Teachers defend strike action

This Is Wiltshire: NUT members march through Bristol yesterday NUT members march through Bristol yesterday

TEACHERS from schools across the town walked out yesterday as part of a national day of strike action by the National Union of Teachers.

The strike affected many secondary and primary schools, with some having to shut entirely while others were only open for certain year groups.

While some parents vented their frustration at the inconvenience caused by the action, those on strike argued it was vital for the long-term future of education.

Many Swindon strikers headed to Bristol to join thousands of other union members in a rally and march.

Among them was Tracy Mason of Crowdys Hill School, who said she was pleased with the turnout and hoped the Government heard the message.

She said: “I think it has been a good day and we got a lot of support from passers-by, with people tooting their horns. It was good to speak with other teachers and discuss the situations at other schools.

“The turnout was very good, especially as there were several other protests in the region.

“I think we did send the right message across and I hope the Government is listening. I hope we have the support of parents because it is for their children we are fighting.”

Also at the rally was Ian Hamilton, a maths teacher at Isambard School, who said the strike was a battle which needed to be won. “This is not a day off. We are losing a day’s pay and have come down to Bristol to make our point,” he said.

“This is a fight we have to win to ensure the standards remain high for the next 20 or 30 years. We want qualified teachers coming into the profession and for that we need to ensure there are good conditions, pay and pensions.

“We are fighting on the side of parents because things cannot continue as they have been.”

However, many parents were furious at the decision as for some it meant they had to miss a day of work to look after one child, despite others having to go because their school was open to certain year groups.

The day was part of an ongoing campaign which also saw strike action in Swindon take place last October. Then, the union was joined by the NASUWT, but due to talks that union pulled out of the latest action.

Swindon North MP Justin Tomlinson said: “I was very disappointed that the NUT members chose to strike, especially when the NASUWT decided not to join in because they felt the talks had been progressive.

“It has caused great inconvenience to parents and further more it denied many children a day of education. The changes are vital to ensure that the very best teachers progress up the pay scale.”

Comments (63)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

6:55am Thu 27 Mar 14

Traditional says...

Why choose to strike and make your problem a problem for everyone? You would have much more respect if you chose to protest during the weekend or god forbid during a school holiday. That way you are making a sacrifice to argue your point. Not bullying the people that pay your wages!
Why choose to strike and make your problem a problem for everyone? You would have much more respect if you chose to protest during the weekend or god forbid during a school holiday. That way you are making a sacrifice to argue your point. Not bullying the people that pay your wages! Traditional
  • Score: 25

7:21am Thu 27 Mar 14

stfcdod says...

Is NUT the most appropriately named Trades Union ever?
Is NUT the most appropriately named Trades Union ever? stfcdod
  • Score: 8

8:10am Thu 27 Mar 14

house on the hill says...

Traditional wrote:
Why choose to strike and make your problem a problem for everyone? You would have much more respect if you chose to protest during the weekend or god forbid during a school holiday. That way you are making a sacrifice to argue your point. Not bullying the people that pay your wages!
I think you will find the whole point of a strike is to cause as much disruption as possible and fuel this sort of coverage and debate.
[quote][p][bold]Traditional[/bold] wrote: Why choose to strike and make your problem a problem for everyone? You would have much more respect if you chose to protest during the weekend or god forbid during a school holiday. That way you are making a sacrifice to argue your point. Not bullying the people that pay your wages![/p][/quote]I think you will find the whole point of a strike is to cause as much disruption as possible and fuel this sort of coverage and debate. house on the hill
  • Score: 14

9:10am Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.
So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 11

9:25am Thu 27 Mar 14

ChannelX says...

house on the hill wrote:
Traditional wrote:
Why choose to strike and make your problem a problem for everyone? You would have much more respect if you chose to protest during the weekend or god forbid during a school holiday. That way you are making a sacrifice to argue your point. Not bullying the people that pay your wages!
I think you will find the whole point of a strike is to cause as much disruption as possible and fuel this sort of coverage and debate.
True, but sadly for the teachers, the public is almost entirely against their strike action and demands.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Traditional[/bold] wrote: Why choose to strike and make your problem a problem for everyone? You would have much more respect if you chose to protest during the weekend or god forbid during a school holiday. That way you are making a sacrifice to argue your point. Not bullying the people that pay your wages![/p][/quote]I think you will find the whole point of a strike is to cause as much disruption as possible and fuel this sort of coverage and debate.[/p][/quote]True, but sadly for the teachers, the public is almost entirely against their strike action and demands. ChannelX
  • Score: 11

9:26am Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

The Artist, without getting into a political slanging match on what evidence do you base your quote that standards have been slipping for the last two decades? More youngsters now come out of school with more qualifications. If anything I would say that teachers now are more regulated than they have ever been, they have less flexibility in what they are allowed to teach and children and teachers are tested, observed more than at any stage in history. I would agree with you though that the strike was primarily about pay, pensions and working conditions.
The Artist, without getting into a political slanging match on what evidence do you base your quote that standards have been slipping for the last two decades? More youngsters now come out of school with more qualifications. If anything I would say that teachers now are more regulated than they have ever been, they have less flexibility in what they are allowed to teach and children and teachers are tested, observed more than at any stage in history. I would agree with you though that the strike was primarily about pay, pensions and working conditions. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 0

9:58am Thu 27 Mar 14

Hmmmf says...

When a headline proudly declares "Teacher defend strike action" you know that the unionistas' 'fight for educational standards' has already been lost.
When a headline proudly declares "Teacher defend strike action" you know that the unionistas' 'fight for educational standards' has already been lost. Hmmmf
  • Score: 7

10:20am Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
The Artist, without getting into a political slanging match on what evidence do you base your quote that standards have been slipping for the last two decades? More youngsters now come out of school with more qualifications. If anything I would say that teachers now are more regulated than they have ever been, they have less flexibility in what they are allowed to teach and children and teachers are tested, observed more than at any stage in history. I would agree with you though that the strike was primarily about pay, pensions and working conditions.
My personal "evidence" is based on nearly 3 decades of being an employer. Particularly in English and Maths UK graduates - candidates are arriving to my door with insufficient skills to survive in the business world and we have to train them accordingly. This was not the case even 15 years ago.

Don't just believe me though, the OECD have said the same. http://www.theguardi
an.com/education/201
3/dec/03/uk-students
-education-oecd-pisa
-report
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The Artist, without getting into a political slanging match on what evidence do you base your quote that standards have been slipping for the last two decades? More youngsters now come out of school with more qualifications. If anything I would say that teachers now are more regulated than they have ever been, they have less flexibility in what they are allowed to teach and children and teachers are tested, observed more than at any stage in history. I would agree with you though that the strike was primarily about pay, pensions and working conditions.[/p][/quote]My personal "evidence" is based on nearly 3 decades of being an employer. Particularly in English and Maths UK graduates - candidates are arriving to my door with insufficient skills to survive in the business world and we have to train them accordingly. This was not the case even 15 years ago. Don't just believe me though, the OECD have said the same. http://www.theguardi an.com/education/201 3/dec/03/uk-students -education-oecd-pisa -report The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 11

10:28am Thu 27 Mar 14

swindondad says...

If teaching standards were as high as these NUT's make out this storey would not make international headlines:

17% of UK school leavers "functionaly illiterate.

http://www.teachingt
imes.com/articles/sc
hool-leavers-functio
nally-illiterate.htm
If teaching standards were as high as these NUT's make out this storey would not make international headlines: 17% of UK school leavers "functionaly illiterate. http://www.teachingt imes.com/articles/sc hool-leavers-functio nally-illiterate.htm swindondad
  • Score: 9

10:54am Thu 27 Mar 14

Hmmmf says...

Hmmmf wrote:
When a headline proudly declares "Teacher defend strike action" you know that the unionistas' 'fight for educational standards' has already been lost.
I see the Adver was shamed into correcting the headline. Left the photo caption as it was though. It's what comes of relying on technology and spell-checkers instead of basic literacy or educated editors.
[quote][p][bold]Hmmmf[/bold] wrote: When a headline proudly declares "Teacher defend strike action" you know that the unionistas' 'fight for educational standards' has already been lost.[/p][/quote]I see the Adver was shamed into correcting the headline. Left the photo caption as it was though. It's what comes of relying on technology and spell-checkers instead of basic literacy or educated editors. Hmmmf
  • Score: 5

11:02am Thu 27 Mar 14

PJC says...

swindondad wrote:
If teaching standards were as high as these NUT's make out this storey would not make international headlines:

17% of UK school leavers "functionaly illiterate.

http://www.teachingt

imes.com/articles/sc

hool-leavers-functio

nally-illiterate.htm
'storey'?????Back to skool!!!
[quote][p][bold]swindondad[/bold] wrote: If teaching standards were as high as these NUT's make out this storey would not make international headlines: 17% of UK school leavers "functionaly illiterate. http://www.teachingt imes.com/articles/sc hool-leavers-functio nally-illiterate.htm[/p][/quote]'storey'?????Back to skool!!! PJC
  • Score: -3

11:22am Thu 27 Mar 14

trolley dolley says...

