Mayor hits back at Assembly Hall boo boys
9:33am Wednesday 10th March 2010 in
The mayor of Warminster has slammed campaigners opposed to the town council’s proposed move from Dewey House to the Assembly Rooms.
Cllr Tony Nicklin was responding to claims made by Vision for Warminster campaigners, who have called for a town poll on the issue, as they say the move will cost a total of £1.7 million.
Former county councillor Steve Dancey and former deputy mayor of Warminster Paul Macdonald, who run the campaign website visionforwarminster.co.uk, are gathering signatures for a public meeting on the debate.
Cllr Nicklin believes the former councillors’ campaign is merely political and their facts are wrong.
He said: “This organisation is misrepresenting and are doing this for political reasons - they disagree with what the town council is doing.
“Everybody has the right to disagree and everybody has the right to come to the council and say that they don’t agree with what they are doing, but they are disagreeing with something we haven’t even agreed on.
“We go out to tender this month and at the end of April we will know whether we are on budget - we are looking at a figure of £800, 000 for the works, but that’s the only figure put before the town council, who have agreed for further investigations.
“The loan to the Public Works Loan Board has not yet been submitted.”
The town council wants to borrow £800,000 from the Public Works Loan Board, which will be paid back over a 25 year term fixed at a rate of 4.51 per cent, to fund the move.
The mayor also said the town council has been transparent with regards to the proposed plans.
“The plans were created in the summer last year and have been on exhibition since September in Dewey House and Assembly Rooms,” he said.
“There’s nothing secret about what we’re proposing.
“You can’t drag people to council meetings but the agendas are available to the public.”
The proposed refurbishment would create a hall for hire, a town council chamber, council offices, coffee shop and licensed bar.
The Assembly Rooms, which is currently losing about £60,000 a year, is likely to be closed for six months while work takes place.
The town council already has planning permission for the building’s change of use.
Comments(18)
onthesofa
says...
1:19pm Wed 10 Mar 10
onthesofa
says...
1:25pm Wed 10 Mar 10
The Equestrian Statue
says...
3:29pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Not Kate Price
says...
5:13pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Russell Hawker wrote:1. I am not a member of a political party 2. I think the expenditure amount proposed is absurd.3. I would like my Town Council to focus on the essential requirements of the community that are not currently met in Warminster - no need for a coffee shop and licensed bar then as there are a few in Warminster as far as I can remember - no need for a hall for hire as that need is already catered for. So just need to take a wrecking ball to that large shed called the Assembly Rooms and spend a little less on something more appropriate to ensure our modest needs are adequately met - let's leave the self serving empire building to egocentric Westbury and Trowbridge councillors - they are the experts.
Warminster is lucky to have a first class Mayor and a first class town council.
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The campaign by malcontents against the town council's attempts to make better use of the assembly Rooms is simply a LibDem campaign to undermine the credibility of the Conservatives who completely control all aspects of local Government in Warminster.
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I will be interested to see whether the LibDems succeeed in this campiagn and whether this campaign manages to use real and relevant facts or irrelevant "facts".
Jack Jello
says...
6:25pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Not defending the council but lets try and keep things realistic !
Dancey
says...
7:56pm Wed 10 Mar 10
I would like to correct the comment that this is a party political campaign - specifically that of the Lib Dems.
While I used to belong to the old Liberal Party in the 1980s I have never had any connection with the Lib Dems, Labour or the Conservatives and I don't plan on joining any party. I have no political axe to grind when it comes to the next general election - I will support the best candidate.
My only possible political interest could be in contesting the unitary elections in three years' time. A lot of water has to go under the bridge before that can happen.
All I can say is that I have lived in Warminster and district for all of my 51 years and care passionately about its future well-being.
Sadly the omens are not that good, although there are one or two green shoots.
Dancey
says...
8:00pm Wed 10 Mar 10
I would like to correct the comment that this is a party political campaign - specifically that of the Lib Dems.
While I used to belong to the old Liberal Party in the 1980s I have never had any connection with the Lib Dems, Labour or the Conservatives and I don't plan on joining any party. I have no political axe to grind when it comes to the next general election - I will support the best candidate.
