Birds Marsh campaigners dismayed

This Is Wiltshire: Some of the Friends of Birds Marsh campaigners, who have been fighting to protect a wood north of the application site Some of the Friends of Birds Marsh campaigners, who have been fighting to protect a wood north of the application site

A controversial development of 750 houses on a site in Northern Chippenham, mainly of undeveloped green fields, was approved in principle at a Wiltshire Council strategic planning meeting yesterday.

Friends of Birds Marsh, a campaign group wanting to protect the woodland immediately north of the application site, spoke in protest at the meeting in County Hall, Trowbridge.

Spokesman Martin Naylor told the meeting in County Hall, Trowbridge, the application conflicted with preserving a valued landscape.

He said: “This will be a step along the way to change a market town by the river into a large dormitory town. When aspiring to a low carbon economy, how is this sustainable?”

Originally plans included management of the wood by Wiltshire Wildlife Trust, but a promise of new woodland facilities was removed after Birds Marsh was granted village green status, which developers say prevents any management by law.

Nick Watts, councillor for Chippenham Hardenhuish, said yesterday: “I have been appalled at the Friends of Birds Marsh's smugness in their victory. They have lost the plot.”

One of the conditions of approval is that the freehold of Birds Marsh is transferred to Wiltshire Council to secure its future maintenance.

But Coun Watts voted against approval, saying the development was too large and he would like to see a maximum of 650 houses.

He said: “There is very little in this scheme to please the residents I represent.

"There will be existing residents walled in by three-storey housing, and Birds Marsh View will have to be renamed because the view will be lost.”

The outline application, submitted in February 2012, generated 105 letters of objection and three letters of support.

Plans for the 48.2ha development next to Hill Corner Road aim to bring 750 properties, up to 12,710 sqm of employment land, a new primary school, public open space and a local centre which may include a shop, doctor’s/dental surgery and community facility.

The scheme will also be served by a new main road link running between the A350 Malmesbury Road and the B4069 Maud’s Heath Causeway.

Coun Watts said: “I believe in reinvigorating our town centre and this scheme is disinterested in that.”

He added there were already 62 spare places at nearby St Paul’s Primary School but insufficent secondary school places.

Peter Stacey, director of Turley Associates, the developer’s agent, said it would be an opportunity for economic growth and would reduce lorries going through the town centre.

The land is owned by the North Chippenham Consortium, made up of Barratt Developments, Persimmon Homes and Heron Land.

At least 2,625 new houses have to be built in Chippenham over the next 12 years, according to the modified Wiltshire Core Strategy.

This site was included in the draft as a strategically important site to build on, but since the document was inspected, all such suggested sites have been removed and will be chosen again from scratch.

Tony Peacock, who campaigned against a development at Showell, proposed the decision should be deferred until after consultation on where extra housing should be delivered, which only began on Monday.

Mr Peacock said: “If you pass this today, you are pre-allocating about a third of the necessary houses.”

But Wiltshire Council case officer Simon Smith said: “It is emphatically not premature to decide it as it stands.”

Fred Westmoreland, councillor for Amesbury West, who voted for approval, said: “This has been going on since 1987. It is going to happen. Let’s do it now.”

It was passed by nine votes for and two against.

Comments (19)

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12:21pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Frederick116 says...

Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired
Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired Frederick116
  • Score: -3

1:10pm Thu 17 Apr 14

WiltsWalker says...

Chippenham doesn't need to expand as it is already big enough. I want to know who sold the land to these developers? Obviously Wiltshire Council have a vested interest (financial) in this scheme. Think of all those extra council tax payers in these new homes. The Birds Marsh area is a lovely green part of the town that will be now lost to development. How much more development does the town need? Certainly not more houses, more shops and employment would be better. Not impressed. Jane Scott should be ashamed.
Chippenham doesn't need to expand as it is already big enough. I want to know who sold the land to these developers? Obviously Wiltshire Council have a vested interest (financial) in this scheme. Think of all those extra council tax payers in these new homes. The Birds Marsh area is a lovely green part of the town that will be now lost to development. How much more development does the town need? Certainly not more houses, more shops and employment would be better. Not impressed. Jane Scott should be ashamed. WiltsWalker
  • Score: 10

1:11pm Thu 17 Apr 14

allthedecentnameshavegone says...