By international standards are children are not doing well.

These militant teachers should be pulled out of any contact with our children and sacked.

What we need in our schools are dedicated professionals not militant trade unionists.
By international standards are children are not doing well. These militant teachers should be pulled out of any contact with our children and sacked. What we need in our schools are dedicated professionals not militant trade unionists. trolley dolley
  • Score: 8

11:33am Thu 27 Mar 14

SwindonWatcher says...

I wish I could have as much holiday as these behind the times people!!! About time they realised it is 2014!!!

And don't get me started on the "Let's have a teacher training day" the day after school holidays end!!!

Get back to work you lazy gits!! Educate the kids.

You chose to be a teacher, if you can't hack it...get out!!
I wish I could have as much holiday as these behind the times people!!! About time they realised it is 2014!!! And don't get me started on the "Let's have a teacher training day" the day after school holidays end!!! Get back to work you lazy gits!! Educate the kids. You chose to be a teacher, if you can't hack it...get out!! SwindonWatcher
  • Score: 6

12:07pm Thu 27 Mar 14

rebecca97 says...

U teachers chose ur own career & knew the pay/pension etc when you took the job!!! It's our children who are losing out! Iv got a child in yr11 & about to take important exams so can't afford time off! I, for one would love 13+ wks holiday a yr plus your ttd straight after half terms! You so say work long hrs?? I'm a domicillary nurse & can work 15hrs a day, no pension & zero hr contract... Am I on strike? No because I chose my career!!
Get back to work and do what you're paid to do instead of making the kids & parents suffer because of your career choice!!
U teachers chose ur own career & knew the pay/pension etc when you took the job!!! It's our children who are losing out! Iv got a child in yr11 & about to take important exams so can't afford time off! I, for one would love 13+ wks holiday a yr plus your ttd straight after half terms! You so say work long hrs?? I'm a domicillary nurse & can work 15hrs a day, no pension & zero hr contract... Am I on strike? No because I chose my career!! Get back to work and do what you're paid to do instead of making the kids & parents suffer because of your career choice!! rebecca97
  • Score: 5

12:33pm Thu 27 Mar 14

SwindonWatcher says...

To the teacher(s) clicking thumbs down on here.....I believe most people are against you not with you. Now get back to work ya lazy git(s)!!!!
To the teacher(s) clicking thumbs down on here.....I believe most people are against you not with you. Now get back to work ya lazy git(s)!!!! SwindonWatcher
  • Score: 3

12:50pm Thu 27 Mar 14

redtilldead says...

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.
I'm not a teacher. My son is.

What proof of standards falling can you prove.

My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's

The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job.

Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too.

Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers.

If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!
[quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.[/p][/quote]I'm not a teacher. My son is. What proof of standards falling can you prove. My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job. Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too. Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers. If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it! redtilldead
  • Score: -6

12:53pm Thu 27 Mar 14

SwindonWatcher says...

It is a career choice and no, most do not run classes in the holidays.

Whilst it is commendable your son does all this it again is his choice so get off your soapbox and realise the effect it is having on parents who lose money when their kids are off school due to antiquated striking!!!

Now, let's move along to the 21st century and stop strikes FFS!!!
It is a career choice and no, most do not run classes in the holidays. Whilst it is commendable your son does all this it again is his choice so get off your soapbox and realise the effect it is having on parents who lose money when their kids are off school due to antiquated striking!!! Now, let's move along to the 21st century and stop strikes FFS!!! SwindonWatcher
  • Score: 4

1:18pm Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

redtilldead wrote:
The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.
I'm not a teacher. My son is.

What proof of standards falling can you prove.

My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's

The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job.

Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too.

Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers.

If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!
I refer you to my previous response, where I detailed evidence provided by both personal experience as an employer, and from the OECD.

When such evidence is presented many trot out the same tired mantra: "If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars (sic) are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!"

I'm not saying it's easy. I've never said that, as very few worthwhile jobs are easy. Odd that it may seem to you, teachers do not have a monopoly on difficult jobs. Many teachers do a fantastic job, many do not, as in any other professions. With the UK languishing in international league tables the status quo cannot continue though. The education system is clearly failing our children and society is clearly struggling to motivate them to succeed.
[quote][p][bold]redtilldead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.[/p][/quote]I'm not a teacher. My son is. What proof of standards falling can you prove. My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job. Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too. Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers. If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it![/p][/quote]I refer you to my previous response, where I detailed evidence provided by both personal experience as an employer, and from the OECD. When such evidence is presented many trot out the same tired mantra: "If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars (sic) are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!" I'm not saying it's easy. I've never said that, as very few worthwhile jobs are easy. Odd that it may seem to you, teachers do not have a monopoly on difficult jobs. Many teachers do a fantastic job, many do not, as in any other professions. With the UK languishing in international league tables the status quo cannot continue though. The education system is clearly failing our children and society is clearly struggling to motivate them to succeed. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 4

1:21pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

Artist - your evidence is at best anecdotal and is more of a concern relating to graduate education? There have been plenty of studies which say that the UK is falling behind other developed nations in the educational hierarchy.(this only proves that other nations are overtaking us) You could however say that this is due to government interference. In the days when a UK education was amongst the best in the world there was little or no government intervention and no such thing as a nationally prescribed curriculum!

I find it very concerning that many posters on this site do not think that workers should be able to strike in the 21st century. Workers rights have been hard won over the last 150 years and as long as democratic process is followed and no laws are broken I would support any worker to take strike action should they need to. It would appear that we live in a society where everyone thinks of their own needs first, I lose money when my kids are home from school so teachers should not be able to strike. I also wonder if many of the posters on this site who denigrate teachers and call them things like lazy gits, have the educational abilities to enter into the profession themselves?
Artist - your evidence is at best anecdotal and is more of a concern relating to graduate education? There have been plenty of studies which say that the UK is falling behind other developed nations in the educational hierarchy.(this only proves that other nations are overtaking us) You could however say that this is due to government interference. In the days when a UK education was amongst the best in the world there was little or no government intervention and no such thing as a nationally prescribed curriculum! I find it very concerning that many posters on this site do not think that workers should be able to strike in the 21st century. Workers rights have been hard won over the last 150 years and as long as democratic process is followed and no laws are broken I would support any worker to take strike action should they need to. It would appear that we live in a society where everyone thinks of their own needs first, I lose money when my kids are home from school so teachers should not be able to strike. I also wonder if many of the posters on this site who denigrate teachers and call them things like lazy gits, have the educational abilities to enter into the profession themselves? Spurs Fan
  • Score: -4

1:28pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Davey Gravey says...

The usual clueless judgemental thick comments I see.
It's like the daily mail on here nowadays.

Ask yourselves why do many people are now put off becoming teachers and why many leave the profession.
The usual clueless judgemental thick comments I see. It's like the daily mail on here nowadays. Ask yourselves why do many people are now put off becoming teachers and why many leave the profession. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -4

1:31pm Thu 27 Mar 14

SwindonWatcher says...

Probably because it means working hard like the rest of us. We don't strike and down tools.

Too many people want to do nothing and get paid.....well hello, this is the real world
Probably because it means working hard like the rest of us. We don't strike and down tools. Too many people want to do nothing and get paid.....well hello, this is the real world SwindonWatcher
  • Score: 7

1:41pm Thu 27 Mar 14

redtilldead says...

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
redtilldead wrote:
The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote: So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.
I'm not a teacher. My son is. What proof of standards falling can you prove. My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job. Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too. Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers. If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!
I refer you to my previous response, where I detailed evidence provided by both personal experience as an employer, and from the OECD. When such evidence is presented many trot out the same tired mantra: "If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars (sic) are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!" I'm not saying it's easy. I've never said that, as very few worthwhile jobs are easy. Odd that it may seem to you, teachers do not have a monopoly on difficult jobs. Many teachers do a fantastic job, many do not, as in any other professions. With the UK languishing in international league tables the status quo cannot continue though. The education system is clearly failing our children and society is clearly struggling to motivate them to succeed.
What is failing our system is mant in our nation do not want to buy in to being educated. Its a cultural issue and agreed it is our society that is failing them.