My only possible political interest could be in contesting the unitary elections in three years' time. A lot of water has to go under the bridge before that can happen.
All I can say is that I have lived in Warminster and district for all of my 51 years and care passionately about its future well-being.
Sadly the omens are not that good, although there are one or two green shoots.
PS love the headline 'boys'
Russell Hawker
says...
9:25pm Wed 10 Mar 10
I've looked at your website several times in recent weeks. My first and continually deepening impression is that yours is a fully-fledged and clever LibDem campaign in all but a formal LibDem connection, though I accept that you and Mr MacDonald ran as Independents in the June 2009 Wiltshire Council elections against all sorts of party candidates.
It seems to me that what you are saying is what the LibDems are saying in one guise or another about similar topics. For example, the excellent LibDem town councillor (and former district and county cllr too) Paul Bachelor is saying almost exactly the same as you about the Assembly Rooms.
I can't see where you and Mr MacDonald think this is all leading for you, as you and Mr Macdonald are both highly intelligent and capable people who must know that you need either a very high and current local profile or major party membership to get elected ahead of standing and well-known town councillors ... and to get your proposals effected in Warrminster you will need to get elected to the unitary authority and become part of a LibDem administration or work out a way to brainwash the Conservatives to think like you.
I withdraw my comment about this being a LibDem campaign insofaras it is not formally connected or declared as such (though I do still think that somthing that looks like, sounds like and acts like an elephant is an elephant).
WP84
says...
10:08pm Wed 10 Mar 10
However, those who want this might as well have been stood with their fingers in their ears shouting "la la la" as they aren't interested in listening.
Elephants? The Assembly Rooms is a big white one - hence why the County got rid of it. It won't last the 25yr term of this so called mortgage without constant costly upkeep every few years - it's an ugly building that has never been fit for purpose. Get rid of it, don't patch it up.
Oh, and listen to those who live here and will be paying for it, not those who live in Westbury and love the sound of their own voice.
RHMAP
says...
10:46pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Russell Hawker
says...
6:02am Thu 11 Mar 10
.
Another reason is that I actually have met and know most of the members and am able to compare them to town councillors in, say, Westbury and Trowbridge. This may sound bizarre - but it's true: I actually sit on one of the Warminster Town Council committees as a non-voting member. That's enough about me as this thread is not about me (contrary to what a troll has put above).
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West Wiltshire District Council passed on the main assembly halls in each town to the town councils - not just in Warminster. In each case, the town councils saw them as major assets and community facilities that needed and deserved financial support as part of their ongoing balanced approach to providing or supporting an array of public facilities, projects or events to help make their town a better place.
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Town councils typically put money into a range of facilities and community projects, not of all of which some members of the public will appreciate. You can't make everyone happy about money spent on things that they personally don't care about ... and there is always people who seem to resent money spent on things they don't use whilst being happy to see more money spent on things they personally do use. It's a thankless and complex balancing act that only the current town councillors can decide and then be judged on in the next elections, which are now due (by Government Order which extended the current town council term by 2 years) in May 2013.
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Given Warminster Town Council's track record of having a relatively low council tax precept, I fully expect them to continue to maintain this .... they are looking to spread major investment costs over 25 years using a Government-backed low interest loan, which is a sound way of handling the spreading of the cost over several years.
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I would be astonished if a well-run town like Warminster abandoned its purpose-built Assembly Rooms by not looking closely at all options for keeping it open (including getting tenders in for any major works).
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Just the thoughts of someone who does know both Warminster and Westbury and the way local Government works in both towns ... and who the real players are ....
Russell Hawker
says...
6:14pm Thu 11 Mar 10
Not Kate Price wrote:Hmmm ... I meant in the local politics sense only.
'real' player as in - A guy who is sustaining supposedly exclusive relationships with multiple WOMEN/MEN simultaneously "that guy is a player".
Maccers
says...
11:51pm Thu 11 Mar 10
What is happening in Warminster is completely different.
