go and kill animals and birds though. I don't think any individual should be allowed to own a gun or keep one in their home.[/p][/quote]Why? benzss

11:11am Tue 4 Feb 14

Davey Gravey says...

benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Oik1 wrote:
So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc?
There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature.
You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry.
I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call.
Nothing against Clay pigeon shooting etc as long as it was in a controlled environment and the guns were handed in and locked away at the sessions end. I'd guess plenty of those type practice to then go and kill animals and birds though. I don't think any individual should be allowed to own a gun or keep one in their home.
Why?
Temptation for the owner. Doesn't send out the right message in my opinion.
[quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oik1[/bold] wrote: So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc? There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature. You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry. I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call.[/p][/quote]Nothing against Clay pigeon shooting etc as long as it was in a controlled environment and the guns were handed in and locked away at the sessions end. I'd guess plenty of those type practice to then go and kill animals and birds though. I don't think any individual should be allowed to own a gun or keep one in their home.[/p][/quote]Why?[/p][/quote]Temptation for the owner. Doesn't send out the right message in my opinion. Davey Gravey

11:14am Tue 4 Feb 14

benzss says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
benzss wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Oik1 wrote:
So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc?
There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature.
You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry.
I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call.
Nothing against Clay pigeon shooting etc as long as it was in a controlled environment and the guns were handed in and locked away at the sessions end. I'd guess plenty of those type practice to then go and kill animals and birds though. I don't think any individual should be allowed to own a gun or keep one in their home.
Why?
Temptation for the owner. Doesn't send out the right message in my opinion.
Temptation in what way? And what message?
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]benzss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oik1[/bold] wrote: So Davey no one should be allowed to practice clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting and Skeet etc? There are many gun owners who would never and have never been out and shot any living creature. You really do need to get out of your box a little more and see what happens around you before condemn all and sundry. I have to agree, in my view the judge was spot on with his decision, good call.[/p][/quote]Nothing against Clay pigeon shooting etc as long as it was in a controlled environment and the guns were handed in and locked away at the sessions end. I'd guess plenty of those type practice to then go and kill animals and birds though. I don't think any individual should be allowed to own a gun or keep one in their home.[/p][/quote]Why?[/p][/quote]Temptation for the owner. Doesn't send out the right message in my opinion.[/p][/quote]Temptation in what way? And what message? benzss

11:14am Tue 4 Feb 14

molly60 says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Nobody should be allowed a gun. Take those blood thirsty morons who enjoy shooting birds and animals for their own twisted enjoyment
I certainly would shoot a burglar ,mugger or someone who threatened my or my families life .Live in the real world shall we ,you can become a statistic I wont.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Nobody should be allowed a gun. Take those blood thirsty morons who enjoy shooting birds and animals for their own twisted enjoyment[/p][/quote]I certainly would shoot a burglar ,mugger or someone who threatened my or my families life .Live in the real world shall we ,you can become a statistic I wont. molly60

11:22am Tue 4 Feb 14

Davey Gravey says...

@ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK.

@ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too.
@ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK. @ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too. Davey Gravey

11:27am Tue 4 Feb 14

benzss says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
@ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK.

@ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too.
Does gun ownership cause people to be *more likely* to shoot other people? Are you sure about that?

And there is an argument to be had that a burglar is less likely to invade a home he or she thinks is armed.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: @ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK. @ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too.[/p][/quote]Does gun ownership cause people to be *more likely* to shoot other people? Are you sure about that? And there is an argument to be had that a burglar is less likely to invade a home he or she thinks is armed. benzss

11:32am Tue 4 Feb 14

molly60 says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
@ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK.

@ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too.
Only one way to get rid of vermin.....eliminate it altogether. Oh by the way we all have dangerous weapons on our person, if you got the guts and knowhow how to use your hands.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: @ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK. @ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too.[/p][/quote]Only one way to get rid of vermin.....eliminate it altogether. Oh by the way we all have dangerous weapons on our person, if you got the guts and knowhow how to use your hands. molly60

11:35am Tue 4 Feb 14

ChannelX says...


"To be honest, I am going to kill myself"


Any update on this?
[quote] "To be honest, I am going to kill myself" [/quote] Any update on this? ChannelX

11:55am Tue 4 Feb 14

Davey Gravey says...

ChannelX wrote:

"To be honest, I am going to kill myself"


Any update on this?
If anyone were in doubt of what a horrible and twisted excuse for a human you are, they will know now.
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote] "To be honest, I am going to kill myself" [/quote] Any update on this?[/p][/quote]If anyone were in doubt of what a horrible and twisted excuse for a human you are, they will know now. Davey Gravey

12:19pm Tue 4 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
@ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK.

@ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too.
Come on there are only 35,000 gun deaths a year in the USA Davey, so clearly having "the right to bare arms" works really well!!!!!!

The gun debate will never be won on either side of the Atlantic and does someone burgling your house for things you are insured for really justify you killing them? Seriously?

The problem is policing the ownership is impossible and you cant legislate for what idiots do when they get drunk if they own a gun. There are responsible people out there for whom owning a gun wouldn't be a problem but there are far too many for whom it definitely would be!
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: @ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK. @ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too.[/p][/quote]Come on there are only 35,000 gun deaths a year in the USA Davey, so clearly having "the right to bare arms" works really well!!!!!! The gun debate will never be won on either side of the Atlantic and does someone burgling your house for things you are insured for really justify you killing them? Seriously? The problem is policing the ownership is impossible and you cant legislate for what idiots do when they get drunk if they own a gun. There are responsible people out there for whom owning a gun wouldn't be a problem but there are far too many for whom it definitely would be! house on the hill

1:19pm Tue 4 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
ChannelX wrote:

"To be honest, I am going to kill myself"


Any update on this?
If anyone were in doubt of what a horrible and twisted excuse for a human you are, they will know now.
And if anyone was tempted to make the mistake of thinking you might have some level of a sense of humour, they won't now.