Many of the countries above us in the league tables have children who are driven by parents who want to and make their children to learn. In China, the one child policy that has been so roundly condemned has been a fuel to drive desire to improve learning. They pay for their children to have more education. Our system rewards lethargy.

As a nation we dont respect teaching as a profession and its reflected in the way they are treated, remunerated. If you want the best you pay for it.
[quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redtilldead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.[/p][/quote]I'm not a teacher. My son is. What proof of standards falling can you prove. My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job. Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too. Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers. If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it![/p][/quote]I refer you to my previous response, where I detailed evidence provided by both personal experience as an employer, and from the OECD. When such evidence is presented many trot out the same tired mantra: "If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars (sic) are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!" I'm not saying it's easy. I've never said that, as very few worthwhile jobs are easy. Odd that it may seem to you, teachers do not have a monopoly on difficult jobs. Many teachers do a fantastic job, many do not, as in any other professions. With the UK languishing in international league tables the status quo cannot continue though. The education system is clearly failing our children and society is clearly struggling to motivate them to succeed.[/p][/quote]What is failing our system is mant in our nation do not want to buy in to being educated. Its a cultural issue and agreed it is our society that is failing them. Many of the countries above us in the league tables have children who are driven by parents who want to and make their children to learn. In China, the one child policy that has been so roundly condemned has been a fuel to drive desire to improve learning. They pay for their children to have more education. Our system rewards lethargy. As a nation we dont respect teaching as a profession and its reflected in the way they are treated, remunerated. If you want the best you pay for it. redtilldead
  • Score: -7

1:42pm Thu 27 Mar 14

house on the hill says...

ChannelX wrote:
house on the hill wrote:
Traditional wrote:
Why choose to strike and make your problem a problem for everyone? You would have much more respect if you chose to protest during the weekend or god forbid during a school holiday. That way you are making a sacrifice to argue your point. Not bullying the people that pay your wages!
I think you will find the whole point of a strike is to cause as much disruption as possible and fuel this sort of coverage and debate.
True, but sadly for the teachers, the public is almost entirely against their strike action and demands.
Absolutely, as I am totally!
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Traditional[/bold] wrote: Why choose to strike and make your problem a problem for everyone? You would have much more respect if you chose to protest during the weekend or god forbid during a school holiday. That way you are making a sacrifice to argue your point. Not bullying the people that pay your wages![/p][/quote]I think you will find the whole point of a strike is to cause as much disruption as possible and fuel this sort of coverage and debate.[/p][/quote]True, but sadly for the teachers, the public is almost entirely against their strike action and demands.[/p][/quote]Absolutely, as I am totally! house on the hill
  • Score: 5

1:48pm Thu 27 Mar 14

SwindonWatcher says...

Why are teachers striking?
Members of the NUT are taking industrial action over performance-related pay, pension changes and what it calls, excessive workload and bureaucracy.

The union says teachers are concerned about the impact these imposed changes are having on:

the morale of the profession
the recruitment and retention of teachers
the provision of quality education

The main concern is the introduction of a tougher version of performance-related pay and what the unions say is an attack on national pay structures.

So.......perform better, get paid more/properly. If I ma rubbish at my job I would not expect to get paid more. But hey, I was brought up to work and not expect high wages for being mediocre at a job.
Why are teachers striking? Members of the NUT are taking industrial action over performance-related pay, pension changes and what it calls, excessive workload and bureaucracy. The union says teachers are concerned about the impact these imposed changes are having on: the morale of the profession the recruitment and retention of teachers the provision of quality education The main concern is the introduction of a tougher version of performance-related pay and what the unions say is an attack on national pay structures. So.......perform better, get paid more/properly. If I ma rubbish at my job I would not expect to get paid more. But hey, I was brought up to work and not expect high wages for being mediocre at a job. SwindonWatcher
  • Score: 6

1:53pm Thu 27 Mar 14

house on the hill says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
The Artist, without getting into a political slanging match on what evidence do you base your quote that standards have been slipping for the last two decades? More youngsters now come out of school with more qualifications. If anything I would say that teachers now are more regulated than they have ever been, they have less flexibility in what they are allowed to teach and children and teachers are tested, observed more than at any stage in history. I would agree with you though that the strike was primarily about pay, pensions and working conditions.
The qualification depends on the value of it. If exams are being "dumbed down" then more qualifications doest mean overall higher standards. GCSE's aren't anywhere near to an "O" level! We are currently ranked 26th in Maths, 23rd in Reading and 21st in Science in the world is that really anything to be proud of?
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The Artist, without getting into a political slanging match on what evidence do you base your quote that standards have been slipping for the last two decades? More youngsters now come out of school with more qualifications. If anything I would say that teachers now are more regulated than they have ever been, they have less flexibility in what they are allowed to teach and children and teachers are tested, observed more than at any stage in history. I would agree with you though that the strike was primarily about pay, pensions and working conditions.[/p][/quote]The qualification depends on the value of it. If exams are being "dumbed down" then more qualifications doest mean overall higher standards. GCSE's aren't anywhere near to an "O" level! We are currently ranked 26th in Maths, 23rd in Reading and 21st in Science in the world is that really anything to be proud of? house on the hill
  • Score: 5

1:59pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

redtilldead: you make many intersting points. We as a nation do not value education in the same ways as many other countries, especially those in the far east. We also do not value, as we once did, those that enter into the teaching profession. Teachers now are expected to teach only what is prescribed by government. This was not the case before the mid 1980s. Funnily enough when most people say the rot set in. My own daughter with a first class degree who would make an excellent educator has adamantly said that she would never enter the profession because no one values it anymore. It is easier and more rewarding both financially and emotionally to work in business.
redtilldead: you make many intersting points. We as a nation do not value education in the same ways as many other countries, especially those in the far east. We also do not value, as we once did, those that enter into the teaching profession. Teachers now are expected to teach only what is prescribed by government. This was not the case before the mid 1980s. Funnily enough when most people say the rot set in. My own daughter with a first class degree who would make an excellent educator has adamantly said that she would never enter the profession because no one values it anymore. It is easier and more rewarding both financially and emotionally to work in business. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 2

2:00pm Thu 27 Mar 14

redtilldead says...

SwindonWatcher wrote:
Why are teachers striking? Members of the NUT are taking industrial action over performance-related pay, pension changes and what it calls, excessive workload and bureaucracy. The union says teachers are concerned about the impact these imposed changes are having on: the morale of the profession the recruitment and retention of teachers the provision of quality education The main concern is the introduction of a tougher version of performance-related pay and what the unions say is an attack on national pay structures. So.......perform better, get paid more/properly. If I ma rubbish at my job I would not expect to get paid more. But hey, I was brought up to work and not expect high wages for being mediocre at a job.
Looks like a Man Utd supporter
[quote][p][bold]SwindonWatcher[/bold] wrote: Why are teachers striking? Members of the NUT are taking industrial action over performance-related pay, pension changes and what it calls, excessive workload and bureaucracy. The union says teachers are concerned about the impact these imposed changes are having on: the morale of the profession the recruitment and retention of teachers the provision of quality education The main concern is the introduction of a tougher version of performance-related pay and what the unions say is an attack on national pay structures. So.......perform better, get paid more/properly. If I ma rubbish at my job I would not expect to get paid more. But hey, I was brought up to work and not expect high wages for being mediocre at a job.[/p][/quote]Looks like a Man Utd supporter redtilldead
  • Score: -7

2:05pm Thu 27 Mar 14

SwindonWatcher says...