The Town (parish) Council are being given the chance by local people to hold a referendum on their plans which will need funding by what is increasingly called a 'megaloan'.
The parish poll will cost a tiny fraction of the cost of the loan to give an indication of the public support for this.
If the mayor as figurehead of the town council wins this on behalf of them after what he has said today in the Wiltshire times then it is money well spent.
If he loses it then it is also money well spent. he says no decision has been taken and it can guide him and his colleagues.
Who loses? Nobody.
So stop trying to make those questioning town council behaviour mid-term appear as pariahs or discredited polticians (unlike those on huge expenses).
Who will remember in a few years time when they put themselves forward again anyway?
Or thinking back to enjoying Question Time are they fearful this could be hi-jacked from the concerned community by a political party?
And who is this 'Hawker' on the Warminster doorstep?
Russell Hawker
says...
1:54am Fri 12 Mar 10
I'm no-one "on the doorstep". I'm a town & unitary councillor in Westbury who knows Warminster and its councillors quite well and I simply see similar issues being discussed as in Westbury (albeit with differing levels of publicity etc) ... and I know that Warminster Councillors very rarely type anything into these comment threads.
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I think a town poll can be called by electors themselves but the Elections Dept at Wiltshire Council can confirm the procedure.
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The particular point I would make about town polls is that they simply tend to collect the view of the electorate who bother to vote on the issue (ie. it's a protest vote on an issue that the protestors are hot under the collar about but which most people will not usually be bothered with). Also, the "issue" needs to be stated very carefully and correctly on the ballot paper to have any real meaning ... but the result is simply a "guide" for the councillors on the subject - it is not an actual "decision" that revokes any existing decision of the town council or which forces the hands of the council in the future.
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The council would clearly need to take the poll result into account in how it handles the subject issue moving forward. Part of this process would be considering whether the poll asked the relevant question and whether the result properly reflects real facts and understanding about the issue (as the council sees it) or reflects the way a minority of campaigners possibly influenced a large number of protestors with misleading propaganda.
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My view is that quoting aggregate totals of all annual loan repayment cashflows over 25 years (the £1.7m mentioned in the article) without discounting the annual sums to proper "present value" figures (ie. taking account of inflation etc using proper mathematical discounting techniques) is very highly misleading. This is because you are comparing the current value of the investment (ie. the cost today - say, £800,000) with annual sums spread over 25 years into the future when the value of money in the future is reliably expected to be less due to inflation. Ignoring the effect of inflation on cashflows over a long period is a very very misleading way to compare current values or costs with future cashflow values or costs. As an investment analyst by training and a councillor as well, this is what prompted me to start looking at and commenting on this matter.
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To my professionally-train
ed mind, the anti-assembly hall campaign is fundamentally based on misleading propaganda using cashflow analyses that fail to recognise the real meaning of inflation and the need to express future cashflows in "present value" terms using proper Discounted Cashflow Techniques.
Not Kate Price
says...
8:04am Fri 12 Mar 10
RHMAP wrote:What lottery numbers are you picking sat? I'm hoping for a big win - I'm now in favour of the town council wasting money because I had never heard of 'inflation' b4 - I must pass this around warminster - thank god for outsiders - I was almost duped and will never trust anyone from warminster again (apart from the town councillors who are all first class). IT'S JUST LIKE WATCHING LARK RISE TO CANDELFORD - only a bit more real - now i know why i prefer the company of people clever enough to realise how stupid we are
Can we please get back on topic. This thread is about Russell Hawker.
Chesus
says...
1:05pm Fri 12 Mar 10
ed mind,"
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Your what?????
RHMAP
says...
1:07pm Fri 12 Mar 10
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42, 24,18,15,4,29
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Russell Hawker says...
11:09am Wed 10 Mar 10
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The campaign by malcontents against the town council's attempts to make better use of the assembly Rooms is simply a LibDem campaign to undermine the credibility of the Conservatives who completely control all aspects of local Government in Warminster.
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I will be interested to see whether the LibDems succeeed in this campiagn and whether this campaign manages to use real and relevant facts or irrelevant "facts".