If you spent more time reading the worthwhile opinions offered here, rather than simply insulting people and blindingly sticking to what you misguidedly *think* is right, you might find yourself becoming slightly better educated.

Just give the personal attacks and automatic 'thumbs down' voting a rest for five minutes, you may even feel better for it.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote] "To be honest, I am going to kill myself" [/quote] Any update on this?[/p][/quote]If anyone were in doubt of what a horrible and twisted excuse for a human you are, they will know now.[/p][/quote]And if anyone was tempted to make the mistake of thinking you might have some level of a sense of humour, they won't now. If you spent more time reading the worthwhile opinions offered here, rather than simply insulting people and blindingly sticking to what you misguidedly *think* is right, you might find yourself becoming slightly better educated. Just give the personal attacks and automatic 'thumbs down' voting a rest for five minutes, you may even feel better for it. ChannelX

1:32pm Tue 4 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

house on the hill wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
@ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK.

@ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too.
Come on there are only 35,000 gun deaths a year in the USA Davey, so clearly having "the right to bare arms" works really well!!!!!!

The gun debate will never be won on either side of the Atlantic and does someone burgling your house for things you are insured for really justify you killing them? Seriously?

The problem is policing the ownership is impossible and you cant legislate for what idiots do when they get drunk if they own a gun. There are responsible people out there for whom owning a gun wouldn't be a problem but there are far too many for whom it definitely would be!
Oddly enough, many countries high levels of gun ownership actually have lower homicide rates than the UK (Norway, Finland and Denmark are examples). Also, the majority of worldwide evidence shows that, in developed countries, violent crime rates are LOWER in countries where gun ownership is at higher levels.

And let's not forget, there are around 10,000 recorded crimes each year in the UK where guns are used. It's clear that pretty much anyone who wants to use a gun in the UK will do so, illegally and in the knowledge that the rest of us will be at a disadvantage.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: @ benzss the temptation to shoot people or other living things. The message that having a gun is OK. @ Molly owning guns works well in say the USA doesn't it. Not ! Guns breed violence and death. If you own a gun and it was legal then the burglar is more likely to arm themself too.[/p][/quote]Come on there are only 35,000 gun deaths a year in the USA Davey, so clearly having "the right to bare arms" works really well!!!!!! The gun debate will never be won on either side of the Atlantic and does someone burgling your house for things you are insured for really justify you killing them? Seriously? The problem is policing the ownership is impossible and you cant legislate for what idiots do when they get drunk if they own a gun. There are responsible people out there for whom owning a gun wouldn't be a problem but there are far too many for whom it definitely would be![/p][/quote]Oddly enough, many countries high levels of gun ownership actually have lower homicide rates than the UK (Norway, Finland and Denmark are examples). Also, the majority of worldwide evidence shows that, in developed countries, violent crime rates are LOWER in countries where gun ownership is at higher levels. And let's not forget, there are around 10,000 recorded crimes each year in the UK where guns are used. It's clear that pretty much anyone who wants to use a gun in the UK will do so, illegally and in the knowledge that the rest of us will be at a disadvantage. ChannelX

7:43am Wed 5 Feb 14

swindondad says...

ChannelX,

The UK "gun crime" figures are in themselves miss leading as they include incidents where "toy guns", "bb guns", "air guns" and "imitation guns" are used.

The more important figure is the number of "gun deaths" (murder + suicide + accident).

The last 5 years that I could quickly find figures for were:

2011: 146
2010: 165
2009: 150
2008: 174
2007: 130

Whilst every death is a tragedy for the families of those concerned please do not try and create a big problem where there is not one.

I know the population of the USA is near 6 times ours but in 2010 there were 19,392 firearm-related suicides, and 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the US. So each person is still over 30 more likely to be killed by a gun in the USA than UK.
ChannelX, The UK "gun crime" figures are in themselves miss leading as they include incidents where "toy guns", "bb guns", "air guns" and "imitation guns" are used. The more important figure is the number of "gun deaths" (murder + suicide + accident). The last 5 years that I could quickly find figures for were: 2011: 146 2010: 165 2009: 150 2008: 174 2007: 130 Whilst every death is a tragedy for the families of those concerned please do not try and create a big problem where there is not one. I know the population of the USA is near 6 times ours but in 2010 there were 19,392 firearm-related suicides, and 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the US. So each person is still over 30 more likely to be killed by a gun in the USA than UK. swindondad

10:00am Wed 5 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

I'm not suggesting it's a huge problem in the UK, simply that the so-called 'ban' on guns doesn't actually stop anyone who wants to use one from using one. All it does is to ensure that law abiding citizens are kept at a disadvantage from those who are happy to break the law.

As I mentioned earlier, yet you ironically kept referring back to the States, there are plenty of countries with high (legal) gun ownership that have lower per capita gun crimes and gun related homicides than the UK, where guns are notionally 'banned'.
I'm not suggesting it's a huge problem in the UK, simply that the so-called 'ban' on guns doesn't actually stop anyone who wants to use one from using one. All it does is to ensure that law abiding citizens are kept at a disadvantage from those who are happy to break the law. As I mentioned earlier, yet you ironically kept referring back to the States, there are plenty of countries with high (legal) gun ownership that have lower per capita gun crimes and gun related homicides than the UK, where guns are notionally 'banned'. ChannelX

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