redtilldead wrote:
SwindonWatcher wrote:
Why are teachers striking? Members of the NUT are taking industrial action over performance-related pay, pension changes and what it calls, excessive workload and bureaucracy. The union says teachers are concerned about the impact these imposed changes are having on: the morale of the profession the recruitment and retention of teachers the provision of quality education The main concern is the introduction of a tougher version of performance-related pay and what the unions say is an attack on national pay structures. So.......perform better, get paid more/properly. If I ma rubbish at my job I would not expect to get paid more. But hey, I was brought up to work and not expect high wages for being mediocre at a job.
Looks like a Man Utd supporter
Definitely not a red!!!! Jeez
[quote][p][bold]redtilldead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SwindonWatcher[/bold] wrote: Why are teachers striking? Members of the NUT are taking industrial action over performance-related pay, pension changes and what it calls, excessive workload and bureaucracy. The union says teachers are concerned about the impact these imposed changes are having on: the morale of the profession the recruitment and retention of teachers the provision of quality education The main concern is the introduction of a tougher version of performance-related pay and what the unions say is an attack on national pay structures. So.......perform better, get paid more/properly. If I ma rubbish at my job I would not expect to get paid more. But hey, I was brought up to work and not expect high wages for being mediocre at a job.[/p][/quote]Looks like a Man Utd supporter[/p][/quote]Definitely not a red!!!! Jeez SwindonWatcher
  • Score: 0

2:06pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

Artist as I said other nations have overtaken us we have not necessarily gone backwards. I sat my O levels in the mid 70s and my daughter her GCSEs in 2004. The work and level of difficulty in all core subjects was about the same or more difficult for the GCSEs. In fact I would say it was easier to do O level as it was all exam based and all you had to do was cram. It would be interesting to read anything that categorically proves that Olevels/GCSEs have got easier overtime, I suspect there is no empirical evidence to prove they have.
Artist as I said other nations have overtaken us we have not necessarily gone backwards. I sat my O levels in the mid 70s and my daughter her GCSEs in 2004. The work and level of difficulty in all core subjects was about the same or more difficult for the GCSEs. In fact I would say it was easier to do O level as it was all exam based and all you had to do was cram. It would be interesting to read anything that categorically proves that Olevels/GCSEs have got easier overtime, I suspect there is no empirical evidence to prove they have. Spurs Fan
  • Score: -6

2:11pm Thu 27 Mar 14

house on the hill says...

redtilldead wrote:
The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
redtilldead wrote:
The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote: So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.
I'm not a teacher. My son is. What proof of standards falling can you prove. My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job. Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too. Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers. If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!
I refer you to my previous response, where I detailed evidence provided by both personal experience as an employer, and from the OECD. When such evidence is presented many trot out the same tired mantra: "If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars (sic) are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!" I'm not saying it's easy. I've never said that, as very few worthwhile jobs are easy. Odd that it may seem to you, teachers do not have a monopoly on difficult jobs. Many teachers do a fantastic job, many do not, as in any other professions. With the UK languishing in international league tables the status quo cannot continue though. The education system is clearly failing our children and society is clearly struggling to motivate them to succeed.
What is failing our system is mant in our nation do not want to buy in to being educated. Its a cultural issue and agreed it is our society that is failing them.

Many of the countries above us in the league tables have children who are driven by parents who want to and make their children to learn. In China, the one child policy that has been so roundly condemned has been a fuel to drive desire to improve learning. They pay for their children to have more education. Our system rewards lethargy.

As a nation we dont respect teaching as a profession and its reflected in the way they are treated, remunerated. If you want the best you pay for it.
I am not sure that is correct that we dont respect teaching, but I do agree that society is to blame for a lot of the problems in education. The dumbing down in the media, the glorification of celebrity, the lad and laddette culture of drink and drugs being "cool! To many parents are terrible role models as well.

there are many things that are not right, but for me this is more about basic economics. Most in the private sector have had no pay rises, seen their pension schemes closed and put on performance related pay or short term contracts. There is just some feeling that teachers should be above all this and I am not sure why they should be some sort of special case. I am sure some teachers will tell us why!
[quote][p][bold]redtilldead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redtilldead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.[/p][/quote]I'm not a teacher. My son is. What proof of standards falling can you prove. My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job. Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too. Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers. If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it![/p][/quote]I refer you to my previous response, where I detailed evidence provided by both personal experience as an employer, and from the OECD. When such evidence is presented many trot out the same tired mantra: "If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars (sic) are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!" I'm not saying it's easy. I've never said that, as very few worthwhile jobs are easy. Odd that it may seem to you, teachers do not have a monopoly on difficult jobs. Many teachers do a fantastic job, many do not, as in any other professions. With the UK languishing in international league tables the status quo cannot continue though. The education system is clearly failing our children and society is clearly struggling to motivate them to succeed.[/p][/quote]What is failing our system is mant in our nation do not want to buy in to being educated. Its a cultural issue and agreed it is our society that is failing them. Many of the countries above us in the league tables have children who are driven by parents who want to and make their children to learn. In China, the one child policy that has been so roundly condemned has been a fuel to drive desire to improve learning. They pay for their children to have more education. Our system rewards lethargy. As a nation we dont respect teaching as a profession and its reflected in the way they are treated, remunerated. If you want the best you pay for it.[/p][/quote]I am not sure that is correct that we dont respect teaching, but I do agree that society is to blame for a lot of the problems in education. The dumbing down in the media, the glorification of celebrity, the lad and laddette culture of drink and drugs being "cool! To many parents are terrible role models as well. there are many things that are not right, but for me this is more about basic economics. Most in the private sector have had no pay rises, seen their pension schemes closed and put on performance related pay or short term contracts. There is just some feeling that teachers should be above all this and I am not sure why they should be some sort of special case. I am sure some teachers will tell us why! house on the hill
  • Score: 3

2:15pm Thu 27 Mar 14

SwindonWatcher says...

house on the hill wrote:
redtilldead wrote:
The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
redtilldead wrote:
The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote: So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.
I'm not a teacher. My son is. What proof of standards falling can you prove. My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job. Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too. Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers. If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!
I refer you to my previous response, where I detailed evidence provided by both personal experience as an employer, and from the OECD. When such evidence is presented many trot out the same tired mantra: "If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars (sic) are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!" I'm not saying it's easy. I've never said that, as very few worthwhile jobs are easy. Odd that it may seem to you, teachers do not have a monopoly on difficult jobs. Many teachers do a fantastic job, many do not, as in any other professions. With the UK languishing in international league tables the status quo cannot continue though. The education system is clearly failing our children and society is clearly struggling to motivate them to succeed.
What is failing our system is mant in our nation do not want to buy in to being educated. Its a cultural issue and agreed it is our society that is failing them.

Many of the countries above us in the league tables have children who are driven by parents who want to and make their children to learn. In China, the one child policy that has been so roundly condemned has been a fuel to drive desire to improve learning. They pay for their children to have more education. Our system rewards lethargy.

As a nation we dont respect teaching as a profession and its reflected in the way they are treated, remunerated. If you want the best you pay for it.
I am not sure that is correct that we dont respect teaching, but I do agree that society is to blame for a lot of the problems in education. The dumbing down in the media, the glorification of celebrity, the lad and laddette culture of drink and drugs being "cool! To many parents are terrible role models as well.

there are many things that are not right, but for me this is more about basic economics. Most in the private sector have had no pay rises, seen their pension schemes closed and put on performance related pay or short term contracts. There is just some feeling that teachers should be above all this and I am not sure why they should be some sort of special case. I am sure some teachers will tell us why!
Could not have put it better.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redtilldead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redtilldead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: So now it's a fight to ensure "standards remain high"? Funny, I thought it was about pay, pensions and working hours - at least that's what the union have indicated. Regardless, standards have been slipping for the last two decades. Something clearly needs to change.[/p][/quote]I'm not a teacher. My son is. What proof of standards falling can you prove. My son worked harder at school than I ever did and the teaching he received was a far higher standard that that I received in the good old days at Commonweal in the 70's The hours and effort he puts in would frighten most people and in his holidays - he helps kids achieve get better grades by going into school to run classes (unpaid)! Most people who comment about teaching have no idea of what they do and comment based upon lack of evidence, knowledge or experience of the job. Teachers are striking for valid reasons and if it upsets some people tough put yourself in their shoes - you would too. Like many people they are over regulated by government (either shade) and as such are easy pickings for pub philosphers. If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it![/p][/quote]I refer you to my previous response, where I detailed evidence provided by both personal experience as an employer, and from the OECD. When such evidence is presented many trot out the same tired mantra: "If the job is so easy and so full of benefits and you feel the standars (sic) are slipping - get up do the job yourself and prove it!" I'm not saying it's easy. I've never said that, as very few worthwhile jobs are easy. Odd that it may seem to you, teachers do not have a monopoly on difficult jobs. Many teachers do a fantastic job, many do not, as in any other professions. With the UK languishing in international league tables the status quo cannot continue though. The education system is clearly failing our children and society is clearly struggling to motivate them to succeed.[/p][/quote]What is failing our system is mant in our nation do not want to buy in to being educated. Its a cultural issue and agreed it is our society that is failing them. Many of the countries above us in the league tables have children who are driven by parents who want to and make their children to learn. In China, the one child policy that has been so roundly condemned has been a fuel to drive desire to improve learning. They pay for their children to have more education. Our system rewards lethargy. As a nation we dont respect teaching as a profession and its reflected in the way they are treated, remunerated. If you want the best you pay for it.[/p][/quote]I am not sure that is correct that we dont respect teaching, but I do agree that society is to blame for a lot of the problems in education. The dumbing down in the media, the glorification of celebrity, the lad and laddette culture of drink and drugs being "cool! To many parents are terrible role models as well. there are many things that are not right, but for me this is more about basic economics. Most in the private sector have had no pay rises, seen their pension schemes closed and put on performance related pay or short term contracts. There is just some feeling that teachers should be above all this and I am not sure why they should be some sort of special case. I am sure some teachers will tell us why![/p][/quote]Could not have put it better. SwindonWatcher
  • Score: 3