Frederick116 wrote:
Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired
Well said!. Agree totally.
[quote][p][bold]Frederick116[/bold] wrote: Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired[/p][/quote]Well said!. Agree totally. allthedecentnameshavegone
  • Score: -3

1:34pm Thu 17 Apr 14

lordbuckethead says...

Frederick116 wrote:
Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired
You're actually relishing some beautiful woods being bulldozed to allow the creation of another housing estate?

I think either you are a bit strange or I read that as

'I live in a crappy part of Redlands/Lowden/Pews
ham (delete as applicable) and I don't have anywhere nice to walk the dog, so I begrudge you having anywhere. In a word - jealousy?

btw 1 - I don't live anywhere near Bird's Marsh Wood

btw 2 - 'there dogs' (dohh!) 'their village' (correct) - like I said .... strange!
[quote][p][bold]Frederick116[/bold] wrote: Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired[/p][/quote]You're actually relishing some beautiful woods being bulldozed to allow the creation of another housing estate? I think either you are a bit strange or I read that as 'I live in a crappy part of Redlands/Lowden/Pews ham (delete as applicable) and I don't have anywhere nice to walk the dog, so I begrudge you having anywhere. In a word - jealousy? btw 1 - I don't live anywhere near Bird's Marsh Wood btw 2 - 'there dogs' (dohh!) 'their village' (correct) - like I said .... strange! lordbuckethead
  • Score: 2

1:58pm Thu 17 Apr 14

shed says...

WCC have received 25 million quid from the govt over the last 4 years as part of a housing bonus scheme brought in by the conlibs.

So expect plenty more houses to be built whether you like it or no, they want to build another 5000. across Wiltshire
It is becoming increasingly obvious that WCC is either corrupt or incompetent.
WCC have received 25 million quid from the govt over the last 4 years as part of a housing bonus scheme brought in by the conlibs. So expect plenty more houses to be built whether you like it or no, they want to build another 5000. across Wiltshire It is becoming increasingly obvious that WCC is either corrupt or incompetent. shed
  • Score: 14

2:26pm Thu 17 Apr 14

WiltsWalker says...

lordbuckethead wrote:
Frederick116 wrote:
Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired
You're actually relishing some beautiful woods being bulldozed to allow the creation of another housing estate?

I think either you are a bit strange or I read that as

'I live in a crappy part of Redlands/Lowden/Pews

ham (delete as applicable) and I don't have anywhere nice to walk the dog, so I begrudge you having anywhere. In a word - jealousy?

btw 1 - I don't live anywhere near Bird's Marsh Wood

btw 2 - 'there dogs' (dohh!) 'their village' (correct) - like I said .... strange!
Once its gone, its gone forever.

I suppose we have to find room for all these immigrants don't we?
Taking local jobs from the local population who have been here years.

Time to emigrate I think before this country is finished...
[quote][p][bold]lordbuckethead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frederick116[/bold] wrote: Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired[/p][/quote]You're actually relishing some beautiful woods being bulldozed to allow the creation of another housing estate? I think either you are a bit strange or I read that as 'I live in a crappy part of Redlands/Lowden/Pews ham (delete as applicable) and I don't have anywhere nice to walk the dog, so I begrudge you having anywhere. In a word - jealousy? btw 1 - I don't live anywhere near Bird's Marsh Wood btw 2 - 'there dogs' (dohh!) 'their village' (correct) - like I said .... strange![/p][/quote]Once its gone, its gone forever. I suppose we have to find room for all these immigrants don't we? Taking local jobs from the local population who have been here years. Time to emigrate I think before this country is finished... WiltsWalker
  • Score: 2

2:26pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Ruman Stimulant says...

Frederick116 wrote:
Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired
Congratulations ! You have won the cretin of the year prize. No doubt away from your computer you are not so outspoken with your moronic opinions. I can no longer read these posts because of idiots like you and no doubt mine will be removed even though yours is more offensive. Your opinion is of no interest to anyone but yourself but thankfully I will never have to read it.
[quote][p][bold]Frederick116[/bold] wrote: Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired[/p][/quote]Congratulations ! You have won the cretin of the year prize. No doubt away from your computer you are not so outspoken with your moronic opinions. I can no longer read these posts because of idiots like you and no doubt mine will be removed even though yours is more offensive. Your opinion is of no interest to anyone but yourself but thankfully I will never have to read it. Ruman Stimulant
  • Score: 8

2:55pm Thu 17 Apr 14

WiltsWalker says...

allthedecentnameshav
egone
wrote:
Frederick116 wrote:
Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired
Well said!. Agree totally.
Has allthedecentnameshav
egone actually walked around Birds Marsh and the surrounding countryside?