2:42pm Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
redtilldead: you make many intersting points. We as a nation do not value education in the same ways as many other countries, especially those in the far east. We also do not value, as we once did, those that enter into the teaching profession. Teachers now are expected to teach only what is prescribed by government. This was not the case before the mid 1980s. Funnily enough when most people say the rot set in. My own daughter with a first class degree who would make an excellent educator has adamantly said that she would never enter the profession because no one values it anymore. It is easier and more rewarding both financially and emotionally to work in business.
Your first point is absolute rubbish. If as a nation we didn't care about education this would be a non-story.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: redtilldead: you make many intersting points. We as a nation do not value education in the same ways as many other countries, especially those in the far east. We also do not value, as we once did, those that enter into the teaching profession. Teachers now are expected to teach only what is prescribed by government. This was not the case before the mid 1980s. Funnily enough when most people say the rot set in. My own daughter with a first class degree who would make an excellent educator has adamantly said that she would never enter the profession because no one values it anymore. It is easier and more rewarding both financially and emotionally to work in business.[/p][/quote]Your first point is absolute rubbish. If as a nation we didn't care about education this would be a non-story. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 0

2:43pm Thu 27 Mar 14

swindondad says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Artist as I said other nations have overtaken us we have not necessarily gone backwards. I sat my O levels in the mid 70s and my daughter her GCSEs in 2004. The work and level of difficulty in all core subjects was about the same or more difficult for the GCSEs. In fact I would say it was easier to do O level as it was all exam based and all you had to do was cram. It would be interesting to read anything that categorically proves that Olevels/GCSEs have got easier overtime, I suspect there is no empirical evidence to prove they have.
I would disagree with this assessment.

In general with O levels you studied for 2 years and took one or two exams in each subject at the end of it to see how much of the information you had been given you had understood / retained.

GCSE's in general allow the marking of course work (which staff, parents, tutors can help you with / check / correct) and exams are taken in modals so that you know what sections you will be tested on in advance (normally what you have just learned) but do not worry if you get a poor grade you can usually sit it again.

So IMHO the O level was a much tougher test.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Artist as I said other nations have overtaken us we have not necessarily gone backwards. I sat my O levels in the mid 70s and my daughter her GCSEs in 2004. The work and level of difficulty in all core subjects was about the same or more difficult for the GCSEs. In fact I would say it was easier to do O level as it was all exam based and all you had to do was cram. It would be interesting to read anything that categorically proves that Olevels/GCSEs have got easier overtime, I suspect there is no empirical evidence to prove they have.[/p][/quote]I would disagree with this assessment. In general with O levels you studied for 2 years and took one or two exams in each subject at the end of it to see how much of the information you had been given you had understood / retained. GCSE's in general allow the marking of course work (which staff, parents, tutors can help you with / check / correct) and exams are taken in modals so that you know what sections you will be tested on in advance (normally what you have just learned) but do not worry if you get a poor grade you can usually sit it again. So IMHO the O level was a much tougher test. swindondad
  • Score: 7

2:47pm Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Artist - your evidence is at best anecdotal and is more of a concern relating to graduate education? There have been plenty of studies which say that the UK is falling behind other developed nations in the educational hierarchy.(this only proves that other nations are overtaking us) You could however say that this is due to government interference. In the days when a UK education was amongst the best in the world there was little or no government intervention and no such thing as a nationally prescribed curriculum!

I find it very concerning that many posters on this site do not think that workers should be able to strike in the 21st century. Workers rights have been hard won over the last 150 years and as long as democratic process is followed and no laws are broken I would support any worker to take strike action should they need to. It would appear that we live in a society where everyone thinks of their own needs first, I lose money when my kids are home from school so teachers should not be able to strike. I also wonder if many of the posters on this site who denigrate teachers and call them things like lazy gits, have the educational abilities to enter into the profession themselves?
So the (substantial) evidence reported by the OECD is anecdotal?

My particular experience is with graduate education, yes. We do not generally hire anyone with a lower standard of education. But those that come from graduate education have also come from other education establishments.

You *could* say that it is due to government interference, but that most definitely would be anecdotal at best!
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Artist - your evidence is at best anecdotal and is more of a concern relating to graduate education? There have been plenty of studies which say that the UK is falling behind other developed nations in the educational hierarchy.(this only proves that other nations are overtaking us) You could however say that this is due to government interference. In the days when a UK education was amongst the best in the world there was little or no government intervention and no such thing as a nationally prescribed curriculum! I find it very concerning that many posters on this site do not think that workers should be able to strike in the 21st century. Workers rights have been hard won over the last 150 years and as long as democratic process is followed and no laws are broken I would support any worker to take strike action should they need to. It would appear that we live in a society where everyone thinks of their own needs first, I lose money when my kids are home from school so teachers should not be able to strike. I also wonder if many of the posters on this site who denigrate teachers and call them things like lazy gits, have the educational abilities to enter into the profession themselves?[/p][/quote]So the (substantial) evidence reported by the OECD is anecdotal? My particular experience is with graduate education, yes. We do not generally hire anyone with a lower standard of education. But those that come from graduate education have also come from other education establishments. You *could* say that it is due to government interference, but that most definitely would be anecdotal at best! The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 1

2:53pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

Artist, did you read my comment before you commented? I said we as a country do not value education as much as other nations, especially those in the far east. I did not say we do not value education at all. In Japan in is common for most parents to pay for extra education for their children over and above their basic schooling, that does not happen to the same extent here.
swindondad you are of course entitled to your opinion in the relative merits of the difficulty of O levels v GCSEs. You could also if you remember resit Ol evels back in the day. as I said I would be most interested if anyone can give me any empirical data that proves examinations at 16 have got easier over time. I suspect though that none exists because it is not true.
Artist, did you read my comment before you commented? I said we as a country do not value education as much as other nations, especially those in the far east. I did not say we do not value education at all. In Japan in is common for most parents to pay for extra education for their children over and above their basic schooling, that does not happen to the same extent here. swindondad you are of course entitled to your opinion in the relative merits of the difficulty of O levels v GCSEs. You could also if you remember resit Ol evels back in the day. as I said I would be most interested if anyone can give me any empirical data that proves examinations at 16 have got easier over time. I suspect though that none exists because it is not true. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 1

3:10pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

The Artist, the OECD evidence if it proves anything is that other countries now do better than we do. It does not prove factually standards in UK in education have gone down. I would love to read something that proves categorically that standards have gone down. Your experience relating to work is anecdotal as I said. I believe you said above that standards have fallen over the last thirty years. What is an undeniable fact is this is when the national curriculum was introduced under the Conservative government of the day.
The Artist, the OECD evidence if it proves anything is that other countries now do better than we do. It does not prove factually standards in UK in education have gone down. I would love to read something that proves categorically that standards have gone down. Your experience relating to work is anecdotal as I said. I believe you said above that standards have fallen over the last thirty years. What is an undeniable fact is this is when the national curriculum was introduced under the Conservative government of the day. Spurs Fan
  • Score: -3

3:35pm Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Artist, did you read my comment before you commented? I said we as a country do not value education as much as other nations, especially those in the far east. I did not say we do not value education at all. In Japan in is common for most parents to pay for extra education for their children over and above their basic schooling, that does not happen to the same extent here.
swindondad you are of course entitled to your opinion in the relative merits of the difficulty of O levels v GCSEs. You could also if you remember resit Ol evels back in the day. as I said I would be most interested if anyone can give me any empirical data that proves examinations at 16 have got easier over time. I suspect though that none exists because it is not true.
Funnily enough, in Japan the educational material (curriculum) is just as if not more prescribed by the government than it is here.

They also have teachers working on Saturdays and teaching for 240 days of the year.

Teachers in Japan also have a much more rigorous selection process, only the best 30% or so get through.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Artist, did you read my comment before you commented? I said we as a country do not value education as much as other nations, especially those in the far east. I did not say we do not value education at all. In Japan in is common for most parents to pay for extra education for their children over and above their basic schooling, that does not happen to the same extent here. swindondad you are of course entitled to your opinion in the relative merits of the difficulty of O levels v GCSEs. You could also if you remember resit Ol evels back in the day. as I said I would be most interested if anyone can give me any empirical data that proves examinations at 16 have got easier over time. I suspect though that none exists because it is not true.[/p][/quote]Funnily enough, in Japan the educational material (curriculum) is just as if not more prescribed by the government than it is here. They also have teachers working on Saturdays and teaching for 240 days of the year. Teachers in Japan also have a much more rigorous selection process, only the best 30% or so get through. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 4

3:39pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

Artist - your points about Japan would seem to me to say that they as a nation value education more than we do. Which was my point in the first place.
Artist - your points about Japan would seem to me to say that they as a nation value education more than we do. Which was my point in the first place. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 2

3:42pm Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Artist - your points about Japan would seem to me to say that they as a nation value education more than we do. Which was my point in the first place.
Well, teachers certainly value the profession more anyway.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Artist - your points about Japan would seem to me to say that they as a nation value education more than we do. Which was my point in the first place.[/p][/quote]Well, teachers certainly value the profession more anyway. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: -2

3:49pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

Artist - and parents if they are prepared to pay for more education over and above what is already a better system than we have?
Artist - and parents if they are prepared to pay for more education over and above what is already a better system than we have? Spurs Fan
  • Score: 1

3:57pm Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Artist - and parents if they are prepared to pay for more education over and above what is already a better system than we have?
I've found little evidence to suggest that is actually the case. Could you direct me to some?
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Artist - and parents if they are prepared to pay for more education over and above what is already a better system than we have?[/p][/quote]I've found little evidence to suggest that is actually the case. Could you direct me to some? The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 0

4:12pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

The Artist, if you google Juku or cram schools in Japan you will see that it is a flourishing industry, It is said that upwards of 90% of Japanese children attend private cram schools at some stage of their academic careers. There are some statistics here: http://www.education
-in-japan.info/sub1.
html#sub102: As I said it would appear that that is at least one nation that values an education more than we do.
The Artist, if you google Juku or cram schools in Japan you will see that it is a flourishing industry, It is said that upwards of 90% of Japanese children attend private cram schools at some stage of their academic careers. There are some statistics here: http://www.education -in-japan.info/sub1. html#sub102: As I said it would appear that that is at least one nation that values an education more than we do. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 3

4:23pm Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
The Artist, if you google Juku or cram schools in Japan you will see that it is a flourishing industry, It is said that upwards of 90% of Japanese children attend private cram schools at some stage of their academic careers. There are some statistics here: http://www.education

-in-japan.info/sub1.

html#sub102: As I said it would appear that that is at least one nation that values an education more than we do.
Interesting...

Also interesting that Japan's top teaching unions do not support them, the government refuses to recognise their existence, and also interesting that these schools operate for profit - therefore they must guarantee results in order to survive. A lesson perhaps?
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The Artist, if you google Juku or cram schools in Japan you will see that it is a flourishing industry, It is said that upwards of 90% of Japanese children attend private cram schools at some stage of their academic careers. There are some statistics here: http://www.education -in-japan.info/sub1. html#sub102: As I said it would appear that that is at least one nation that values an education more than we do.[/p][/quote]Interesting... Also interesting that Japan's top teaching unions do not support them, the government refuses to recognise their existence, and also interesting that these schools operate for profit - therefore they must guarantee results in order to survive. A lesson perhaps? The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 0

4:37pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

Perhaps but that's another debate!
Interesting talking to you this afternoon.
Perhaps but that's another debate! Interesting talking to you this afternoon. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 1

4:42pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Hmmmf says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Artist as I said other nations have overtaken us we have not necessarily gone backwards.

The Artist, the OECD evidence if it proves anything is that other countries now do better than we do. It does not prove factually standards in UK in education have gone down.

School leavers in England have lower levels of basic skills than their grandparents. That's going backwards. That's education standards going down.

http://goo.gl/uksGS9
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Artist as I said other nations have overtaken us we have not necessarily gone backwards. The Artist, the OECD evidence if it proves anything is that other countries now do better than we do. It does not prove factually standards in UK in education have gone down. [/quote] School leavers in England have lower levels of basic skills than their grandparents. That's going backwards. That's education standards going down. http://goo.gl/uksGS9 Hmmmf
  • Score: 4

4:48pm Thu 27 Mar 14

madreeves says...

Reading the comments regarding Asian teaching compared to ours. Might be worth checking out the high suicide rates of somewhere like Japan borne from lack of employment. Something like a third of all graduates can't find a job so, to get into the workplace, the students simply have to excel in the classroom from an early age to stand any chance of getting on in the world. A country with limited job prospects that isn't so generous with its benefits handouts will always produce students of a high calibre, making the teaching profession there a lot easier.
Reading the comments regarding Asian teaching compared to ours. Might be worth checking out the high suicide rates of somewhere like Japan borne from lack of employment. Something like a third of all graduates can't find a job so, to get into the workplace, the students simply have to excel in the classroom from an early age to stand any chance of getting on in the world. A country with limited job prospects that isn't so generous with its benefits handouts will always produce students of a high calibre, making the teaching profession there a lot easier. madreeves
  • Score: 2

4:50pm Thu 27 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

madreeves wrote:
Reading the comments regarding Asian teaching compared to ours. Might be worth checking out the high suicide rates of somewhere like Japan borne from lack of employment. Something like a third of all graduates can't find a job so, to get into the workplace, the students simply have to excel in the classroom from an early age to stand any chance of getting on in the world. A country with limited job prospects that isn't so generous with its benefits handouts will always produce students of a high calibre, making the teaching profession there a lot easier.
So to increase educational attainment in this country we should reduce benefits handouts and increase competition in the jobs market? Makes a certain amount of sense....
[quote][p][bold]madreeves[/bold] wrote: Reading the comments regarding Asian teaching compared to ours. Might be worth checking out the high suicide rates of somewhere like Japan borne from lack of employment. Something like a third of all graduates can't find a job so, to get into the workplace, the students simply have to excel in the classroom from an early age to stand any chance of getting on in the world. A country with limited job prospects that isn't so generous with its benefits handouts will always produce students of a high calibre, making the teaching profession there a lot easier.[/p][/quote]So to increase educational attainment in this country we should reduce benefits handouts and increase competition in the jobs market? Makes a certain amount of sense.... The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 2

4:53pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

Hmmmf- That report says that school leavers have lower basic skills than their parents/grand parents. It does not say or prove that exams are easier or more difficult than they once were. How do we know what level the parents were educated to? You could test 100 sixteen year old GCSE students and 100 older people educated to degree level. People continue to learn throughout their lifetimes. I would appreciate some serious academic study to read. You would need to point out data extrapolated from current and past examinations.
Hmmmf- That report says that school leavers have lower basic skills than their parents/grand parents. It does not say or prove that exams are easier or more difficult than they once were. How do we know what level the parents were educated to? You could test 100 sixteen year old GCSE students and 100 older people educated to degree level. People continue to learn throughout their lifetimes. I would appreciate some serious academic study to read. You would need to point out data extrapolated from current and past examinations. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 1

5:23pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Hmmmf says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Hmmmf- That report says that school leavers have lower basic skills than their parents/grand parents. It does not say or prove that exams are easier or more difficult than they once were

Exams have nothing to do with it. When school-leavers leave school with lower basic skills than previous generations the obvious conclusion is the one drawn by the OECD and the press reporting on it. It's strange that you remain in denial of facts reported by an organisation held in such regard by so many developed nations. Burying your head in the sand and waiting until a 'serious academic study' appears which agrees with your views won't change the fact school-leavers' literacy and numeracy is poorer now than it has been in many years.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Hmmmf- That report says that school leavers have lower basic skills than their parents/grand parents. It does not say or prove that exams are easier or more difficult than they once were[/quote] Exams have nothing to do with it. When school-leavers leave school with lower basic skills than previous generations the obvious conclusion is the one drawn by the OECD and the press reporting on it. It's strange that you remain in denial of facts reported by an organisation held in such regard by so many developed nations. Burying your head in the sand and waiting until a 'serious academic study' appears which agrees with your views won't change the fact school-leavers' literacy and numeracy is poorer now than it has been in many years. Hmmmf
  • Score: 1