It's lovely, a rare gem on the edge of the town, us walkers are as dismayed this development will destroy an otherwise peaceful area and be blighted with yet more traffic, fumes, and help destroy the character of side of town.
[quote][p][bold]allthedecentnameshav egone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frederick116[/bold] wrote: Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired[/p][/quote]Well said!. Agree totally.[/p][/quote]Has allthedecentnameshav egone actually walked around Birds Marsh and the surrounding countryside? It's lovely, a rare gem on the edge of the town, us walkers are as dismayed this development will destroy an otherwise peaceful area and be blighted with yet more traffic, fumes, and help destroy the character of side of town. WiltsWalker
  • Score: 8

3:03pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Frederick116 says...

1, The woods themselves are not being bulldized, its the land near them
2. Jealousy? - you know nothing about me, and for the record yes I love walking in the country side as much as the next person (although I dont have a dog)
3. So where do you suggest all the houses go then, I suggest you lobby central government to stop the population of the country rising if you dont want any more housing
4. I'll happilly meet anyone and tell them my views to thier face

HS2
Fracking
Nuclear Power
More Housing
No one wants it in there back yard but they dont have any viable alternative suggestions
I am a Chippenham resident and want to see the town expand and embrace change, not be left behind by everywhere else
1, The woods themselves are not being bulldized, its the land near them 2. Jealousy? - you know nothing about me, and for the record yes I love walking in the country side as much as the next person (although I dont have a dog) 3. So where do you suggest all the houses go then, I suggest you lobby central government to stop the population of the country rising if you dont want any more housing 4. I'll happilly meet anyone and tell them my views to thier face HS2 Fracking Nuclear Power More Housing No one wants it in there back yard but they dont have any viable alternative suggestions I am a Chippenham resident and want to see the town expand and embrace change, not be left behind by everywhere else Frederick116
  • Score: 13

3:26pm Thu 17 Apr 14

lordbuckethead says...

WiltsWalker wrote:
lordbuckethead wrote:
Frederick116 wrote:
Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired
You're actually relishing some beautiful woods being bulldozed to allow the creation of another housing estate?

I think either you are a bit strange or I read that as

'I live in a crappy part of Redlands/Lowden/Pews


ham (delete as applicable) and I don't have anywhere nice to walk the dog, so I begrudge you having anywhere. In a word - jealousy?

btw 1 - I don't live anywhere near Bird's Marsh Wood

btw 2 - 'there dogs' (dohh!) 'their village' (correct) - like I said .... strange!
Once its gone, its gone forever.

I suppose we have to find room for all these immigrants don't we?
Taking local jobs from the local population who have been here years.

Time to emigrate I think before this country is finished...
I agree WiltsWalker - a high proportion of the demand for new housing is fuelled by immigration. For example all the new builds in (north) Swindon its estimated 60% there are occupied by non UK nationals.

But if you emigrate - then you become the immigrant.

Leave UK for more than 6 months - no longer entitled to NHS care - fair?

And emigrate to non EU country and your state pension is frozen even though you might have been paying in for 40+ years - fair?
[quote][p][bold]WiltsWalker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lordbuckethead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frederick116[/bold] wrote: Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired[/p][/quote]You're actually relishing some beautiful woods being bulldozed to allow the creation of another housing estate? I think either you are a bit strange or I read that as 'I live in a crappy part of Redlands/Lowden/Pews ham (delete as applicable) and I don't have anywhere nice to walk the dog, so I begrudge you having anywhere. In a word - jealousy? btw 1 - I don't live anywhere near Bird's Marsh Wood btw 2 - 'there dogs' (dohh!) 'their village' (correct) - like I said .... strange![/p][/quote]Once its gone, its gone forever. I suppose we have to find room for all these immigrants don't we? Taking local jobs from the local population who have been here years. Time to emigrate I think before this country is finished...[/p][/quote]I agree WiltsWalker - a high proportion of the demand for new housing is fuelled by immigration. For example all the new builds in (north) Swindon its estimated 60% there are occupied by non UK nationals. But if you emigrate - then you become the immigrant. Leave UK for more than 6 months - no longer entitled to NHS care - fair? And emigrate to non EU country and your state pension is frozen even though you might have been paying in for 40+ years - fair? lordbuckethead
  • Score: 0

3:37pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Frederick116 says...

Fingers crossed Showell and Rawlings Green will get approval soon, and more much needed housing will be built, I'll crack open the champagne then hee hee!
Fingers crossed Showell and Rawlings Green will get approval soon, and more much needed housing will be built, I'll crack open the champagne then hee hee! Frederick116
  • Score: -8

3:41pm Thu 17 Apr 14

allthedecentnameshavegone says...

WiltsWalker wrote:
allthedecentnameshav

egone
wrote:
Frederick116 wrote:
Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired
Well said!. Agree totally.
Has allthedecentnameshav

egone actually walked around Birds Marsh and the surrounding countryside?

It's lovely, a rare gem on the edge of the town, us walkers are as dismayed this development will destroy an otherwise peaceful area and be blighted with yet more traffic, fumes, and help destroy the character of side of town.
Yes, I have walked around Birds Marsh and I admit that it's a perfectly pleasant, although unremarkable, area of greenery bordering a much larger area of equally unremarakble greenery.

While it may be nice to hold on to it and let the Wiltshire Wildlife Trust destroy it at a slightly more sedate pace than the developers, the fact remains that Chippenham needs more houses to be built, and the site's proximity to the M4 and its links via the bypass to the A420, A4 and A350 make this the most sensible location in which to build them.
[quote][p][bold]WiltsWalker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]allthedecentnameshav egone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frederick116[/bold] wrote: Fantastic news, I cant wait to see the bulldozers move in and start on the expansion of Chippenham bringing jobs and growth. Nimbys who just want to live in the past will just have to walk past a few extra houses to walk there dogs, their village green plan having well and truly backfired[/p][/quote]Well said!. Agree totally.[/p][/quote]Has allthedecentnameshav egone actually walked around Birds Marsh and the surrounding countryside? It's lovely, a rare gem on the edge of the town, us walkers are as dismayed this development will destroy an otherwise peaceful area and be blighted with yet more traffic, fumes, and help destroy the character of side of town.[/p][/quote]Yes, I have walked around Birds Marsh and I admit that it's a perfectly pleasant, although unremarkable, area of greenery bordering a much larger area of equally unremarakble greenery. While it may be nice to hold on to it and let the Wiltshire Wildlife Trust destroy it at a slightly more sedate pace than the developers, the fact remains that Chippenham needs more houses to be built, and the site's proximity to the M4 and its links via the bypass to the A420, A4 and A350 make this the most sensible location in which to build them. allthedecentnameshavegone
  • Score: 8

7:14pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Friend of the People says...

What happened to all those Tory promises of Localism in housing matters.? Seems that the large property developers have more clout with the Tory party than local people.
What happened to all those Tory promises of Localism in housing matters.? Seems that the large property developers have more clout with the Tory party than local people. Friend of the People
  • Score: 2

8:52am Fri 18 Apr 14

scubi says...

The requirement for constant expansion of our towns and cities is obviously a flawed one and anybody with any intelligence must be able to see that it is unsustainable. However, it is a difficult monster to control and even more difficult to kill.
We base our entire economy the need to make more money year on year and to do this we need to make more stuff and provide more services (and therefore more job). To fulfil this, we need an ever expanding population and whether that is through births or immigration doesn't really matter. We therefore need more house for those people to live in, who will then require more stuff and services to run their lives and so the cycle continues.
So to make money the future is to continually expand our towns and cities so that there are more people to buy stuff, ad infinitum, or at least until we run out of green land or the earths resources (including the ability to provide power).
It is probably to late to stop the rampage of this beast across our county side but we should at least try to control it. However, this would require us to step back and rethink how we run our planet and that will certainly not happen in our or our grand children's life times, if at all.
The requirement for constant expansion of our towns and cities is obviously a flawed one and anybody with any intelligence must be able to see that it is unsustainable. However, it is a difficult monster to control and even more difficult to kill. We base our entire economy the need to make more money year on year and to do this we need to make more stuff and provide more services (and therefore more job). To fulfil this, we need an ever expanding population and whether that is through births or immigration doesn't really matter. We therefore need more house for those people to live in, who will then require more stuff and services to run their lives and so the cycle continues. So to make money the future is to continually expand our towns and cities so that there are more people to buy stuff, ad infinitum, or at least until we run out of green land or the earths resources (including the ability to provide power). It is probably to late to stop the rampage of this beast across our county side but we should at least try to control it. However, this would require us to step back and rethink how we run our planet and that will certainly not happen in our or our grand children's life times, if at all. scubi
  • Score: 1

9:45am Fri 18 Apr 14

allthedecentnameshavegone says...

scubi wrote:
The requirement for constant expansion of our towns and cities is obviously a flawed one and anybody with any intelligence must be able to see that it is unsustainable. However, it is a difficult monster to control and even more difficult to kill.
We base our entire economy the need to make more money year on year and to do this we need to make more stuff and provide more services (and therefore more job). To fulfil this, we need an ever expanding population and whether that is through births or immigration doesn't really matter. We therefore need more house for those people to live in, who will then require more stuff and services to run their lives and so the cycle continues.
So to make money the future is to continually expand our towns and cities so that there are more people to buy stuff, ad infinitum, or at least until we run out of green land or the earths resources (including the ability to provide power).
It is probably to late to stop the rampage of this beast across our county side but we should at least try to control it. However, this would require us to step back and rethink how we run our planet and that will certainly not happen in our or our grand children's life times, if at all.
"We base our entire economy the need to make more money year on year and to do this we need to make more stuff and provide more services (and therefore more job). To fulfil this, we need an ever expanding population and whether that is through births or immigration doesn't really matter."

So you're suggesting that people have children in order to make more money? I'm pretty sure that most couples planning children expect to end up with less money, not more.
[quote][p][bold]scubi[/bold] wrote: The requirement for constant expansion of our towns and cities is obviously a flawed one and anybody with any intelligence must be able to see that it is unsustainable. However, it is a difficult monster to control and even more difficult to kill. We base our entire economy the need to make more money year on year and to do this we need to make more stuff and provide more services (and therefore more job). To fulfil this, we need an ever expanding population and whether that is through births or immigration doesn't really matter. We therefore need more house for those people to live in, who will then require more stuff and services to run their lives and so the cycle continues. So to make money the future is to continually expand our towns and cities so that there are more people to buy stuff, ad infinitum, or at least until we run out of green land or the earths resources (including the ability to provide power). It is probably to late to stop the rampage of this beast across our county side but we should at least try to control it. However, this would require us to step back and rethink how we run our planet and that will certainly not happen in our or our grand children's life times, if at all.[/p][/quote]"We base our entire economy the need to make more money year on year and to do this we need to make more stuff and provide more services (and therefore more job). To fulfil this, we need an ever expanding population and whether that is through births or immigration doesn't really matter." So you're suggesting that people have children in order to make more money? I'm pretty sure that most couples planning children expect to end up with less money, not more. allthedecentnameshavegone
  • Score: 1

10:18am Fri 18 Apr 14

scubi says...

"So you're suggesting that people have children in order to make more money? I'm pretty sure that most couples planning children expect to end up with less money, not more"
No, I didn't say or suggest that at all in fact I think you missed my point entirely.
I said that there is a constant need (and encouragement) by businesses to increase the population to fuel the requirement of companies to make year on year increases in profit e.g. More people to make stuff and more people to buy stuff. This is generally to satisfy the shareholders where these exist and the basic commercial requirements to show a business is viable.
We all need money because that is the way the world works and some want more money so they can do or buy all the things they want.
My view (and it is obviously not every bodies) is this is driving the need for more housing in our towns and cities meaning more places like Bird's Marsh will be encroached on until we run out of room and have to build upwards (such as cities like Singapore and Hong Kong) and the resultant devastation on our biodiversity.
"So you're suggesting that people have children in order to make more money? I'm pretty sure that most couples planning children expect to end up with less money, not more" No, I didn't say or suggest that at all in fact I think you missed my point entirely. I said that there is a constant need (and encouragement) by businesses to increase the population to fuel the requirement of companies to make year on year increases in profit e.g. More people to make stuff and more people to buy stuff. This is generally to satisfy the shareholders where these exist and the basic commercial requirements to show a business is viable. We all need money because that is the way the world works and some want more money so they can do or buy all the things they want. My view (and it is obviously not every bodies) is this is driving the need for more housing in our towns and cities meaning more places like Bird's Marsh will be encroached on until we run out of room and have to build upwards (such as cities like Singapore and Hong Kong) and the resultant devastation on our biodiversity. scubi
  • Score: -3

5:52pm Fri 18 Apr 14

allthedecentnameshavegone says...

scubi wrote:
"So you're suggesting that people have children in order to make more money? I'm pretty sure that most couples planning children expect to end up with less money, not more"
No, I didn't say or suggest that at all in fact I think you missed my point entirely.
I said that there is a constant need (and encouragement) by businesses to increase the population to fuel the requirement of companies to make year on year increases in profit e.g. More people to make stuff and more people to buy stuff. This is generally to satisfy the shareholders where these exist and the basic commercial requirements to show a business is viable.
We all need money because that is the way the world works and some want more money so they can do or buy all the things they want.
My view (and it is obviously not every bodies) is this is driving the need for more housing in our towns and cities meaning more places like Bird's Marsh will be encroached on until we run out of room and have to build upwards (such as cities like Singapore and Hong Kong) and the resultant devastation on our biodiversity.
I'm sorry if I missed the point of your ramblings, but you're still wrong.

Businesses don't need, and have negligible opportunity to influence, a growing population. We live in a disposable society with very few items designed and built to last. Combine this with the pace of obsolescence through electronic development and the increasing use of colour and 'fashion' in design and there's a high enough turnover of products to keep most manufacturers happy - just look at how many people upgrade their 'phones annually, or replace their coloured toasters and kettles when they repaint their kitchens.

As for needing a growing population so that they have more people to make stuff, you're wrong again. Most manufacturing companies work hard to minimise the number of people they need to employ - lean manufacturing techniques, mechanisation, automation, computerisation all work to make businesses more efficient and enable them to make more with fewer people. People are an expensive and unreliable manufacturing tool, so that's an added reason for businesses to keep their staff levels down - when was the last time a robot threatened to go on strike, refused to work weekends or came in with a hangover?

You are right that an increasing population will require ever more housing stock, and will therefore mean building over more places like Bird's Marsh, but that's an almost inevitable outcome of us being human, not a side effect of a capitalist economy.
[quote][p][bold]scubi[/bold] wrote: "So you're suggesting that people have children in order to make more money? I'm pretty sure that most couples planning children expect to end up with less money, not more" No, I didn't say or suggest that at all in fact I think you missed my point entirely. I said that there is a constant need (and encouragement) by businesses to increase the population to fuel the requirement of companies to make year on year increases in profit e.g. More people to make stuff and more people to buy stuff. This is generally to satisfy the shareholders where these exist and the basic commercial requirements to show a business is viable. We all need money because that is the way the world works and some want more money so they can do or buy all the things they want. My view (and it is obviously not every bodies) is this is driving the need for more housing in our towns and cities meaning more places like Bird's Marsh will be encroached on until we run out of room and have to build upwards (such as cities like Singapore and Hong Kong) and the resultant devastation on our biodiversity.[/p][/quote]I'm sorry if I missed the point of your ramblings, but you're still wrong. Businesses don't need, and have negligible opportunity to influence, a growing population. We live in a disposable society with very few items designed and built to last. Combine this with the pace of obsolescence through electronic development and the increasing use of colour and 'fashion' in design and there's a high enough turnover of products to keep most manufacturers happy - just look at how many people upgrade their 'phones annually, or replace their coloured toasters and kettles when they repaint their kitchens. As for needing a growing population so that they have more people to make stuff, you're wrong again. Most manufacturing companies work hard to minimise the number of people they need to employ - lean manufacturing techniques, mechanisation, automation, computerisation all work to make businesses more efficient and enable them to make more with fewer people. People are an expensive and unreliable manufacturing tool, so that's an added reason for businesses to keep their staff levels down - when was the last time a robot threatened to go on strike, refused to work weekends or came in with a hangover? You are right that an increasing population will require ever more housing stock, and will therefore mean building over more places like Bird's Marsh, but that's an almost inevitable outcome of us being human, not a side effect of a capitalist economy. allthedecentnameshavegone
  • Score: 4

6:51pm Fri 18 Apr 14

scubi says...

Having an opinion isn't being wrong and like you and everybody else, we are all entitled to one. Just like I think your opinion isn't wrong just very naive.
The reason manufacturers make things as cheap as possible is to make bigger profit margins for their shareholders. If they can sell the same product cheaper than other manufacturers you can also increase your sales and the spin off of this is that cheaper items will not and are not designed to last. That way manufactured items will be replaced regularly keeping the process going. The vast majority of manufactured items are still made through manual labour but much of this is abroad (although there are signs this is changing) but even when they are not they still need people to process them from falling of the production line to the point of sale. The more they make and sell the more people are required to do so. But we digress from the problem of housing and what appears to be our need for ever increasing need for it and its effect on our environment. Just saying it is a human trait and there is nothing that we can do about it shows you have a 'head in the sand' attitude the same attitude many people with a lack of vision have and the reason things will not change and many more places like bird's marsh will disappear from this country. It is a very sad situation.
Having an opinion isn't being wrong and like you and everybody else, we are all entitled to one. Just like I think your opinion isn't wrong just very naive. The reason manufacturers make things as cheap as possible is to make bigger profit margins for their shareholders. If they can sell the same product cheaper than other manufacturers you can also increase your sales and the spin off of this is that cheaper items will not and are not designed to last. That way manufactured items will be replaced regularly keeping the process going. The vast majority of manufactured items are still made through manual labour but much of this is abroad (although there are signs this is changing) but even when they are not they still need people to process them from falling of the production line to the point of sale. The more they make and sell the more people are required to do so. But we digress from the problem of housing and what appears to be our need for ever increasing need for it and its effect on our environment. Just saying it is a human trait and there is nothing that we can do about it shows you have a 'head in the sand' attitude the same attitude many people with a lack of vision have and the reason things will not change and many more places like bird's marsh will disappear from this country. It is a very sad situation. scubi
  • Score: -2

7:33pm Fri 18 Apr 14

allthedecentnameshavegone says...

scubi wrote:
Having an opinion isn't being wrong and like you and everybody else, we are all entitled to one. Just like I think your opinion isn't wrong just very naive.
The reason manufacturers make things as cheap as possible is to make bigger profit margins for their shareholders. If they can sell the same product cheaper than other manufacturers you can also increase your sales and the spin off of this is that cheaper items will not and are not designed to last. That way manufactured items will be replaced regularly keeping the process going. The vast majority of manufactured items are still made through manual labour but much of this is abroad (although there are signs this is changing) but even when they are not they still need people to process them from falling of the production line to the point of sale. The more they make and sell the more people are required to do so. But we digress from the problem of housing and what appears to be our need for ever increasing need for it and its effect on our environment. Just saying it is a human trait and there is nothing that we can do about it shows you have a 'head in the sand' attitude the same attitude many people with a lack of vision have and the reason things will not change and many more places like bird's marsh will disappear from this country. It is a very sad situation.
So, share your vision with us and explain how to make the world's adults have fewer children.
[quote][p][bold]scubi[/bold] wrote: Having an opinion isn't being wrong and like you and everybody else, we are all entitled to one. Just like I think your opinion isn't wrong just very naive. The reason manufacturers make things as cheap as possible is to make bigger profit margins for their shareholders. If they can sell the same product cheaper than other manufacturers you can also increase your sales and the spin off of this is that cheaper items will not and are not designed to last. That way manufactured items will be replaced regularly keeping the process going. The vast majority of manufactured items are still made through manual labour but much of this is abroad (although there are signs this is changing) but even when they are not they still need people to process them from falling of the production line to the point of sale. The more they make and sell the more people are required to do so. But we digress from the problem of housing and what appears to be our need for ever increasing need for it and its effect on our environment. Just saying it is a human trait and there is nothing that we can do about it shows you have a 'head in the sand' attitude the same attitude many people with a lack of vision have and the reason things will not change and many more places like bird's marsh will disappear from this country. It is a very sad situation.[/p][/quote]So, share your vision with us and explain how to make the world's adults have fewer children. allthedecentnameshavegone
  • Score: 2

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