6:03pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

Hmmmf that report does not say that school leavers leave school now with lower skills than in previous years. It says that 16 year olds in this country have lower skills than their parents or grand parents. Who knows what skills the grandparents or parents left school with? We cannot deny that in world league table we are now in a lowly position. It is possible that education is now not as good as it was, but it is equally possible that other nations education has improved and surpassed us. Please point out a study that says educationally children at sixteen are less educated than they were 20, 30 or 40 years ago.
Hmmmf that report does not say that school leavers leave school now with lower skills than in previous years. It says that 16 year olds in this country have lower skills than their parents or grand parents. Who knows what skills the grandparents or parents left school with? We cannot deny that in world league table we are now in a lowly position. It is possible that education is now not as good as it was, but it is equally possible that other nations education has improved and surpassed us. Please point out a study that says educationally children at sixteen are less educated than they were 20, 30 or 40 years ago. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 0

6:16pm Thu 27 Mar 14

Spurs Fan says...

http://www.theguardi
an.com/commentisfree
/2010/aug/21/ben-gol
dacre-bad-science-ex
ams

This article says that there is no research that proves exams have got easier over time. Likewise it says there is no way to see if they have got harder. Research into IQs does prove that children are getting more intelligent over time. However that alone does not say that they have better or worse basic skills. As I have said all afternoon I am willing to be convinced that basic levels of core skills are in decline but there is no research to prove this.
http://www.theguardi an.com/commentisfree /2010/aug/21/ben-gol dacre-bad-science-ex ams This article says that there is no research that proves exams have got easier over time. Likewise it says there is no way to see if they have got harder. Research into IQs does prove that children are getting more intelligent over time. However that alone does not say that they have better or worse basic skills. As I have said all afternoon I am willing to be convinced that basic levels of core skills are in decline but there is no research to prove this. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 0

9:40pm Thu 27 Mar 14

King Doink says...

Usual c*** comments again I see, blah blah blah teachers are lazy. A few of these posters have been getting there ideas from reading the Sun newspaper.
Usual c*** comments again I see, blah blah blah teachers are lazy. A few of these posters have been getting there ideas from reading the Sun newspaper. King Doink
  • Score: -5

9:49pm Thu 27 Mar 14

King Doink says...

rebecca97 wrote:
U teachers chose ur own career & knew the pay/pension etc when you took the job!!! It's our children who are losing out! Iv got a child in yr11 & about to take important exams so can't afford time off! I, for one would love 13+ wks holiday a yr plus your ttd straight after half terms! You so say work long hrs?? I'm a domicillary nurse & can work 15hrs a day, no pension & zero hr contract... Am I on strike? No because I chose my career!!
Get back to work and do what you're paid to do instead of making the kids & parents suffer because of your career choice!!
Well you must be the fool!! Choosing a career that has no pension! You should find a nursing job that has a contract of hours.
[quote][p][bold]rebecca97[/bold] wrote: U teachers chose ur own career & knew the pay/pension etc when you took the job!!! It's our children who are losing out! Iv got a child in yr11 & about to take important exams so can't afford time off! I, for one would love 13+ wks holiday a yr plus your ttd straight after half terms! You so say work long hrs?? I'm a domicillary nurse & can work 15hrs a day, no pension & zero hr contract... Am I on strike? No because I chose my career!! Get back to work and do what you're paid to do instead of making the kids & parents suffer because of your career choice!![/p][/quote]Well you must be the fool!! Choosing a career that has no pension! You should find a nursing job that has a contract of hours. King Doink
  • Score: -2

10:23pm Thu 27 Mar 14

timt1964 says...

ah diddums,poor teachers sulking again.funny how they are so hard done by but manage to waste a day in bristol.if its all about the childrens education then why not grow up yourselves and do what youre paid to do,TEACH! its not a vocation anymore thats why there are so many whingers in the profession and they have become a laughing stock.thats my opinion not the sun newspapers.
ah diddums,poor teachers sulking again.funny how they are so hard done by but manage to waste a day in bristol.if its all about the childrens education then why not grow up yourselves and do what youre paid to do,TEACH! its not a vocation anymore thats why there are so many whingers in the profession and they have become a laughing stock.thats my opinion not the sun newspapers. timt1964
  • Score: 5

10:43am Fri 28 Mar 14

trolley dolley says...

timt1964

Most people would agree with your comments.

Teachers are no longer professionals they now behave like militant miners, it is all about MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.

The time has come to ask them to either get on with what they are paid to do or go and get another job if they are capable of doing so.
timt1964 Most people would agree with your comments. Teachers are no longer professionals they now behave like militant miners, it is all about MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. The time has come to ask them to either get on with what they are paid to do or go and get another job if they are capable of doing so. trolley dolley
  • Score: 6

12:51pm Fri 28 Mar 14

A.Baron-Cohen says...

trolley dolley wrote:
timt1964

Most people would agree with your comments.

Teachers are no longer professionals they now behave like militant miners, it is all about MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.

The time has come to ask them to either get on with what they are paid to do or go and get another job if they are capable of doing so.
There is no need for teachers, any one able to read can teach now.
[quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: timt1964 Most people would agree with your comments. Teachers are no longer professionals they now behave like militant miners, it is all about MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. The time has come to ask them to either get on with what they are paid to do or go and get another job if they are capable of doing so.[/p][/quote]There is no need for teachers, any one able to read can teach now. A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 0

4:50pm Fri 28 Mar 14

asimo says...

Hi peeps. Nice to read the the teachers are defending their rights. . . My little sister had the day off and asked me why. I told her some very rich men wanted to steal some money from her teachers and she replied " Why aren't the police arresting these horrid men ". I explained that the same men are also stealing from the police, the NHS, the sick, elderly and, the most vunerable members of our society. She asked " why aren't the judges and barristers not locking these men up ". I replied " because they are on strike too as they disagree with the rich men ". Looking puzzled she then said " well, if all the people in power are robbing all the people with a little power why don't they fight for what is theirs". I looked down to her and said
" the people who are afraid to fight normally join the powerful men through fear " which makes the fight even harder for the people who have to fight "
Astonishingly she replied " I want to be a teacher when I grow up and fight the bastards who are doing this to my teacher " That will be a 100 lines I thought to myself ! As for all the crap I have read on this page attacking the teachers I know which category you fall into . . . Cowards, class traitors and supporters of this government's attacks on the very things we should all be supporting. . . Idriots ! the lot of ya ! Teachers keep fighting and good luck !
Hi peeps. Nice to read the the teachers are defending their rights. . . My little sister had the day off and asked me why. I told her some very rich men wanted to steal some money from her teachers and she replied " Why aren't the police arresting these horrid men ". I explained that the same men are also stealing from the police, the NHS, the sick, elderly and, the most vunerable members of our society. She asked " why aren't the judges and barristers not locking these men up ". I replied " because they are on strike too as they disagree with the rich men ". Looking puzzled she then said " well, if all the people in power are robbing all the people with a little power why don't they fight for what is theirs". I looked down to her and said " the people who are afraid to fight normally join the powerful men through fear " which makes the fight even harder for the people who have to fight " Astonishingly she replied " I want to be a teacher when I grow up and fight the bastards who are doing this to my teacher " That will be a 100 lines I thought to myself ! As for all the crap I have read on this page attacking the teachers I know which category you fall into . . . Cowards, class traitors and supporters of this government's attacks on the very things we should all be supporting. . . Idriots ! the lot of ya ! Teachers keep fighting and good luck ! asimo
  • Score: -5

5:04pm Fri 28 Mar 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

asimo wrote:
Hi peeps. Nice to read the the teachers are defending their rights. . . My little sister had the day off and asked me why. I told her some very rich men wanted to steal some money from her teachers and she replied " Why aren't the police arresting these horrid men ". I explained that the same men are also stealing from the police, the NHS, the sick, elderly and, the most vunerable members of our society. She asked " why aren't the judges and barristers not locking these men up ". I replied " because they are on strike too as they disagree with the rich men ". Looking puzzled she then said " well, if all the people in power are robbing all the people with a little power why don't they fight for what is theirs". I looked down to her and said
" the people who are afraid to fight normally join the powerful men through fear " which makes the fight even harder for the people who have to fight "
Astonishingly she replied " I want to be a teacher when I grow up and fight the bastards who are doing this to my teacher " That will be a 100 lines I thought to myself ! As for all the crap I have read on this page attacking the teachers I know which category you fall into . . . Cowards, class traitors and supporters of this government's attacks on the very things we should all be supporting. . . Idriots ! the lot of ya ! Teachers keep fighting and good luck !
Nice story. Shame it's not true though, the government aren't "stealing" anything from anyone (other than than ludicrous amounts of tax being taken from all tax payers which they then waste).
[quote][p][bold]asimo[/bold] wrote: Hi peeps. Nice to read the the teachers are defending their rights. . . My little sister had the day off and asked me why. I told her some very rich men wanted to steal some money from her teachers and she replied " Why aren't the police arresting these horrid men ". I explained that the same men are also stealing from the police, the NHS, the sick, elderly and, the most vunerable members of our society. She asked " why aren't the judges and barristers not locking these men up ". I replied " because they are on strike too as they disagree with the rich men ". Looking puzzled she then said " well, if all the people in power are robbing all the people with a little power why don't they fight for what is theirs". I looked down to her and said " the people who are afraid to fight normally join the powerful men through fear " which makes the fight even harder for the people who have to fight " Astonishingly she replied " I want to be a teacher when I grow up and fight the bastards who are doing this to my teacher " That will be a 100 lines I thought to myself ! As for all the crap I have read on this page attacking the teachers I know which category you fall into . . . Cowards, class traitors and supporters of this government's attacks on the very things we should all be supporting. . . Idriots ! the lot of ya ! Teachers keep fighting and good luck ![/p][/quote]Nice story. Shame it's not true though, the government aren't "stealing" anything from anyone (other than than ludicrous amounts of tax being taken from all tax payers which they then waste). The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 3

11:57am Mon 31 Mar 14

nigelej says...

asimo wrote:
Hi peeps. Nice to read the the teachers are defending their rights. . . My little sister had the day off and asked me why. I told her some very rich men wanted to steal some money from her teachers and she replied " Why aren't the police arresting these horrid men ". I explained that the same men are also stealing from the police, the NHS, the sick, elderly and, the most vunerable members of our society. She asked " why aren't the judges and barristers not locking these men up ". I replied " because they are on strike too as they disagree with the rich men ". Looking puzzled she then said " well, if all the people in power are robbing all the people with a little power why don't they fight for what is theirs". I looked down to her and said
" the people who are afraid to fight normally join the powerful men through fear " which makes the fight even harder for the people who have to fight "
Astonishingly she replied " I want to be a teacher when I grow up and fight the bastards who are doing this to my teacher " That will be a 100 lines I thought to myself ! As for all the crap I have read on this page attacking the teachers I know which category you fall into . . . Cowards, class traitors and supporters of this government's attacks on the very things we should all be supporting. . . Idriots ! the lot of ya ! Teachers keep fighting and good luck !
Absouloutly fantastic post and so true
[quote][p][bold]asimo[/bold] wrote: Hi peeps. Nice to read the the teachers are defending their rights. . . My little sister had the day off and asked me why. I told her some very rich men wanted to steal some money from her teachers and she replied " Why aren't the police arresting these horrid men ". I explained that the same men are also stealing from the police, the NHS, the sick, elderly and, the most vunerable members of our society. She asked " why aren't the judges and barristers not locking these men up ". I replied " because they are on strike too as they disagree with the rich men ". Looking puzzled she then said " well, if all the people in power are robbing all the people with a little power why don't they fight for what is theirs". I looked down to her and said " the people who are afraid to fight normally join the powerful men through fear " which makes the fight even harder for the people who have to fight " Astonishingly she replied " I want to be a teacher when I grow up and fight the bastards who are doing this to my teacher " That will be a 100 lines I thought to myself ! As for all the crap I have read on this page attacking the teachers I know which category you fall into . . . Cowards, class traitors and supporters of this government's attacks on the very things we should all be supporting. . . Idriots ! the lot of ya ! Teachers keep fighting and good luck ![/p][/quote]Absouloutly fantastic post and so true nigelej
  • Score: -1

3:08pm Mon 31 Mar 14

Hammer5 says...

Fair play to the teachers for fighting not to have there rights eroded
The rest of this cou8ntry can learn a valuable lesson!!!!
As for parents who cant arrange childcare because of the strike it will make the roads a much safer place lol
Fair play to the teachers for fighting not to have there rights eroded The rest of this cou8ntry can learn a valuable lesson!!!! As for parents who cant arrange childcare because of the strike it will make the roads a much safer place lol Hammer5
  • Score: -1

3:10pm Mon 31 Mar 14

Hammer5 says...

SwindonWatcher wrote:
I wish I could have as much holiday as these behind the times people!!! About time they realised it is 2014!!!

And don't get me started on the "Let's have a teacher training day" the day after school holidays end!!!

Get back to work you lazy gits!! Educate the kids.

You chose to be a teacher, if you can't hack it...get out!!
swindonwatcher if you fought more for your own rights and had a little more back bone maybe you would have as many rights as teachers
[quote][p][bold]SwindonWatcher[/bold] wrote: I wish I could have as much holiday as these behind the times people!!! About time they realised it is 2014!!! And don't get me started on the "Let's have a teacher training day" the day after school holidays end!!! Get back to work you lazy gits!! Educate the kids. You chose to be a teacher, if you can't hack it...get out!![/p][/quote]swindonwatcher if you fought more for your own rights and had a little more back bone maybe you would have as many rights as teachers Hammer5
  • Score: -1

3:13pm Mon 31 Mar 14

Hammer5 says...

SwindonWatcher wrote:
It is a career choice and no, most do not run classes in the holidays.

Whilst it is commendable your son does all this it again is his choice so get off your soapbox and realise the effect it is having on parents who lose money when their kids are off school due to antiquated striking!!!

Now, let's move along to the 21st century and stop strikes FFS!!!
Teachers join the profession with lots of holidays and good pay so why have them taken away don't be like swindonwatcher because hes got no back bone and couldn't say to his employer id like a pay rise because he might get scared about his job lol
swindonwatcher you are the reason for low pay no rights you carru on with your minimum wage job lol
[quote][p][bold]SwindonWatcher[/bold] wrote: It is a career choice and no, most do not run classes in the holidays. Whilst it is commendable your son does all this it again is his choice so get off your soapbox and realise the effect it is having on parents who lose money when their kids are off school due to antiquated striking!!! Now, let's move along to the 21st century and stop strikes FFS!!![/p][/quote]Teachers join the profession with lots of holidays and good pay so why have them taken away don't be like swindonwatcher because hes got no back bone and couldn't say to his employer id like a pay rise because he might get scared about his job lol swindonwatcher you are the reason for low pay no rights you carru on with your minimum wage job lol Hammer5
  • Score: -1

3:15pm Mon 31 Mar 14

Hammer5 says...

redtilldead wrote:
SwindonWatcher wrote:
Why are teachers striking? Members of the NUT are taking industrial action over performance-related pay, pension changes and what it calls, excessive workload and bureaucracy. The union says teachers are concerned about the impact these imposed changes are having on: the morale of the profession the recruitment and retention of teachers the provision of quality education The main concern is the introduction of a tougher version of performance-related pay and what the unions say is an attack on national pay structures. So.......perform better, get paid more/properly. If I ma rubbish at my job I would not expect to get paid more. But hey, I was brought up to work and not expect high wages for being mediocre at a job.
Looks like a Man Utd supporter
swindonwatcher I bet your wife tells you what a boring bloke you are ooops shes left you lol
[quote][p][bold]redtilldead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SwindonWatcher[/bold] wrote: Why are teachers striking? Members of the NUT are taking industrial action over performance-related pay, pension changes and what it calls, excessive workload and bureaucracy. The union says teachers are concerned about the impact these imposed changes are having on: the morale of the profession the recruitment and retention of teachers the provision of quality education The main concern is the introduction of a tougher version of performance-related pay and what the unions say is an attack on national pay structures. So.......perform better, get paid more/properly. If I ma rubbish at my job I would not expect to get paid more. But hey, I was brought up to work and not expect high wages for being mediocre at a job.[/p][/quote]Looks like a Man Utd supporter[/p][/quote]swindonwatcher I bet your wife tells you what a boring bloke you are ooops shes left you lol Hammer5
  • Score: -1

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree