Striking staff take protest to streets

This Is Wiltshire: Firefighters at Drove fire station during a strike earlier this year. They will join council workers on strike today Firefighters at Drove fire station during a strike earlier this year. They will join council workers on strike today

HUNDREDS of striking workers are set to gather in the town centre today as a show of solidarity against the government.

Local government workers, firefighters and teachers are taking action following a number of long running disputes over issues such as pay, pensions and working conditions.

From midday members of the GMB, Unite, Unison, NUT, PCS and the FBU will be gathering at the Cenotaph to send a message of unity.

Throughout the day there will be speakers from union representatives as well as an open mic session for workers to air their grievances.

The unions say the day of action follows many attempts to negotiate with the government which they say have been rebuffed, leaving them no other choice.

Council workers are taking action after they have received no pay increase for a number of years and the unions say the time has come to take a stand.

Chris Watts, the Branch President for Swindon and Wiltshire GMB, said: “We have been left no other choice. We have tried to negotiate with the government and they do not seem too interested.

“No one wants to go on strike but we have to send a strong message to the government.

“For example, last week we contacted the government offering talks to avert the strikes but instead of getting a response, a message was sent out that we were weakening our position which is simply not the case. All the unions want to do is sit down and get a fairer deal for their members.”

Because there are so many unions going on strike and taking part in the rally it is not possible to predict numbers but hundreds are expected to attend.

“These are the lowest paid workers who are doing vital jobs, such as teaching assistants, carers and bin collectors,” said Chris.

“They have not had a pay rise for four years during a period of cuts and we have seen those at the top of the pile benefit. It has proved that we are not all in this together and the time has come for us to say enough is enough.”

A number of schools will be shut throughout the day while Wiltshire Fire and Rescue have warned people to take extra precautions during the strike.

It has also emerged that bin collections in North Swindon could be affected, leading to the possibility of some properties going a month without a pick-up.

A council spokesman said all other council services are expected to be running but asked people to check before they leave home.

Some driving test examiners could be on strike, leading to the cancellation of tests, but students are advised to turn up so they are eligible for compensation.

Comments (130)

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5:55am Thu 10 Jul 14

beach1e says...

What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them
What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them beach1e
  • Score: 51

6:26am Thu 10 Jul 14

gambon says...

public sector workers you are on a good thing i have not had a pay rise in nearly a decade and have been told you are lucky to have a job so stop striking and get on with yours
public sector workers you are on a good thing i have not had a pay rise in nearly a decade and have been told you are lucky to have a job so stop striking and get on with yours gambon
  • Score: 43

6:34am Thu 10 Jul 14

swindondad says...

Lets see how much sympathy they get from the minimum wage shop worker if they have not had to loose a days pay to look after their kids whilst they should have been at school.
Lets see how much sympathy they get from the minimum wage shop worker if they have not had to loose a days pay to look after their kids whilst they should have been at school. swindondad
  • Score: 42

6:48am Thu 10 Jul 14

house on the hill says...

Agree with all the above, this is selfishness in the extreme for their "safe" well paid jobs in a non competitive guaranteed income environment.. They have no clue what working in the private sector is like and most wouldn't last more than a few weeks if they had to. And no I am not saying all public sector workers are the same, but having worked both sides of the fence the public sector job was the easiest I ever had and had more lazy useless people working there than in the private sector and I know many people who have had the same experience. The reason I left was the frustration of working with idiots in such an inefficient environment where very few cared about the customer and the boredom of having nothing to do

And if you don't like your job get another one like loads of us have had to do when we were made redundant, which hardly ever happens in the public sector and when it does they are always well paid and usually more than happy to take the money and run. Most in the private sector would give their right arm for the terms and conditions and pensions on offer

Get real and get back to work you ungrateful so and so's
Agree with all the above, this is selfishness in the extreme for their "safe" well paid jobs in a non competitive guaranteed income environment.. They have no clue what working in the private sector is like and most wouldn't last more than a few weeks if they had to. And no I am not saying all public sector workers are the same, but having worked both sides of the fence the public sector job was the easiest I ever had and had more lazy useless people working there than in the private sector and I know many people who have had the same experience. The reason I left was the frustration of working with idiots in such an inefficient environment where very few cared about the customer and the boredom of having nothing to do And if you don't like your job get another one like loads of us have had to do when we were made redundant, which hardly ever happens in the public sector and when it does they are always well paid and usually more than happy to take the money and run. Most in the private sector would give their right arm for the terms and conditions and pensions on offer Get real and get back to work you ungrateful so and so's house on the hill
  • Score: 41

7:25am Thu 10 Jul 14

BRY328 says...

beach1e wrote:
What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them
Brilliant idea. As for the fire dept - a vital service, how do they strike (again) appear on tv...and remain with a serious look without laughing. I wish my job allowed me to 'sit around' without actually doing my "job" for up to 8 straight days. If not happy/bored after time move on and let someone else have a go.
[quote][p][bold]beach1e[/bold] wrote: What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them[/p][/quote]Brilliant idea. As for the fire dept - a vital service, how do they strike (again) appear on tv...and remain with a serious look without laughing. I wish my job allowed me to 'sit around' without actually doing my "job" for up to 8 straight days. If not happy/bored after time move on and let someone else have a go. BRY328
  • Score: 16

8:02am Thu 10 Jul 14

The Witch says...

What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country.
These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this
What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this The Witch
  • Score: 36

8:30am Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

The Witch, public sector workers fought and died in both world wars, so your point is? When did we become a nation that said the working people should just be happy they have a job no matter the pay and conditions? Should we just bow down down to the bosses and say yes sir no sir? Most public sector workers have had no wage increases in four years. Their work loads in many cases have gone through the roof because of this government's determination to take away public sector jobs and drive workers into the private sector. Who would be an overworked social worker managing more case work than ever, a lowly paid school cleaner, a nurse in the NHS? I know I tend to be in a small minority on this site, but the right wingers on here make me sick with their simplistic rhetoric. What ever happened to solidarity and supporting your fellow workers? We have become a nation of sod you jacks I'm alright. I expect this post to have a minus ten thumbs down within the hour!
The Witch, public sector workers fought and died in both world wars, so your point is? When did we become a nation that said the working people should just be happy they have a job no matter the pay and conditions? Should we just bow down down to the bosses and say yes sir no sir? Most public sector workers have had no wage increases in four years. Their work loads in many cases have gone through the roof because of this government's determination to take away public sector jobs and drive workers into the private sector. Who would be an overworked social worker managing more case work than ever, a lowly paid school cleaner, a nurse in the NHS? I know I tend to be in a small minority on this site, but the right wingers on here make me sick with their simplistic rhetoric. What ever happened to solidarity and supporting your fellow workers? We have become a nation of sod you jacks I'm alright. I expect this post to have a minus ten thumbs down within the hour! Spurs Fan
  • Score: -13

8:44am Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'.

The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place.

Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election.

How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many.

The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'.

Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.
It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 35

8:49am Thu 10 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
The Witch, public sector workers fought and died in both world wars, so your point is? When did we become a nation that said the working people should just be happy they have a job no matter the pay and conditions? Should we just bow down down to the bosses and say yes sir no sir? Most public sector workers have had no wage increases in four years. Their work loads in many cases have gone through the roof because of this government's determination to take away public sector jobs and drive workers into the private sector. Who would be an overworked social worker managing more case work than ever, a lowly paid school cleaner, a nurse in the NHS? I know I tend to be in a small minority on this site, but the right wingers on here make me sick with their simplistic rhetoric. What ever happened to solidarity and supporting your fellow workers? We have become a nation of sod you jacks I'm alright. I expect this post to have a minus ten thumbs down within the hour!
Nobody is born into serfdom and has to bow to their bosses! Everyone is free to vote with their feet and work elsewhere. If the employer can't find people to work under the terms and conditions he offers then he will have no option but to improve them.

The fact that you go on strike rather than leave just shows your employer that you really don't think that the conditions are so bad compared to elsewhere - or no other employer would have you.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The Witch, public sector workers fought and died in both world wars, so your point is? When did we become a nation that said the working people should just be happy they have a job no matter the pay and conditions? Should we just bow down down to the bosses and say yes sir no sir? Most public sector workers have had no wage increases in four years. Their work loads in many cases have gone through the roof because of this government's determination to take away public sector jobs and drive workers into the private sector. Who would be an overworked social worker managing more case work than ever, a lowly paid school cleaner, a nurse in the NHS? I know I tend to be in a small minority on this site, but the right wingers on here make me sick with their simplistic rhetoric. What ever happened to solidarity and supporting your fellow workers? We have become a nation of sod you jacks I'm alright. I expect this post to have a minus ten thumbs down within the hour![/p][/quote]Nobody is born into serfdom and has to bow to their bosses! Everyone is free to vote with their feet and work elsewhere. If the employer can't find people to work under the terms and conditions he offers then he will have no option but to improve them. The fact that you go on strike rather than leave just shows your employer that you really don't think that the conditions are so bad compared to elsewhere - or no other employer would have you. Phantom Poster
  • Score: 33

8:57am Thu 10 Jul 14

BCDR99 says...

At least they've got the balls this time to come out in public and make an issue of it. Much better than just taking the day off and sitting at home grumbling.
Hopefully, the strikers will get a true realisation of the public opinion against them if people can go up and show their distaste in a constructive manner.
At least they've got the balls this time to come out in public and make an issue of it. Much better than just taking the day off and sitting at home grumbling. Hopefully, the strikers will get a true realisation of the public opinion against them if people can go up and show their distaste in a constructive manner. BCDR99
  • Score: 8

9:19am Thu 10 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

beach1e wrote:
What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them
Good idea. It might stop the stupid inaccurate assumptions about them on here if they did.
It's worse than the daily mail on here.
[quote][p][bold]beach1e[/bold] wrote: What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them[/p][/quote]Good idea. It might stop the stupid inaccurate assumptions about them on here if they did. It's worse than the daily mail on here. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -22

9:21am Thu 10 Jul 14

The Witch says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
The Witch, public sector workers fought and died in both world wars, so your point is? When did we become a nation that said the working people should just be happy they have a job no matter the pay and conditions? Should we just bow down down to the bosses and say yes sir no sir? Most public sector workers have had no wage increases in four years. Their work loads in many cases have gone through the roof because of this government's determination to take away public sector jobs and drive workers into the private sector. Who would be an overworked social worker managing more case work than ever, a lowly paid school cleaner, a nurse in the NHS? I know I tend to be in a small minority on this site, but the right wingers on here make me sick with their simplistic rhetoric. What ever happened to solidarity and supporting your fellow workers? We have become a nation of sod you jacks I'm alright. I expect this post to have a minus ten thumbs down within the hour!
For your information Spurs Fan I have worked in both the public and the private sector and I know which one is the cushy number. I just object to strikers using the Cenotaph for a meeting, it was erected to honour the dead not to be a centre for strikers to air their issues. I agree with Phantom Poster don't like the job or conditions then get out and find something you do like but you'll find its a much tougher world working in the private sector.
PS And please don't assume that you know how I vote, I don't refer to you as a left-wing commie!!
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The Witch, public sector workers fought and died in both world wars, so your point is? When did we become a nation that said the working people should just be happy they have a job no matter the pay and conditions? Should we just bow down down to the bosses and say yes sir no sir? Most public sector workers have had no wage increases in four years. Their work loads in many cases have gone through the roof because of this government's determination to take away public sector jobs and drive workers into the private sector. Who would be an overworked social worker managing more case work than ever, a lowly paid school cleaner, a nurse in the NHS? I know I tend to be in a small minority on this site, but the right wingers on here make me sick with their simplistic rhetoric. What ever happened to solidarity and supporting your fellow workers? We have become a nation of sod you jacks I'm alright. I expect this post to have a minus ten thumbs down within the hour![/p][/quote]For your information Spurs Fan I have worked in both the public and the private sector and I know which one is the cushy number. I just object to strikers using the Cenotaph for a meeting, it was erected to honour the dead not to be a centre for strikers to air their issues. I agree with Phantom Poster don't like the job or conditions then get out and find something you do like but you'll find its a much tougher world working in the private sector. PS And please don't assume that you know how I vote, I don't refer to you as a left-wing commie!! The Witch
  • Score: 24

9:36am Thu 10 Jul 14

Hmmmf says...

Chris Watts, the Branch President for Swindon and Wiltshire GMB said:
No one wants to go on strike but we have to send a strong message to the government.

Liar. Obviously you *do* want to strike or you wouldn't have voted to jump on McCluskey's bandwagon. But I suppose honest enough to admit that this is just McCluskey's message to Miliband ahead of the General Election.
I was reading about McCluskey's 3.7% payrise he awarded himself the other day, and was interested to see that a Unite spokesman said it was 'awarded to show people that Union membership wins higher pay rises.' And the spokesman said it without a hint of irony. Solidarity bruvvah, says Len, laughing all the way to his gold-plated final salary pension.
[quote][p][bold]Chris Watts, the Branch President for Swindon and Wiltshire GMB[/bold] said: No one wants to go on strike but we have to send a strong message to the government. [/quote] Liar. Obviously you *do* want to strike or you wouldn't have voted to jump on McCluskey's bandwagon. But I suppose honest enough to admit that this is just McCluskey's message to Miliband ahead of the General Election. I was reading about McCluskey's 3.7% payrise he awarded himself the other day, and was interested to see that a Unite spokesman said it was 'awarded to show people that Union membership wins higher pay rises.' And the spokesman said it without a hint of irony. Solidarity bruvvah, says Len, laughing all the way to his gold-plated final salary pension. Hmmmf
  • Score: 33

9:55am Thu 10 Jul 14

cfa says...

Wouldn't happen in France.
Wouldn't happen in France. cfa
  • Score: 0

10:02am Thu 10 Jul 14

lanmarion says...

And Swindon is supposed to be a conservative town. how many out on strike actually voted tory.
And Swindon is supposed to be a conservative town. how many out on strike actually voted tory. lanmarion
  • Score: -2

10:14am Thu 10 Jul 14

trolley dolley says...

Privatise, Privatise and Privatise.

Enough is enough.

The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector.

No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes.

The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe.

We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.
Privatise, Privatise and Privatise. Enough is enough. The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector. No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes. The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe. We should all stop pandering to these lazy people. trolley dolley
  • Score: 29

11:00am Thu 10 Jul 14

swindondad says...

trolley dolley, said,
The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe.

The miners strike and the devastation of underground coal mining in the UK does nobody any credit. IMO a much better outcome could have been found by calm talk and mediation but "Arthur" went to war against "Maggi" and as "Galtieri" found out that meant loosing.
trolley dolley, said, The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe. The miners strike and the devastation of underground coal mining in the UK does nobody any credit. IMO a much better outcome could have been found by calm talk and mediation but "Arthur" went to war against "Maggi" and as "Galtieri" found out that meant loosing. swindondad
  • Score: 26

11:47am Thu 10 Jul 14

cfa says...

trolley dolley wrote:
Privatise, Privatise and Privatise.

Enough is enough.

The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector.

No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes.

The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe.

We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.
Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise.

Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome.

Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for.
[quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: Privatise, Privatise and Privatise. Enough is enough. The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector. No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes. The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe. We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.[/p][/quote]Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise. Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome. Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for. cfa
  • Score: -14

11:54am Thu 10 Jul 14

redbythesea says...

cfa wrote:
trolley dolley wrote:
Privatise, Privatise and Privatise.

Enough is enough.

The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector.

No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes.

The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe.

We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.
Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise.

Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome.

Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for.
The value of public services "designed to make things better" is being highlighted beautifully today 😃
[quote][p][bold]cfa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: Privatise, Privatise and Privatise. Enough is enough. The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector. No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes. The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe. We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.[/p][/quote]Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise. Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome. Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for.[/p][/quote]The value of public services "designed to make things better" is being highlighted beautifully today 😃 redbythesea
  • Score: 26

11:57am Thu 10 Jul 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

cfa wrote:
trolley dolley wrote:
Privatise, Privatise and Privatise.

Enough is enough.

The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector.

No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes.

The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe.

We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.
Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise.

Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome.

Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for.
Quite agree,

At the moment I'm paying a high cost for very little value. I would be less averse to the high cost if I was getting good value (i.e good public services in return for taking over 70% of my income every year). But I'm not, because most (not all) public services are failing to provide either low cost or particular value.
[quote][p][bold]cfa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: Privatise, Privatise and Privatise. Enough is enough. The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector. No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes. The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe. We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.[/p][/quote]Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise. Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome. Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for.[/p][/quote]Quite agree, At the moment I'm paying a high cost for very little value. I would be less averse to the high cost if I was getting good value (i.e good public services in return for taking over 70% of my income every year). But I'm not, because most (not all) public services are failing to provide either low cost or particular value. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 33

12:26pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Real Librarian says...

gambon wrote:
public sector workers you are on a good thing i have not had a pay rise in nearly a decade and have been told you are lucky to have a job so stop striking and get on with yours
So get another job then.

If you have good skills you should have no problem.
[quote][p][bold]gambon[/bold] wrote: public sector workers you are on a good thing i have not had a pay rise in nearly a decade and have been told you are lucky to have a job so stop striking and get on with yours[/p][/quote]So get another job then. If you have good skills you should have no problem. The Real Librarian
  • Score: -3

12:27pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Real Librarian says...

house on the hill wrote:
Agree with all the above, this is selfishness in the extreme for their "safe" well paid jobs in a non competitive guaranteed income environment.. They have no clue what working in the private sector is like and most wouldn't last more than a few weeks if they had to. And no I am not saying all public sector workers are the same, but having worked both sides of the fence the public sector job was the easiest I ever had and had more lazy useless people working there than in the private sector and I know many people who have had the same experience. The reason I left was the frustration of working with idiots in such an inefficient environment where very few cared about the customer and the boredom of having nothing to do And if you don't like your job get another one like loads of us have had to do when we were made redundant, which hardly ever happens in the public sector and when it does they are always well paid and usually more than happy to take the money and run. Most in the private sector would give their right arm for the terms and conditions and pensions on offer Get real and get back to work you ungrateful so and so's
A whole plate of chips on your shoulder.

Do you want ketchup
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: Agree with all the above, this is selfishness in the extreme for their "safe" well paid jobs in a non competitive guaranteed income environment.. They have no clue what working in the private sector is like and most wouldn't last more than a few weeks if they had to. And no I am not saying all public sector workers are the same, but having worked both sides of the fence the public sector job was the easiest I ever had and had more lazy useless people working there than in the private sector and I know many people who have had the same experience. The reason I left was the frustration of working with idiots in such an inefficient environment where very few cared about the customer and the boredom of having nothing to do And if you don't like your job get another one like loads of us have had to do when we were made redundant, which hardly ever happens in the public sector and when it does they are always well paid and usually more than happy to take the money and run. Most in the private sector would give their right arm for the terms and conditions and pensions on offer Get real and get back to work you ungrateful so and so's[/p][/quote]A whole plate of chips on your shoulder. Do you want ketchup The Real Librarian
  • Score: -37

12:30pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Real Librarian says...

Sandor Clegane wrote:
It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.
The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'.



Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages.

One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign.

If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point.
[quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.[/p][/quote]The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages. One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign. If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point. The Real Librarian
  • Score: -11

12:34pm Thu 10 Jul 14

(S)adam Hussin says...

I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike? (S)adam Hussin
  • Score: 14

12:53pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
[quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know? Davey Gravey
  • Score: 0

12:54pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Hmmmf wrote:
Chris Watts, the Branch President for Swindon and Wiltshire GMB said:
No one wants to go on strike but we have to send a strong message to the government.

Liar. Obviously you *do* want to strike or you wouldn't have voted to jump on McCluskey's bandwagon. But I suppose honest enough to admit that this is just McCluskey's message to Miliband ahead of the General Election.
I was reading about McCluskey's 3.7% payrise he awarded himself the other day, and was interested to see that a Unite spokesman said it was 'awarded to show people that Union membership wins higher pay rises.' And the spokesman said it without a hint of irony. Solidarity bruvvah, says Len, laughing all the way to his gold-plated final salary pension.
Interestingly, Chris Watts is also a Labour party member who stood for election locally in Swindon - and failed - and has been put up as Labour candidate for MP in Devizes.

I wonder if he'd be quite so quick to support union strike action if he was somehow voted in to government?

But, then, it wouldn't be an issue because the unions never strike when the party they bankroll are in office.
[quote][p][bold]Hmmmf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chris Watts, the Branch President for Swindon and Wiltshire GMB[/bold] said: No one wants to go on strike but we have to send a strong message to the government. [/quote] Liar. Obviously you *do* want to strike or you wouldn't have voted to jump on McCluskey's bandwagon. But I suppose honest enough to admit that this is just McCluskey's message to Miliband ahead of the General Election. I was reading about McCluskey's 3.7% payrise he awarded himself the other day, and was interested to see that a Unite spokesman said it was 'awarded to show people that Union membership wins higher pay rises.' And the spokesman said it without a hint of irony. Solidarity bruvvah, says Len, laughing all the way to his gold-plated final salary pension.[/p][/quote]Interestingly, Chris Watts is also a Labour party member who stood for election locally in Swindon - and failed - and has been put up as Labour candidate for MP in Devizes. I wonder if he'd be quite so quick to support union strike action if he was somehow voted in to government? But, then, it wouldn't be an issue because the unions never strike when the party they bankroll are in office. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 19

12:57pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job Phantom Poster
  • Score: 51

1:10pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
[quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -26

1:10pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chrisg46 says...

Sandor Clegane wrote:
Hmmmf wrote:
Chris Watts, the Branch President for Swindon and Wiltshire GMB said:
No one wants to go on strike but we have to send a strong message to the government.

Liar. Obviously you *do* want to strike or you wouldn't have voted to jump on McCluskey's bandwagon. But I suppose honest enough to admit that this is just McCluskey's message to Miliband ahead of the General Election.
I was reading about McCluskey's 3.7% payrise he awarded himself the other day, and was interested to see that a Unite spokesman said it was 'awarded to show people that Union membership wins higher pay rises.' And the spokesman said it without a hint of irony. Solidarity bruvvah, says Len, laughing all the way to his gold-plated final salary pension.
Interestingly, Chris Watts is also a Labour party member who stood for election locally in Swindon - and failed - and has been put up as Labour candidate for MP in Devizes.

I wonder if he'd be quite so quick to support union strike action if he was somehow voted in to government?

But, then, it wouldn't be an issue because the unions never strike when the party they bankroll are in office.
Remind us, who was in power during the 2002/2003 Firemans strike?

In general, i am anti-strike - life is tough for everyone these days and wishful thinking for higher wages etc does not make it better. However, i do support the latest reason for the fire service to go on strike - that is that if they fail a medical or fitness test then they risk losing their pension, regardless of age.
Fair enough if they are young and fit, but by the time they are in their fifties, they will have gone through all kinds of physical traumas and will have picked up dozens of injuries here and there. Holding them to the same standards is not really fair considering the impact they will have made on peoples lives.
To compare, Soldiers cannot serve more than 22 years or so, for that reason.. Older soldiers are usually carrying some kind of injury here or there and are retired off with a good pension, young enough to start a second career.
[quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hmmmf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chris Watts, the Branch President for Swindon and Wiltshire GMB[/bold] said: No one wants to go on strike but we have to send a strong message to the government. [/quote] Liar. Obviously you *do* want to strike or you wouldn't have voted to jump on McCluskey's bandwagon. But I suppose honest enough to admit that this is just McCluskey's message to Miliband ahead of the General Election. I was reading about McCluskey's 3.7% payrise he awarded himself the other day, and was interested to see that a Unite spokesman said it was 'awarded to show people that Union membership wins higher pay rises.' And the spokesman said it without a hint of irony. Solidarity bruvvah, says Len, laughing all the way to his gold-plated final salary pension.[/p][/quote]Interestingly, Chris Watts is also a Labour party member who stood for election locally in Swindon - and failed - and has been put up as Labour candidate for MP in Devizes. I wonder if he'd be quite so quick to support union strike action if he was somehow voted in to government? But, then, it wouldn't be an issue because the unions never strike when the party they bankroll are in office.[/p][/quote]Remind us, who was in power during the 2002/2003 Firemans strike? In general, i am anti-strike - life is tough for everyone these days and wishful thinking for higher wages etc does not make it better. However, i do support the latest reason for the fire service to go on strike - that is that if they fail a medical or fitness test then they risk losing their pension, regardless of age. Fair enough if they are young and fit, but by the time they are in their fifties, they will have gone through all kinds of physical traumas and will have picked up dozens of injuries here and there. Holding them to the same standards is not really fair considering the impact they will have made on peoples lives. To compare, Soldiers cannot serve more than 22 years or so, for that reason.. Older soldiers are usually carrying some kind of injury here or there and are retired off with a good pension, young enough to start a second career. Chrisg46
  • Score: 4

1:23pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Old Town says...

The Real Librarian wrote:
Sandor Clegane wrote:
It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.
The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'.



Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages.

One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign.

If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point.
Which union members thought hard about this strike ?

Do you have any real idea about the numbers of members who actually voted to strike ?

Fire Service - 43% of members voted to strike
Education - 23% of members voted to strike
Civil Service - 18% of members voted to strike
Local Govt. - 18% of members voted to strike

So all this disruption - all this inconvenience and all this absolute nonsense for a rather small MINORITY of union members and you actually sit there and defend it ?

Jeez, no wonder this country was in such a MESS under the last government !
[quote][p][bold]The Real Librarian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.[/p][/quote]The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages. One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign. If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point.[/p][/quote]Which union members thought hard about this strike ? Do you have any real idea about the numbers of members who actually voted to strike ? Fire Service - 43% of members voted to strike Education - 23% of members voted to strike Civil Service - 18% of members voted to strike Local Govt. - 18% of members voted to strike So all this disruption - all this inconvenience and all this absolute nonsense for a rather small MINORITY of union members and you actually sit there and defend it ? Jeez, no wonder this country was in such a MESS under the last government ! Old Town
  • Score: 13

1:26pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

It's good to see a few different points of view being expressed on the Adver site for a change. Usually the vocal right wing hold sway on here, so bravo to those who have not swallowed the life is so much harder in the private sector, all of those that work in the public sector are wasters and don't know how cushy they have it BS. Those on strike today have broken no laws, they have acted democratically and because of this they are vilified in the right wing press . DC is promising more draconian legislation if the Tories win next time. Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. It's a pity we cannot apply the same rules to general elections as we would not have to put up with the present government.
It's good to see a few different points of view being expressed on the Adver site for a change. Usually the vocal right wing hold sway on here, so bravo to those who have not swallowed the life is so much harder in the private sector, all of those that work in the public sector are wasters and don't know how cushy they have it BS. Those on strike today have broken no laws, they have acted democratically and because of this they are vilified in the right wing press . DC is promising more draconian legislation if the Tories win next time. Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. It's a pity we cannot apply the same rules to general elections as we would not have to put up with the present government. Spurs Fan
  • Score: -8

1:27pm Thu 10 Jul 14

delboy1709 says...

do the teachers get fined for having time off in term time
do the teachers get fined for having time off in term time delboy1709
  • Score: 13

1:31pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant?

I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant? I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your Phantom Poster
  • Score: 8

1:32pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Old Town - 21% of the eligible electorate voted Conservative in the last general election, makes the Fire Service Figures, you quote look pretty robust in my opinion!
Old Town - 21% of the eligible electorate voted Conservative in the last general election, makes the Fire Service Figures, you quote look pretty robust in my opinion! Spurs Fan
  • Score: -2

1:33pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

I don't know anyone, at all, who is on a zero hour contract or earning below the living wage. To claim that those the only kind of jobs available is like a character out of Viz endlessly spouting socialist nonsense.

If you're educated (which everyone is, for 'free', in this country), have some aspiration, work reasonably hard and make your own luck rather than sitting around moaning that other people haven't done it for you, there are plenty of interesting and well paying jobs out there.

I mean, take fire fighters - once trained the minimum salary is £28,199 (plus overtime at a higher pay rate). Far more than the national average salary.
I don't know anyone, at all, who is on a zero hour contract or earning below the living wage. To claim that those the only kind of jobs available is like a character out of Viz endlessly spouting socialist nonsense. If you're educated (which everyone is, for 'free', in this country), have some aspiration, work reasonably hard and make your own luck rather than sitting around moaning that other people haven't done it for you, there are plenty of interesting and well paying jobs out there. I mean, take fire fighters - once trained the minimum salary is £28,199 (plus overtime at a higher pay rate). Far more than the national average salary. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 8

1:37pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...


Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful.


Imagine that, actual democracy getting in the way of the Marxist union leaders and their £150,000 per year salary packages. I'm sure they'll be devastated.

Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?
[quote] Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. [/quote] Imagine that, actual democracy getting in the way of the Marxist union leaders and their £150,000 per year salary packages. I'm sure they'll be devastated. Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike? Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 9

1:39pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Old Town - 21% of the eligible electorate voted Conservative in the last general election, makes the Fire Service Figures, you quote look pretty robust in my opinion!
A strike ballot is a simple Yes or No vote - 50/50

In a general election there are numerous parties/candidates people can vote for.

No comparison.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Old Town - 21% of the eligible electorate voted Conservative in the last general election, makes the Fire Service Figures, you quote look pretty robust in my opinion![/p][/quote]A strike ballot is a simple Yes or No vote - 50/50 In a general election there are numerous parties/candidates people can vote for. No comparison. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 12

1:41pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

The Real Librarian wrote:
Sandor Clegane wrote:
It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.
The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'.



Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages.

One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign.

If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point.
'Spiteful' is going on strike for more money while costing those who earn less than you money by doing it.
[quote][p][bold]The Real Librarian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.[/p][/quote]The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages. One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign. If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point.[/p][/quote]'Spiteful' is going on strike for more money while costing those who earn less than you money by doing it. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 13

1:41pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Old Town says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Old Town - 21% of the eligible electorate voted Conservative in the last general election, makes the Fire Service Figures, you quote look pretty robust in my opinion!
That actually has to be one of the worst arguments I have heard on here in a very long time !

21% of the people voted conservative - out of a choice of 12 different choices - it wasn't a yes/no vote !

In the latest ballot for the strike - there were 2 choices - Vote YES to strike or No to not strike

Surely you can see there is a massive difference !

It HAS to make sense that at least 50% of ALL members vote in favour of striking -- you need a majority on a yes/no vote for there to be any credibility to it !
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Old Town - 21% of the eligible electorate voted Conservative in the last general election, makes the Fire Service Figures, you quote look pretty robust in my opinion![/p][/quote]That actually has to be one of the worst arguments I have heard on here in a very long time ! 21% of the people voted conservative - out of a choice of 12 different choices - it wasn't a yes/no vote ! In the latest ballot for the strike - there were 2 choices - Vote YES to strike or No to not strike Surely you can see there is a massive difference ! It HAS to make sense that at least 50% of ALL members vote in favour of striking -- you need a majority on a yes/no vote for there to be any credibility to it ! Old Town
  • Score: 5

1:44pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant?

I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your
Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you.
As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.
[quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant? I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your[/p][/quote]Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you. As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -2

1:52pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant?

I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your
Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you.
As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.
Yes I have!
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant? I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your[/p][/quote]Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you. As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.[/p][/quote]Yes I have! Phantom Poster
  • Score: 3

1:54pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

sandor clegane wrote "I don't know anyone, at all, who is on a zero hour contract or earning below the living wage. To claim that those the only kind of jobs available is like a character out of Viz endlessly spouting socialist nonsense."

Mr Clegane you obviously don't mix with people on zero hours contracts who don't earn a living wage (what ever a living wage maybe) However, more 600,000 people in the workforce are now on these contracts an increase of about 150% since 2011, Because no one in your immediate social circle is not on a zero hours contract with the uncertainty that brings does not mean that this is any the less important.
sandor clegane wrote "I don't know anyone, at all, who is on a zero hour contract or earning below the living wage. To claim that those the only kind of jobs available is like a character out of Viz endlessly spouting socialist nonsense." Mr Clegane you obviously don't mix with people on zero hours contracts who don't earn a living wage (what ever a living wage maybe) However, more 600,000 people in the workforce are now on these contracts an increase of about 150% since 2011, Because no one in your immediate social circle is not on a zero hours contract with the uncertainty that brings does not mean that this is any the less important. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 6

2:01pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant?

I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your
Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you.
As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.
Yes I have!
Can you tell me where to look then as my son is looking for work.
Has all the necessary gcse's at grade c or above. 2 years at college doing a levels(results pending) and cannot find a job.
Barely getting a response let alone an interview.
[quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant? I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your[/p][/quote]Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you. As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.[/p][/quote]Yes I have![/p][/quote]Can you tell me where to look then as my son is looking for work. Has all the necessary gcse's at grade c or above. 2 years at college doing a levels(results pending) and cannot find a job. Barely getting a response let alone an interview. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -2

2:11pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Real Librarian says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
Sounds like a nation where the workforce need to organise and take collective action then
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]Sounds like a nation where the workforce need to organise and take collective action then The Real Librarian
  • Score: 1

2:17pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Real Librarian says...

Sandor Clegane wrote:
Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful.
Imagine that, actual democracy getting in the way of the Marxist union leaders and their £150,000 per year salary packages. I'm sure they'll be devastated. Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?
QUOTE
Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?
UNQUOTE

David Cameron represents Witeny.
In 2010 there were 78,220 voters
He got votes from 22,153 of them, a figure of just 28.3%

Shall we declare him unable to continue on the same basis?
[quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: [quote] Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. [/quote] Imagine that, actual democracy getting in the way of the Marxist union leaders and their £150,000 per year salary packages. I'm sure they'll be devastated. Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?[/p][/quote]QUOTE Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike? UNQUOTE David Cameron represents Witeny. In 2010 there were 78,220 voters He got votes from 22,153 of them, a figure of just 28.3% Shall we declare him unable to continue on the same basis? The Real Librarian
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Real Librarian says...

Sandor Clegane wrote:
The Real Librarian wrote:
Sandor Clegane wrote: It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.
The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages. One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign. If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point.
'Spiteful' is going on strike for more money while costing those who earn less than you money by doing it.
Maybe if people don't earn much they should collectively organise - just as these people are doing.

These people (I'm not one of them) work hard and have seen colleagues made redundant, budgets slashed and wages frozen.

They deserve more than a slap in the face pay cut.

Like I said, I'm not one of them, but I have friends who are, and I recognise the justice of what they say.
[quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Real Librarian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.[/p][/quote]The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages. One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign. If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point.[/p][/quote]'Spiteful' is going on strike for more money while costing those who earn less than you money by doing it.[/p][/quote]Maybe if people don't earn much they should collectively organise - just as these people are doing. These people (I'm not one of them) work hard and have seen colleagues made redundant, budgets slashed and wages frozen. They deserve more than a slap in the face pay cut. Like I said, I'm not one of them, but I have friends who are, and I recognise the justice of what they say. The Real Librarian
  • Score: 26

2:23pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Old Town says...

The Real Librarian wrote:
Sandor Clegane wrote:
Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful.
Imagine that, actual democracy getting in the way of the Marxist union leaders and their £150,000 per year salary packages. I'm sure they'll be devastated. Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?
QUOTE
Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?
UNQUOTE

David Cameron represents Witeny.
In 2010 there were 78,220 voters
He got votes from 22,153 of them, a figure of just 28.3%

Shall we declare him unable to continue on the same basis?
You just really don't get it do you ?!?

21% of the people voted conservative - out of a choice of 12 different choices - it wasn't a yes/no vote !

28% voted for DC -- out of how many candidates, 4or5 ?

In the latest ballot for the strike - there were 2 choices - Vote YES to strike or No to not strike

It was not a vote for "here are 5 choices please pick" - it was simply yes or no

Surely you can see there is a massive difference !

It HAS to make sense that at least 50% of ALL members vote in favour of striking -- you need a majority on a yes/no vote for there to be any credibility to it
[quote][p][bold]The Real Librarian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: [quote] Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. [/quote] Imagine that, actual democracy getting in the way of the Marxist union leaders and their £150,000 per year salary packages. I'm sure they'll be devastated. Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?[/p][/quote]QUOTE Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike? UNQUOTE David Cameron represents Witeny. In 2010 there were 78,220 voters He got votes from 22,153 of them, a figure of just 28.3% Shall we declare him unable to continue on the same basis?[/p][/quote]You just really don't get it do you ?!? 21% of the people voted conservative - out of a choice of 12 different choices - it wasn't a yes/no vote ! 28% voted for DC -- out of how many candidates, 4or5 ? In the latest ballot for the strike - there were 2 choices - Vote YES to strike or No to not strike It was not a vote for "here are 5 choices please pick" - it was simply yes or no Surely you can see there is a massive difference ! It HAS to make sense that at least 50% of ALL members vote in favour of striking -- you need a majority on a yes/no vote for there to be any credibility to it Old Town
  • Score: 4

2:25pm Thu 10 Jul 14

PJC says...

This comment thread is so vitriolic, I'm surprised Godwin's Law hasn't kicked in yet!
This comment thread is so vitriolic, I'm surprised Godwin's Law hasn't kicked in yet! PJC
  • Score: 24

2:31pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Old Town says...

I guess it shows how much anger can be caused by so few selfish people !
I guess it shows how much anger can be caused by so few selfish people ! Old Town
  • Score: -19

2:31pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

PJC is it time to mention Adolf or the Nazis?
PJC is it time to mention Adolf or the Nazis? Spurs Fan
  • Score: 0

2:35pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

The Real Librarian wrote:
Sandor Clegane wrote:
The Real Librarian wrote:
Sandor Clegane wrote: It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.
The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages. One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign. If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point.
'Spiteful' is going on strike for more money while costing those who earn less than you money by doing it.
Maybe if people don't earn much they should collectively organise - just as these people are doing.

These people (I'm not one of them) work hard and have seen colleagues made redundant, budgets slashed and wages frozen.

They deserve more than a slap in the face pay cut.

Like I said, I'm not one of them, but I have friends who are, and I recognise the justice of what they say.
We would all like more money, easier conditions, less hours etc. but it's just not possible, certainly not in the current climate.

The unions are living in a bygone era, one that won't return. They need to accept that all the lobbying and strike action in the world will never elicit anything more than what the government of the day are able and willing to give them.

General public opinion seems to be against these strikes. Indeed, I even know staunch lefties who are cheesed off with the teachers today because it's cost them money and time off work that they can ill afford. The government know this and will use the strikes against the unions and against Labour. Tristram Hunt has already taken a bashing in the media for not condemning the strike action.

Nobody is going to win out of this, except maybe the Tories.
[quote][p][bold]The Real Librarian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Real Librarian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: It's not a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. For millions of private sector workers it's a case of, 'You're actually paid more, with a better pension, and work in a much easier environment than I do for less hours per week but yet are inconveniencing me because you want me to give you even more of the money I do make'. The public sector unions NEVER stop with their demands because they play the 3:2 game. Demand more than what you want (3) the wait for the government to eventually 'compromise' with an offer of (2) and then walk away accepting it because (2) is what you actually wanted in the first place. Decades of doing the same have shown them it works, sadly. Add a non-Labour government into the mix and you get what we've got now: the public sector unions causing mischief in the 10 months up to the next general election. How many private sector workers earn anything like what the average union boss earns? £150,000 per year - not many. The socialists on here are like Pavlov's Dog. The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Most people in the private sector are well aware how easy it is in the public sector because many of them have worked in it themselves at one time or another.[/p][/quote]The unions ring the strike action bell and they immediately support it and start going on about 'slavery' and 'workhouses'. Hmm. Actually most union members thought long and hard about the inconvenicence this would cause, not to mention the lost wages. One Unison Branch secretary told me that it was proposed at national level to make this a two day strike and he opposed it, threatening to resign. If you stopped being so spiteful for a moment you might realise these people have a point.[/p][/quote]'Spiteful' is going on strike for more money while costing those who earn less than you money by doing it.[/p][/quote]Maybe if people don't earn much they should collectively organise - just as these people are doing. These people (I'm not one of them) work hard and have seen colleagues made redundant, budgets slashed and wages frozen. They deserve more than a slap in the face pay cut. Like I said, I'm not one of them, but I have friends who are, and I recognise the justice of what they say.[/p][/quote]We would all like more money, easier conditions, less hours etc. but it's just not possible, certainly not in the current climate. The unions are living in a bygone era, one that won't return. They need to accept that all the lobbying and strike action in the world will never elicit anything more than what the government of the day are able and willing to give them. General public opinion seems to be against these strikes. Indeed, I even know staunch lefties who are cheesed off with the teachers today because it's cost them money and time off work that they can ill afford. The government know this and will use the strikes against the unions and against Labour. Tristram Hunt has already taken a bashing in the media for not condemning the strike action. Nobody is going to win out of this, except maybe the Tories. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 4

2:36pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Old Town your last comment is ridiculous, this thread has gone on because there are individuals commenting against the usual right wing bias of this comments page. In your eyes people striking for better pay and conditions are selfish. In my opinion they should be congratulated for taking a stand and saying enough is enough.
Old Town your last comment is ridiculous, this thread has gone on because there are individuals commenting against the usual right wing bias of this comments page. In your eyes people striking for better pay and conditions are selfish. In my opinion they should be congratulated for taking a stand and saying enough is enough. Spurs Fan
  • Score: -4

2:36pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

The Real Librarian wrote:
Sandor Clegane wrote:
Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful.
Imagine that, actual democracy getting in the way of the Marxist union leaders and their £150,000 per year salary packages. I'm sure they'll be devastated. Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?
QUOTE
Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?
UNQUOTE

David Cameron represents Witeny.
In 2010 there were 78,220 voters
He got votes from 22,153 of them, a figure of just 28.3%

Shall we declare him unable to continue on the same basis?
This has been explained, very clearly above.

If you still can't grasp the rather glaring difference, well...
[quote][p][bold]The Real Librarian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: [quote] Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. [/quote] Imagine that, actual democracy getting in the way of the Marxist union leaders and their £150,000 per year salary packages. I'm sure they'll be devastated. Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike?[/p][/quote]QUOTE Are you suggesting it should remain entirely lawful for a union to drag its members out on strike after just 25% of them vote for the strike? UNQUOTE David Cameron represents Witeny. In 2010 there were 78,220 voters He got votes from 22,153 of them, a figure of just 28.3% Shall we declare him unable to continue on the same basis?[/p][/quote]This has been explained, very clearly above. If you still can't grasp the rather glaring difference, well... Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 7

2:38pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Old Town your last comment is ridiculous, this thread has gone on because there are individuals commenting against the usual right wing bias of this comments page. In your eyes people striking for better pay and conditions are selfish. In my opinion they should be congratulated for taking a stand and saying enough is enough.
But your, and others', left-wing bias is perfectly acceptable and, presumably, should be published without any opposing views heard?

Why is is that the Left seem to believe they're the only ones who should be allowed their point of view heard... despite it clearly being in a small minority?
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Old Town your last comment is ridiculous, this thread has gone on because there are individuals commenting against the usual right wing bias of this comments page. In your eyes people striking for better pay and conditions are selfish. In my opinion they should be congratulated for taking a stand and saying enough is enough.[/p][/quote]But your, and others', left-wing bias is perfectly acceptable and, presumably, should be published without any opposing views heard? Why is is that the Left seem to believe they're the only ones who should be allowed their point of view heard... despite it clearly being in a small minority? Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 5

2:40pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
sandor clegane wrote "I don't know anyone, at all, who is on a zero hour contract or earning below the living wage. To claim that those the only kind of jobs available is like a character out of Viz endlessly spouting socialist nonsense."

Mr Clegane you obviously don't mix with people on zero hours contracts who don't earn a living wage (what ever a living wage maybe) However, more 600,000 people in the workforce are now on these contracts an increase of about 150% since 2011, Because no one in your immediate social circle is not on a zero hours contract with the uncertainty that brings does not mean that this is any the less important.
600,000 out of the 29.73 million currently in some form of employment in the UK.

That's around 2 in every 100 employed people.

Little wonder I don't know any of them.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: sandor clegane wrote "I don't know anyone, at all, who is on a zero hour contract or earning below the living wage. To claim that those the only kind of jobs available is like a character out of Viz endlessly spouting socialist nonsense." Mr Clegane you obviously don't mix with people on zero hours contracts who don't earn a living wage (what ever a living wage maybe) However, more 600,000 people in the workforce are now on these contracts an increase of about 150% since 2011, Because no one in your immediate social circle is not on a zero hours contract with the uncertainty that brings does not mean that this is any the less important.[/p][/quote]600,000 out of the 29.73 million currently in some form of employment in the UK. That's around 2 in every 100 employed people. Little wonder I don't know any of them. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 6

2:48pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Mr Clegane,

I think you may have misread my post, I was commenting upon how this post has gone on, and on without someone resorting to mentioning Adolf Hitler and/or the Nazis (Godwins Law). Usually the prevailing right wing bias on this site carries the day and posts grind to a halt. However, today it seems that we at least have a difference of opinion for once on the Adver website. I for one would not want not want any one opinion voiced on this or any site. Old Town attributes the length of this post down to anger caused by the strikers being selfish. i was merely voicing a different opinion, and thus prolonging the length of this post!
Mr Clegane, I think you may have misread my post, I was commenting upon how this post has gone on, and on without someone resorting to mentioning Adolf Hitler and/or the Nazis (Godwins Law). Usually the prevailing right wing bias on this site carries the day and posts grind to a halt. However, today it seems that we at least have a difference of opinion for once on the Adver website. I for one would not want not want any one opinion voiced on this or any site. Old Town attributes the length of this post down to anger caused by the strikers being selfish. i was merely voicing a different opinion, and thus prolonging the length of this post! Spurs Fan
  • Score: 0

2:54pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Mr Clegane, just because you do not know anyone on a zero hours contract does not alter my point or lessen the impact of such contract on those that have them. In the UK there are 800,000 people with Alzheimers disease. I personally do not know anyone who has Alzheimers disease, but that does not diminish it's effects on those that do.
Mr Clegane, just because you do not know anyone on a zero hours contract does not alter my point or lessen the impact of such contract on those that have them. In the UK there are 800,000 people with Alzheimers disease. I personally do not know anyone who has Alzheimers disease, but that does not diminish it's effects on those that do. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 3

2:59pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Mr Clegane, just because you do not know anyone on a zero hours contract does not alter my point or lessen the impact of such contract on those that have them. In the UK there are 800,000 people with Alzheimers disease. I personally do not know anyone who has Alzheimers disease, but that does not diminish it's effects on those that do.
But neither are you, or your comrades, suggesting that everyone will get Alzheimers.

One of your comrades made the public claim that the only jobs available are zero hour, less than living wage jobs.

Even by your own figures, this is very clearly not the case in any way, shape or form.

2% is 2%. I'm not suggesting zero hour contracts don't exist - indeed, there is plenty of evidence to suggest some employees actually prefer them - but to suggest they are all that's available in the UK today is simply yet more left-wing claptrap and is blatantly untrue.

I have absolutely no problem with people debating and advancing any viewpoint they wish, but when people resort to hyperbolic nonsense as if it had anything to do with reality, it has to be called out.

Equally, if somebody made the claim that all public sector employees are workshy money grabbers, you'd also likely be one of the first to respond to point out it's not necessarily the case with all of them.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Mr Clegane, just because you do not know anyone on a zero hours contract does not alter my point or lessen the impact of such contract on those that have them. In the UK there are 800,000 people with Alzheimers disease. I personally do not know anyone who has Alzheimers disease, but that does not diminish it's effects on those that do.[/p][/quote]But neither are you, or your comrades, suggesting that everyone will get Alzheimers. One of your comrades made the public claim that the only jobs available are zero hour, less than living wage jobs. Even by your own figures, this is very clearly not the case in any way, shape or form. 2% is 2%. I'm not suggesting zero hour contracts don't exist - indeed, there is plenty of evidence to suggest some employees actually prefer them - but to suggest they are all that's available in the UK today is simply yet more left-wing claptrap and is blatantly untrue. I have absolutely no problem with people debating and advancing any viewpoint they wish, but when people resort to hyperbolic nonsense as if it had anything to do with reality, it has to be called out. Equally, if somebody made the claim that all public sector employees are workshy money grabbers, you'd also likely be one of the first to respond to point out it's not necessarily the case with all of them. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 0

3:05pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Sandor Clegane wrote:
Spurs Fan wrote:
sandor clegane wrote "I don't know anyone, at all, who is on a zero hour contract or earning below the living wage. To claim that those the only kind of jobs available is like a character out of Viz endlessly spouting socialist nonsense."

Mr Clegane you obviously don't mix with people on zero hours contracts who don't earn a living wage (what ever a living wage maybe) However, more 600,000 people in the workforce are now on these contracts an increase of about 150% since 2011, Because no one in your immediate social circle is not on a zero hours contract with the uncertainty that brings does not mean that this is any the less important.
600,000 out of the 29.73 million currently in some form of employment in the UK.

That's around 2 in every 100 employed people.

Little wonder I don't know any of them.
That's because a good number of those people are on zero hour contracts because it suits them to be, or because it's financially beneficial to them. We need to get away from the myth that zero hour contracts are always bad - in fact some very highly paid contractors are on this type of contract. Just because there's "600,000" people on them, doesn't mean that's 600,000 people living below the breadline.
[quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: sandor clegane wrote "I don't know anyone, at all, who is on a zero hour contract or earning below the living wage. To claim that those the only kind of jobs available is like a character out of Viz endlessly spouting socialist nonsense." Mr Clegane you obviously don't mix with people on zero hours contracts who don't earn a living wage (what ever a living wage maybe) However, more 600,000 people in the workforce are now on these contracts an increase of about 150% since 2011, Because no one in your immediate social circle is not on a zero hours contract with the uncertainty that brings does not mean that this is any the less important.[/p][/quote]600,000 out of the 29.73 million currently in some form of employment in the UK. That's around 2 in every 100 employed people. Little wonder I don't know any of them.[/p][/quote]That's because a good number of those people are on zero hour contracts because it suits them to be, or because it's financially beneficial to them. We need to get away from the myth that zero hour contracts are always bad - in fact some very highly paid contractors are on this type of contract. Just because there's "600,000" people on them, doesn't mean that's 600,000 people living below the breadline. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 3

3:09pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cfa says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Old Town your last comment is ridiculous, this thread has gone on because there are individuals commenting against the usual right wing bias of this comments page. In your eyes people striking for better pay and conditions are selfish. In my opinion they should be congratulated for taking a stand and saying enough is enough.
Could not agree more.

It would appear from reading most of the posts on this thread that because you are employed in the public sector, it is assumed that you have all the particular benefits - final salary pension, job security, high pay, easy job...........etc - that your right to take any action is somehow rescinded.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Old Town your last comment is ridiculous, this thread has gone on because there are individuals commenting against the usual right wing bias of this comments page. In your eyes people striking for better pay and conditions are selfish. In my opinion they should be congratulated for taking a stand and saying enough is enough.[/p][/quote]Could not agree more. It would appear from reading most of the posts on this thread that because you are employed in the public sector, it is assumed that you have all the particular benefits - final salary pension, job security, high pay, easy job...........etc - that your right to take any action is somehow rescinded. cfa
  • Score: 2

3:11pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Mr Clegane, I don't have comrades as I'm neither a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist for that matter. I was schooled in Marxist orthodoxy while reading history at university and if I am anything, I'm a social democrat. Anyway moving on.... your earlier post in my opinion, attempted to trivialise the prevalence of zero hours contracts in the current jobs market. You are of course right to say that that is all that is out there at the present. Nevertheless, they are an increasing development in the jobs sector and in again in my opinion are not beneficial to low paid workers.
Mr Clegane, I don't have comrades as I'm neither a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist for that matter. I was schooled in Marxist orthodoxy while reading history at university and if I am anything, I'm a social democrat. Anyway moving on.... your earlier post in my opinion, attempted to trivialise the prevalence of zero hours contracts in the current jobs market. You are of course right to say that that is all that is out there at the present. Nevertheless, they are an increasing development in the jobs sector and in again in my opinion are not beneficial to low paid workers. Spurs Fan
  • Score: -1

3:14pm Thu 10 Jul 14

South Stand says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant?

I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your
Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you.
As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.
You're correct about the 70's.........a truly dreadful period with a Labour government in office. Remember that do you? Culminating in the 'winter of discontent'. Bins not emptied for weeks, bodies not buried for weeks. The streets piled 20' high with rubbish etc.
Yes, I remember the terrible 70's under a Labour government.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant? I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your[/p][/quote]Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you. As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.[/p][/quote]You're correct about the 70's.........a truly dreadful period with a Labour government in office. Remember that do you? Culminating in the 'winter of discontent'. Bins not emptied for weeks, bodies not buried for weeks. The streets piled 20' high with rubbish etc. Yes, I remember the terrible 70's under a Labour government. South Stand
  • Score: 2

3:17pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant?

I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your
Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you.
As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.
Yes I have!
Can you tell me where to look then as my son is looking for work.
Has all the necessary gcse's at grade c or above. 2 years at college doing a levels(results pending) and cannot find a job.
Barely getting a response let alone an interview.
As an employer myself, I'd suggest he determines what he wants to do for a living long term, then goes on to do some higher level education to support that goal, either at university or perhaps at somewhere like the UTC.

There are actually quite a lot of jobs out there but availability depends on your skills and experience. Try to do a course with a placement, work hard and ask for a reference. Many employers do not want to take on someone with no experience because it's an unknown. A glowing reference saying how reliable and hard working you were on a placement can help to mitigate against that.

I'd also suggest you get someone with experience to look over the CV. You'd be amazed how many people fail at the first hurdle by having spelling mistakes or errors on their CV. When there is little or no work experience on the CV these kinds of errors tend to stand out more. There are free workshops you can attend that can help you with writing a good CV and getting it noticed - and many employment agencies can help with CV checking too, register with as many as you can.

Hope that's of some use!
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant? I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your[/p][/quote]Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you. As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.[/p][/quote]Yes I have![/p][/quote]Can you tell me where to look then as my son is looking for work. Has all the necessary gcse's at grade c or above. 2 years at college doing a levels(results pending) and cannot find a job. Barely getting a response let alone an interview.[/p][/quote]As an employer myself, I'd suggest he determines what he wants to do for a living long term, then goes on to do some higher level education to support that goal, either at university or perhaps at somewhere like the UTC. There are actually quite a lot of jobs out there but availability depends on your skills and experience. Try to do a course with a placement, work hard and ask for a reference. Many employers do not want to take on someone with no experience because it's an unknown. A glowing reference saying how reliable and hard working you were on a placement can help to mitigate against that. I'd also suggest you get someone with experience to look over the CV. You'd be amazed how many people fail at the first hurdle by having spelling mistakes or errors on their CV. When there is little or no work experience on the CV these kinds of errors tend to stand out more. There are free workshops you can attend that can help you with writing a good CV and getting it noticed - and many employment agencies can help with CV checking too, register with as many as you can. Hope that's of some use! The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 7

3:17pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chrisg46 says...

Say what you like about them, there werent many strikes under the nazi's... Plenty of airstrikes on them, but none under them...
Say what you like about them, there werent many strikes under the nazi's... Plenty of airstrikes on them, but none under them... Chrisg46
  • Score: 4

3:20pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Mr Clegane, I don't have comrades as I'm neither a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist for that matter. I was schooled in Marxist orthodoxy while reading history at university and if I am anything, I'm a social democrat. Anyway moving on.... your earlier post in my opinion, attempted to trivialise the prevalence of zero hours contracts in the current jobs market. You are of course right to say that that is all that is out there at the present. Nevertheless, they are an increasing development in the jobs sector and in again in my opinion are not beneficial to low paid workers.
I accept you may not personally identify yourself as a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist. You may also not appreciate why it appears that way to others.

I didn't attempt to 'trivialise' anything. When it's something that runs at around 2% of all employees then there's no need to say anything more about it. It's 2%. A tiny minority.

It was actually another contributor who claimed that's 'all' there is out there and you then attempted to imply it's a widespread issue when, clearly, it isn't.

You also seem keen to overlook the fact that, for some employees, zero hour contracts actually work in their favour and are beneficial.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Mr Clegane, I don't have comrades as I'm neither a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist for that matter. I was schooled in Marxist orthodoxy while reading history at university and if I am anything, I'm a social democrat. Anyway moving on.... your earlier post in my opinion, attempted to trivialise the prevalence of zero hours contracts in the current jobs market. You are of course right to say that that is all that is out there at the present. Nevertheless, they are an increasing development in the jobs sector and in again in my opinion are not beneficial to low paid workers.[/p][/quote]I accept you may not personally identify yourself as a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist. You may also not appreciate why it appears that way to others. I didn't attempt to 'trivialise' anything. When it's something that runs at around 2% of all employees then there's no need to say anything more about it. It's 2%. A tiny minority. It was actually another contributor who claimed that's 'all' there is out there and you then attempted to imply it's a widespread issue when, clearly, it isn't. You also seem keen to overlook the fact that, for some employees, zero hour contracts actually work in their favour and are beneficial. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 2

3:20pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

South Stand, I also remember the 1970s, three day weeks, power cuts and schools closed. Oh yes that was under Ted Heath's Tory government. The thing with history is you can use it to back up almost any claim you wish to make!
South Stand, I also remember the 1970s, three day weeks, power cuts and schools closed. Oh yes that was under Ted Heath's Tory government. The thing with history is you can use it to back up almost any claim you wish to make! Spurs Fan
  • Score: 3

3:28pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Gerequois says...

One day, maybe people will stop with the ridiculous Tory/Labour "ner, ner, my party is better than yours" rubbish and wise-up to the fact that they are *ALL* as bad as each other - finding a way to properly reform and change our political system could be the only way to really make a difference (but those that are inclined to political activism all seem to be thoroughly occupied with the support of one or the other side of the current broken system).
One day, maybe people will stop with the ridiculous Tory/Labour "ner, ner, my party is better than yours" rubbish and wise-up to the fact that they are *ALL* as bad as each other - finding a way to properly reform and change our political system could be the only way to really make a difference (but those that are inclined to political activism all seem to be thoroughly occupied with the support of one or the other side of the current broken system). Gerequois
  • Score: 5

3:28pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Mr Clegane, I believe in the rule of law and the ballot box and if others cannot see that I am not a communist in any form then that is a failing in them or their education. While it may be a case that zero hours contracts may benefit some I have no doubt that they do not benefit the majority. Figures are pretty scant around those on zero hours contracts and still entitled to state benefits.
Mr Clegane, I believe in the rule of law and the ballot box and if others cannot see that I am not a communist in any form then that is a failing in them or their education. While it may be a case that zero hours contracts may benefit some I have no doubt that they do not benefit the majority. Figures are pretty scant around those on zero hours contracts and still entitled to state benefits. Spurs Fan
  • Score: -4

3:30pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Gerequois wrote:
One day, maybe people will stop with the ridiculous Tory/Labour "ner, ner, my party is better than yours" rubbish and wise-up to the fact that they are *ALL* as bad as each other - finding a way to properly reform and change our political system could be the only way to really make a difference (but those that are inclined to political activism all seem to be thoroughly occupied with the support of one or the other side of the current broken system).
Very well said!
[quote][p][bold]Gerequois[/bold] wrote: One day, maybe people will stop with the ridiculous Tory/Labour "ner, ner, my party is better than yours" rubbish and wise-up to the fact that they are *ALL* as bad as each other - finding a way to properly reform and change our political system could be the only way to really make a difference (but those that are inclined to political activism all seem to be thoroughly occupied with the support of one or the other side of the current broken system).[/p][/quote]Very well said! Spurs Fan
  • Score: 0

3:38pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Gerequois wrote:
One day, maybe people will stop with the ridiculous Tory/Labour "ner, ner, my party is better than yours" rubbish and wise-up to the fact that they are *ALL* as bad as each other - finding a way to properly reform and change our political system could be the only way to really make a difference (but those that are inclined to political activism all seem to be thoroughly occupied with the support of one or the other side of the current broken system).
Very well said!
Out of interest, Spurs Fan, which system would you like the UK to operate under if you could wave a magic wand and have it happen tomorrow?
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gerequois[/bold] wrote: One day, maybe people will stop with the ridiculous Tory/Labour "ner, ner, my party is better than yours" rubbish and wise-up to the fact that they are *ALL* as bad as each other - finding a way to properly reform and change our political system could be the only way to really make a difference (but those that are inclined to political activism all seem to be thoroughly occupied with the support of one or the other side of the current broken system).[/p][/quote]Very well said![/p][/quote]Out of interest, Spurs Fan, which system would you like the UK to operate under if you could wave a magic wand and have it happen tomorrow? Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 2

3:43pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Mr Clegane, I believe in the rule of law and the ballot box and if others cannot see that I am not a communist in any form then that is a failing in them or their education. While it may be a case that zero hours contracts may benefit some I have no doubt that they do not benefit the majority. Figures are pretty scant around those on zero hours contracts and still entitled to state benefits.
You've just contradicted yourself. First you say you have "no doubt" they do not benefit the majority. Then you say there are no figures relating to that scenario. So how do you have "no doubt" - blind faith or do you know something the rest of us don't?
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Mr Clegane, I believe in the rule of law and the ballot box and if others cannot see that I am not a communist in any form then that is a failing in them or their education. While it may be a case that zero hours contracts may benefit some I have no doubt that they do not benefit the majority. Figures are pretty scant around those on zero hours contracts and still entitled to state benefits.[/p][/quote]You've just contradicted yourself. First you say you have "no doubt" they do not benefit the majority. Then you say there are no figures relating to that scenario. So how do you have "no doubt" - blind faith or do you know something the rest of us don't? The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 3

3:52pm Thu 10 Jul 14

South Stand says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
South Stand, I also remember the 1970s, three day weeks, power cuts and schools closed. Oh yes that was under Ted Heath's Tory government. The thing with history is you can use it to back up almost any claim you wish to make!
I agree with you but what is the common theme running through this? Yes, left wing union leaders calling strikes. Nothing's really changed has it.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: South Stand, I also remember the 1970s, three day weeks, power cuts and schools closed. Oh yes that was under Ted Heath's Tory government. The thing with history is you can use it to back up almost any claim you wish to make![/p][/quote]I agree with you but what is the common theme running through this? Yes, left wing union leaders calling strikes. Nothing's really changed has it. South Stand
  • Score: 3

3:53pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant?

I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your
Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you.
As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.
Yes I have!
Can you tell me where to look then as my son is looking for work.
Has all the necessary gcse's at grade c or above. 2 years at college doing a levels(results pending) and cannot find a job.
Barely getting a response let alone an interview.
Well what we were talking about were people in jobs at the moment going on strike. So those are people with experience I've lately been interviewing numerous candidates for a job in Swindon. I gave up in the end due to the poor quality. I continually get agencies contacting me regarding job vacancies. So there are plenty of jobs out there is you have the right experience.

I have no idea regarding your son's predicament. Perhaps his CV is poorly presented.

Why did we have to come up with this new term 'zero hours contract'? Working as a contractor is nothing new - I've been working with them for decades. They've always done so voluntarily due to the flexibility and potential to make more money. Not everyone thinks they have a right to a job for life.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant? I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your[/p][/quote]Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you. As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.[/p][/quote]Yes I have![/p][/quote]Can you tell me where to look then as my son is looking for work. Has all the necessary gcse's at grade c or above. 2 years at college doing a levels(results pending) and cannot find a job. Barely getting a response let alone an interview.[/p][/quote]Well what we were talking about were people in jobs at the moment going on strike. So those are people with experience I've lately been interviewing numerous candidates for a job in Swindon. I gave up in the end due to the poor quality. I continually get agencies contacting me regarding job vacancies. So there are plenty of jobs out there is you have the right experience. I have no idea regarding your son's predicament. Perhaps his CV is poorly presented. Why did we have to come up with this new term 'zero hours contract'? Working as a contractor is nothing new - I've been working with them for decades. They've always done so voluntarily due to the flexibility and potential to make more money. Not everyone thinks they have a right to a job for life. Phantom Poster
  • Score: 4

4:10pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Old Town says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
South Stand, I also remember the 1970s, three day weeks, power cuts and schools closed. Oh yes that was under Ted Heath's Tory government. The thing with history is you can use it to back up almost any claim you wish to make!
Sorry Spurs fan - you answer points you want to and completely ignore others when presumably you have no answer.....

1. Completely ignored the FACTS about the number of people who actually voted for a strike !
2. Completely ignored the facts about DC and how this is completely different from the strike ballot

The 3 day week under Ted Heath was caused by MINERS STRIKING after turning down a 16.5% pay rise !!!!

Sheesh - you would think the country would have learned by now - unions - devisive, dangerous and deviant -- OUTLAW THEM !!!!

Are we
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: South Stand, I also remember the 1970s, three day weeks, power cuts and schools closed. Oh yes that was under Ted Heath's Tory government. The thing with history is you can use it to back up almost any claim you wish to make![/p][/quote]Sorry Spurs fan - you answer points you want to and completely ignore others when presumably you have no answer..... 1. Completely ignored the FACTS about the number of people who actually voted for a strike ! 2. Completely ignored the facts about DC and how this is completely different from the strike ballot The 3 day week under Ted Heath was caused by MINERS STRIKING after turning down a 16.5% pay rise !!!! Sheesh - you would think the country would have learned by now - unions - devisive, dangerous and deviant -- OUTLAW THEM !!!! Are we Old Town
  • Score: 2

4:12pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Artist - If you read my post I said figures around those on zero hours contract and able to claim state benefits are scant. not none existent as you seem to infer. This does not contradict my saying that I have no doubt that many on zero hours are living lives of uncertainty as it has been widely reported in both the left and right wing media that many are being forced into these jobs at the risk of losing JSA etc. Mr Clegane, seeing as you ask if I could wave a magic wand I would have a socialist party in power. However, that will not happen as the Labour party of today are little more than a lighter blue version of the Tories. Finally, Southstand I would argue that a great deal has changed since the 1970s. Left wing unions like you describe are a thing of the past. We live in times when the right of centre political bias has become the norm. Undoubtedly the 2010s are a lot less politically volatile and the gap between all three main parties has narrowed.
Artist - If you read my post I said figures around those on zero hours contract and able to claim state benefits are scant. not none existent as you seem to infer. This does not contradict my saying that I have no doubt that many on zero hours are living lives of uncertainty as it has been widely reported in both the left and right wing media that many are being forced into these jobs at the risk of losing JSA etc. Mr Clegane, seeing as you ask if I could wave a magic wand I would have a socialist party in power. However, that will not happen as the Labour party of today are little more than a lighter blue version of the Tories. Finally, Southstand I would argue that a great deal has changed since the 1970s. Left wing unions like you describe are a thing of the past. We live in times when the right of centre political bias has become the norm. Undoubtedly the 2010s are a lot less politically volatile and the gap between all three main parties has narrowed. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 0

4:18pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Old Town, anyone with any political nous will answer how you have described, do you not watch question time? Answer me how Unions are deviant, when you appear to support a party that has been the home of deviants for many years. Does Leon Brittan and the missing files ring a bell!
Old Town, anyone with any political nous will answer how you have described, do you not watch question time? Answer me how Unions are deviant, when you appear to support a party that has been the home of deviants for many years. Does Leon Brittan and the missing files ring a bell! Spurs Fan
  • Score: -1

4:19pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Artist - If you read my post I said figures around those on zero hours contract and able to claim state benefits are scant. not none existent as you seem to infer. This does not contradict my saying that I have no doubt that many on zero hours are living lives of uncertainty as it has been widely reported in both the left and right wing media that many are being forced into these jobs at the risk of losing JSA etc. Mr Clegane, seeing as you ask if I could wave a magic wand I would have a socialist party in power. However, that will not happen as the Labour party of today are little more than a lighter blue version of the Tories. Finally, Southstand I would argue that a great deal has changed since the 1970s. Left wing unions like you describe are a thing of the past. We live in times when the right of centre political bias has become the norm. Undoubtedly the 2010s are a lot less politically volatile and the gap between all three main parties has narrowed.
Thanks for answering.

Your answer highlights what I already thought. Those who say things like, 'Labour are just Tory-lite, not even socialists' show their true colours, because the current Tory government would be considered wildly socialist in many other countries - and they are: 53% of people in the country now receive more from the state than they contribute.

That horrendous ratio wouldn't even fly under a communist system!
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Artist - If you read my post I said figures around those on zero hours contract and able to claim state benefits are scant. not none existent as you seem to infer. This does not contradict my saying that I have no doubt that many on zero hours are living lives of uncertainty as it has been widely reported in both the left and right wing media that many are being forced into these jobs at the risk of losing JSA etc. Mr Clegane, seeing as you ask if I could wave a magic wand I would have a socialist party in power. However, that will not happen as the Labour party of today are little more than a lighter blue version of the Tories. Finally, Southstand I would argue that a great deal has changed since the 1970s. Left wing unions like you describe are a thing of the past. We live in times when the right of centre political bias has become the norm. Undoubtedly the 2010s are a lot less politically volatile and the gap between all three main parties has narrowed.[/p][/quote]Thanks for answering. Your answer highlights what I already thought. Those who say things like, 'Labour are just Tory-lite, not even socialists' show their true colours, because the current Tory government would be considered wildly socialist in many other countries - and they are: 53% of people in the country now receive more from the state than they contribute. That horrendous ratio wouldn't even fly under a communist system! Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 3

4:21pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Old Town, anyone with any political nous will answer how you have described, do you not watch question time? Answer me how Unions are deviant, when you appear to support a party that has been the home of deviants for many years. Does Leon Brittan and the missing files ring a bell!
More Labour MPs, some on the very socialist fringe of the party, went to prison for expenses scandals than all the other parties combined.

Nasty business, unpleasant people.

But then, that's the Left, no matter how 'caring' they may seek to portray themselves while merrily spending everyone else's money that they've stolen.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Old Town, anyone with any political nous will answer how you have described, do you not watch question time? Answer me how Unions are deviant, when you appear to support a party that has been the home of deviants for many years. Does Leon Brittan and the missing files ring a bell![/p][/quote]More Labour MPs, some on the very socialist fringe of the party, went to prison for expenses scandals than all the other parties combined. Nasty business, unpleasant people. But then, that's the Left, no matter how 'caring' they may seek to portray themselves while merrily spending everyone else's money that they've stolen. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 2

4:30pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Mr Clegane, I think old town was speaking about deviancy not fiddling expenses? While fiddling the public purse is undoubtedly wrong, I would argue child abuse is in a different league. Labour MPs end up in prison for their crimes, Tory MPs it would appear get away with it, according to Norman Tebbitt.
Mr Clegane, I think old town was speaking about deviancy not fiddling expenses? While fiddling the public purse is undoubtedly wrong, I would argue child abuse is in a different league. Labour MPs end up in prison for their crimes, Tory MPs it would appear get away with it, according to Norman Tebbitt. Spurs Fan
  • Score: 0

4:34pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Old Town says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Old Town, anyone with any political nous will answer how you have described, do you not watch question time? Answer me how Unions are deviant, when you appear to support a party that has been the home of deviants for many years. Does Leon Brittan and the missing files ring a bell!
Ignoring the questions as you have no answer to them and trying to score points by shifting the debate - classic !

I really think you suggesting the conservative party are "the home of deviants" says pretty much everything about you really......

When I said the Unions are Deviant -- I mean this (a definition of Deviant by the way) - "Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society" -- I back this up with my earlier post -- A SMALL MINORITY of members voted for strike action -- yet the unions decided to go ahead anyway - THIS IS DEVIANT BEHAVIOUR !

Hopefully you might actually start to understand now......
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Old Town, anyone with any political nous will answer how you have described, do you not watch question time? Answer me how Unions are deviant, when you appear to support a party that has been the home of deviants for many years. Does Leon Brittan and the missing files ring a bell![/p][/quote]Ignoring the questions as you have no answer to them and trying to score points by shifting the debate - classic ! I really think you suggesting the conservative party are "the home of deviants" says pretty much everything about you really...... When I said the Unions are Deviant -- I mean this (a definition of Deviant by the way) - "Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society" -- I back this up with my earlier post -- A SMALL MINORITY of members voted for strike action -- yet the unions decided to go ahead anyway - THIS IS DEVIANT BEHAVIOUR ! Hopefully you might actually start to understand now...... Old Town
  • Score: 2

4:36pm Thu 10 Jul 14

South Stand says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Mr Clegane, I think old town was speaking about deviancy not fiddling expenses? While fiddling the public purse is undoubtedly wrong, I would argue child abuse is in a different league. Labour MPs end up in prison for their crimes, Tory MPs it would appear get away with it, according to Norman Tebbitt.
I think you need to look up exactly what Tebbit said.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Mr Clegane, I think old town was speaking about deviancy not fiddling expenses? While fiddling the public purse is undoubtedly wrong, I would argue child abuse is in a different league. Labour MPs end up in prison for their crimes, Tory MPs it would appear get away with it, according to Norman Tebbitt.[/p][/quote]I think you need to look up exactly what Tebbit said. South Stand
  • Score: 1

4:38pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

Tebbitt on Sunday said "there was probably an unconscious cover up" In other words it was hidden so as to protect careers and the Tory party.
Tebbitt on Sunday said "there was probably an unconscious cover up" In other words it was hidden so as to protect careers and the Tory party. Spurs Fan
  • Score: -3

4:44pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Sandor Clegane says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Mr Clegane, I think old town was speaking about deviancy not fiddling expenses? While fiddling the public purse is undoubtedly wrong, I would argue child abuse is in a different league. Labour MPs end up in prison for their crimes, Tory MPs it would appear get away with it, according to Norman Tebbitt.
Fiddling expenses from public money, while all the time standing as a socialist, is about as deviant as it gets!

The expenses scandal came to light under the last Labour government. I very much doubt, therefore, that Tory MPs would have 'got away with it' had the CPS had as much evidence against them as they clearly had against all the Labour MPs that ended up in prison.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Mr Clegane, I think old town was speaking about deviancy not fiddling expenses? While fiddling the public purse is undoubtedly wrong, I would argue child abuse is in a different league. Labour MPs end up in prison for their crimes, Tory MPs it would appear get away with it, according to Norman Tebbitt.[/p][/quote]Fiddling expenses from public money, while all the time standing as a socialist, is about as deviant as it gets! The expenses scandal came to light under the last Labour government. I very much doubt, therefore, that Tory MPs would have 'got away with it' had the CPS had as much evidence against them as they clearly had against all the Labour MPs that ended up in prison. Sandor Clegane
  • Score: 2

4:45pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Artist - If you read my post I said figures around those on zero hours contract and able to claim state benefits are scant. not none existent as you seem to infer. This does not contradict my saying that I have no doubt that many on zero hours are living lives of uncertainty as it has been widely reported in both the left and right wing media that many are being forced into these jobs at the risk of losing JSA etc. Mr Clegane, seeing as you ask if I could wave a magic wand I would have a socialist party in power. However, that will not happen as the Labour party of today are little more than a lighter blue version of the Tories. Finally, Southstand I would argue that a great deal has changed since the 1970s. Left wing unions like you describe are a thing of the past. We live in times when the right of centre political bias has become the norm. Undoubtedly the 2010s are a lot less politically volatile and the gap between all three main parties has narrowed.
scant
skant/
adjective
1.
barely sufficient or adequate.

Could you point me in the direction of those scant figures please? One figure will do - how many people on zero hour contracts also claim unemployment benefits? I'm just not sure how you can have "no doubt" given the ONS can't even seem to agree with itself on how many people are actually on these contracts with figures ranging from 250,000 up to 1.4 million, I strongly doubt any such official figures exist, at least not in the public domain.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Artist - If you read my post I said figures around those on zero hours contract and able to claim state benefits are scant. not none existent as you seem to infer. This does not contradict my saying that I have no doubt that many on zero hours are living lives of uncertainty as it has been widely reported in both the left and right wing media that many are being forced into these jobs at the risk of losing JSA etc. Mr Clegane, seeing as you ask if I could wave a magic wand I would have a socialist party in power. However, that will not happen as the Labour party of today are little more than a lighter blue version of the Tories. Finally, Southstand I would argue that a great deal has changed since the 1970s. Left wing unions like you describe are a thing of the past. We live in times when the right of centre political bias has become the norm. Undoubtedly the 2010s are a lot less politically volatile and the gap between all three main parties has narrowed.[/p][/quote]scant skant/ adjective 1. barely sufficient or adequate. Could you point me in the direction of those scant figures please? One figure will do - how many people on zero hour contracts also claim unemployment benefits? I'm just not sure how you can have "no doubt" given the ONS can't even seem to agree with itself on how many people are actually on these contracts with figures ranging from 250,000 up to 1.4 million, I strongly doubt any such official figures exist, at least not in the public domain. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 9

4:48pm Thu 10 Jul 14

South Stand says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Tebbitt on Sunday said "there was probably an unconscious cover up" In other words it was hidden so as to protect careers and the Tory party.
Blair said "There are WMD's in IRAQ".
My point being that if you believe all that a politician says then you are in a sorry state.
Anyway, as a previous poster has said, if you can turn a story about strikes into one about deviant MPs then yes, you have seriously lost the argument.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Tebbitt on Sunday said "there was probably an unconscious cover up" In other words it was hidden so as to protect careers and the Tory party.[/p][/quote]Blair said "There are WMD's in IRAQ". My point being that if you believe all that a politician says then you are in a sorry state. Anyway, as a previous poster has said, if you can turn a story about strikes into one about deviant MPs then yes, you have seriously lost the argument. South Stand
  • Score: 2

4:52pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Robh says...

It is like a march on here Left, Right, Left, Right. Having worked in both I have various views on who works for a living and who loafs along just to get a wage. It is six of one ad half a dozen of the other. Look round your place of work and have an honest appraisal of who is worth their wages and who is a skiver. I think many would be surprised of the results.
It is like a march on here Left, Right, Left, Right. Having worked in both I have various views on who works for a living and who loafs along just to get a wage. It is six of one ad half a dozen of the other. Look round your place of work and have an honest appraisal of who is worth their wages and who is a skiver. I think many would be surprised of the results. Robh
  • Score: 17

4:57pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Robh says...

We have just had a message from Green Waste to say our waste won't be collected for two weeks but we can take it to the recycling centre. how do I tow my green bin with my mobility scooter?
We have just had a message from Green Waste to say our waste won't be collected for two weeks but we can take it to the recycling centre. how do I tow my green bin with my mobility scooter? Robh
  • Score: 9

5:10pm Thu 10 Jul 14

EmmBee says...

Robh wrote:
We have just had a message from Green Waste to say our waste won't be collected for two weeks but we can take it to the recycling centre. how do I tow my green bin with my mobility scooter?
Do it Rob - and make sure the Adver is there for a photo op.
[quote][p][bold]Robh[/bold] wrote: We have just had a message from Green Waste to say our waste won't be collected for two weeks but we can take it to the recycling centre. how do I tow my green bin with my mobility scooter?[/p][/quote]Do it Rob - and make sure the Adver is there for a photo op. EmmBee
  • Score: 16

5:29pm Thu 10 Jul 14

beach1e says...

im leaving my full waste bin out until it is picked up, if it gets knocked over and the rubbish ends up on the road..so be it, its the council who should have plans in place to make sure the bins were picked up..when royal mail go on strike all the managers do the work thats not covered . altho to be fair publice employees dont do a lot when they are at work so it is asking a lot....Swindon streets will be stinking very soon.
im leaving my full waste bin out until it is picked up, if it gets knocked over and the rubbish ends up on the road..so be it, its the council who should have plans in place to make sure the bins were picked up..when royal mail go on strike all the managers do the work thats not covered . altho to be fair publice employees dont do a lot when they are at work so it is asking a lot....Swindon streets will be stinking very soon. beach1e
  • Score: 19

5:37pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

South Stand wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant?

I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your
Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you.
As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.
You're correct about the 70's.........a truly dreadful period with a Labour government in office. Remember that do you? Culminating in the 'winter of discontent'. Bins not emptied for weeks, bodies not buried for weeks. The streets piled 20' high with rubbish etc.
Yes, I remember the terrible 70's under a Labour government.
I was a toddler then so no I do not. I do remember Thatcher's government though. Bad times.
[quote][p][bold]South Stand[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant? I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your[/p][/quote]Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you. As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.[/p][/quote]You're correct about the 70's.........a truly dreadful period with a Labour government in office. Remember that do you? Culminating in the 'winter of discontent'. Bins not emptied for weeks, bodies not buried for weeks. The streets piled 20' high with rubbish etc. Yes, I remember the terrible 70's under a Labour government.[/p][/quote]I was a toddler then so no I do not. I do remember Thatcher's government though. Bad times. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -21

6:03pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Spurs Fan says...

The artist known as, I never said those on zero hours contract could claim unemployment benefit, you made that up I'm afraid. I did say that they could claim state benefits and evidence around how many on zero hours is scant to back this up. However if you work so few hours that you cannot keep yourself or your family you could claim benefits such as Income support, Housing Benefit or Working Tax credits. It is estimated that there are 14.1 million families were at least one member works and yet they are still in receipt of benefits. Figures from the Guardian of 6/04/13.

Old town, I did not bring up deviancy in this debate, I believe you did. Therefore, I reiterate A Conservative MP bought to the attention of a Conservative Home Secretary the evidence of what most sane people would acknowledge as just about the most deviant behaviour of several high ranking members of the parliament. This evidence/file was then lost, mislaid, destroyed. Another high ranking Conservative has stated (just this week) that there was probably an unconscious cover up. You say that trade unions are deviant, I say deviancy is more prevalent in Westminster. Your claim that more Labour MPs went to prison for fiddling expenses proves what? More Conservative peers as opposed to Labour peers were found guilty of fiddling as a counter statistic. All this proves is many of those who claim to represent us are cheats no matter what party they represent.
The artist known as, I never said those on zero hours contract could claim unemployment benefit, you made that up I'm afraid. I did say that they could claim state benefits and evidence around how many on zero hours is scant to back this up. However if you work so few hours that you cannot keep yourself or your family you could claim benefits such as Income support, Housing Benefit or Working Tax credits. It is estimated that there are 14.1 million families were at least one member works and yet they are still in receipt of benefits. Figures from the Guardian of 6/04/13. Old town, I did not bring up deviancy in this debate, I believe you did. Therefore, I reiterate A Conservative MP bought to the attention of a Conservative Home Secretary the evidence of what most sane people would acknowledge as just about the most deviant behaviour of several high ranking members of the parliament. This evidence/file was then lost, mislaid, destroyed. Another high ranking Conservative has stated (just this week) that there was probably an unconscious cover up. You say that trade unions are deviant, I say deviancy is more prevalent in Westminster. Your claim that more Labour MPs went to prison for fiddling expenses proves what? More Conservative peers as opposed to Labour peers were found guilty of fiddling as a counter statistic. All this proves is many of those who claim to represent us are cheats no matter what party they represent. Spurs Fan
  • Score: -27

9:15pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Jockster says...

The Witch wrote:
Spurs Fan wrote:
The Witch, public sector workers fought and died in both world wars, so your point is? When did we become a nation that said the working people should just be happy they have a job no matter the pay and conditions? Should we just bow down down to the bosses and say yes sir no sir? Most public sector workers have had no wage increases in four years. Their work loads in many cases have gone through the roof because of this government's determination to take away public sector jobs and drive workers into the private sector. Who would be an overworked social worker managing more case work than ever, a lowly paid school cleaner, a nurse in the NHS? I know I tend to be in a small minority on this site, but the right wingers on here make me sick with their simplistic rhetoric. What ever happened to solidarity and supporting your fellow workers? We have become a nation of sod you jacks I'm alright. I expect this post to have a minus ten thumbs down within the hour!
For your information Spurs Fan I have worked in both the public and the private sector and I know which one is the cushy number. I just object to strikers using the Cenotaph for a meeting, it was erected to honour the dead not to be a centre for strikers to air their issues. I agree with Phantom Poster don't like the job or conditions then get out and find something you do like but you'll find its a much tougher world working in the private sector.
PS And please don't assume that you know how I vote, I don't refer to you as a left-wing commie!!
My last post before taking early retirement was working locally in the public sector. I too have sampled both sides of the equation and without a shadow of a doubt the cushy number was in the public domain. Straight from 5 weeks hols to 6 and the 5 weeks had only accrued through length of service, then add on priv, flexi & bank hols and a bloody good pension and hey presto happy days. The down side? You get to see the enormous waste of taxpayers money from decisions made by mindless buffoons who if they worked in the private sector wouldn't last 5 minutes such is their incompetence.
In my case push came to shove, I couldn't tolerate the shambles unravelling before me - said so and bingo it's Spanish Archer time! El Bow! Ironically thanks to joining the PCS 6 months before I left because I could see it was only a matter of time before the solids collided with the air con and by so doing secured a better settlement.
So I think there is a place for unions to stop workers getting shafted but not convinced striking brings any noticeable remedies. The days of Scargill and co. and even the McCluskey clown are long gone because the general public are simply not prepared these days to be held to ransom. Even Milliband is acutely embarrassed by having to accept their funding but hasn't got the balls to tell them to get lost!
[quote][p][bold]The Witch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The Witch, public sector workers fought and died in both world wars, so your point is? When did we become a nation that said the working people should just be happy they have a job no matter the pay and conditions? Should we just bow down down to the bosses and say yes sir no sir? Most public sector workers have had no wage increases in four years. Their work loads in many cases have gone through the roof because of this government's determination to take away public sector jobs and drive workers into the private sector. Who would be an overworked social worker managing more case work than ever, a lowly paid school cleaner, a nurse in the NHS? I know I tend to be in a small minority on this site, but the right wingers on here make me sick with their simplistic rhetoric. What ever happened to solidarity and supporting your fellow workers? We have become a nation of sod you jacks I'm alright. I expect this post to have a minus ten thumbs down within the hour![/p][/quote]For your information Spurs Fan I have worked in both the public and the private sector and I know which one is the cushy number. I just object to strikers using the Cenotaph for a meeting, it was erected to honour the dead not to be a centre for strikers to air their issues. I agree with Phantom Poster don't like the job or conditions then get out and find something you do like but you'll find its a much tougher world working in the private sector. PS And please don't assume that you know how I vote, I don't refer to you as a left-wing commie!![/p][/quote]My last post before taking early retirement was working locally in the public sector. I too have sampled both sides of the equation and without a shadow of a doubt the cushy number was in the public domain. Straight from 5 weeks hols to 6 and the 5 weeks had only accrued through length of service, then add on priv, flexi & bank hols and a bloody good pension and hey presto happy days. The down side? You get to see the enormous waste of taxpayers money from decisions made by mindless buffoons who if they worked in the private sector wouldn't last 5 minutes such is their incompetence. In my case push came to shove, I couldn't tolerate the shambles unravelling before me - said so and bingo it's Spanish Archer time! El Bow! Ironically thanks to joining the PCS 6 months before I left because I could see it was only a matter of time before the solids collided with the air con and by so doing secured a better settlement. So I think there is a place for unions to stop workers getting shafted but not convinced striking brings any noticeable remedies. The days of Scargill and co. and even the McCluskey clown are long gone because the general public are simply not prepared these days to be held to ransom. Even Milliband is acutely embarrassed by having to accept their funding but hasn't got the balls to tell them to get lost! The Jockster
  • Score: 10

9:29pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

Crazy play there. Super fast fingers.
Crazy play there. Super fast fingers. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -9

10:02pm Thu 10 Jul 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
The artist known as, I never said those on zero hours contract could claim unemployment benefit, you made that up I'm afraid. I did say that they could claim state benefits and evidence around how many on zero hours is scant to back this up. However if you work so few hours that you cannot keep yourself or your family you could claim benefits such as Income support, Housing Benefit or Working Tax credits. It is estimated that there are 14.1 million families were at least one member works and yet they are still in receipt of benefits. Figures from the Guardian of 6/04/13.

Old town, I did not bring up deviancy in this debate, I believe you did. Therefore, I reiterate A Conservative MP bought to the attention of a Conservative Home Secretary the evidence of what most sane people would acknowledge as just about the most deviant behaviour of several high ranking members of the parliament. This evidence/file was then lost, mislaid, destroyed. Another high ranking Conservative has stated (just this week) that there was probably an unconscious cover up. You say that trade unions are deviant, I say deviancy is more prevalent in Westminster. Your claim that more Labour MPs went to prison for fiddling expenses proves what? More Conservative peers as opposed to Labour peers were found guilty of fiddling as a counter statistic. All this proves is many of those who claim to represent us are cheats no matter what party they represent.
Apologies, for "unemployment benefits" I did in fact mean "state benefits". Slip of the fingers, I was probably thinking about something else at the time! Question is the same though. How many people on zero hours contracts are also in receipt of state benefits? It's definitely not 600,000. Or 250,000, or 1.4 million. Or whatever other pie in the sky figure the ONS comes out with next.

As an aside, zero hour contracts can be quite an efficient way of avoiding paying tax.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The artist known as, I never said those on zero hours contract could claim unemployment benefit, you made that up I'm afraid. I did say that they could claim state benefits and evidence around how many on zero hours is scant to back this up. However if you work so few hours that you cannot keep yourself or your family you could claim benefits such as Income support, Housing Benefit or Working Tax credits. It is estimated that there are 14.1 million families were at least one member works and yet they are still in receipt of benefits. Figures from the Guardian of 6/04/13. Old town, I did not bring up deviancy in this debate, I believe you did. Therefore, I reiterate A Conservative MP bought to the attention of a Conservative Home Secretary the evidence of what most sane people would acknowledge as just about the most deviant behaviour of several high ranking members of the parliament. This evidence/file was then lost, mislaid, destroyed. Another high ranking Conservative has stated (just this week) that there was probably an unconscious cover up. You say that trade unions are deviant, I say deviancy is more prevalent in Westminster. Your claim that more Labour MPs went to prison for fiddling expenses proves what? More Conservative peers as opposed to Labour peers were found guilty of fiddling as a counter statistic. All this proves is many of those who claim to represent us are cheats no matter what party they represent.[/p][/quote]Apologies, for "unemployment benefits" I did in fact mean "state benefits". Slip of the fingers, I was probably thinking about something else at the time! Question is the same though. How many people on zero hours contracts are also in receipt of state benefits? It's definitely not 600,000. Or 250,000, or 1.4 million. Or whatever other pie in the sky figure the ONS comes out with next. As an aside, zero hour contracts can be quite an efficient way of avoiding paying tax. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 0

10:07pm Thu 10 Jul 14

therock4u says...

You only have to see some of the new road layouts to how bored most are.
Whalebridge being a prime example, and that Whichelstow junction at the bottom of croft road. What a joke those junctions are.
You only have to see some of the new road layouts to how bored most are. Whalebridge being a prime example, and that Whichelstow junction at the bottom of croft road. What a joke those junctions are. therock4u
  • Score: 0

10:51pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Tegwen2011 says...

I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story.
I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year.
My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks".
Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs!
Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks.
Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day!

I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.
I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story. I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year. My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks". Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs! Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks. Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day! I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect. Tegwen2011
  • Score: -11

11:11pm Thu 10 Jul 14

South Stand says...

Tegwen2011 wrote:
I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story.
I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year.
My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks".
Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs!
Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks.
Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day!

I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.
From your comments I assume you earn about £12000 per annum. I'm sorry but I can't believe some of your comments. You're saying that your working day is 14+ hours. That is about 70 hours per week. Multiply that by the minimum wage of £6.31 and you come out at a weekly wage of over £400. I did notice that you said you worked unpaid overtime. For someone who's probably on the minimum wage to be asked to work unpaid overtime is extremely unusual.
[quote][p][bold]Tegwen2011[/bold] wrote: I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story. I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year. My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks". Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs! Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks. Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day! I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.[/p][/quote]From your comments I assume you earn about £12000 per annum. I'm sorry but I can't believe some of your comments. You're saying that your working day is 14+ hours. That is about 70 hours per week. Multiply that by the minimum wage of £6.31 and you come out at a weekly wage of over £400. I did notice that you said you worked unpaid overtime. For someone who's probably on the minimum wage to be asked to work unpaid overtime is extremely unusual. South Stand
  • Score: 3

11:22pm Thu 10 Jul 14

lisers says...

BRY328 wrote:
beach1e wrote:
What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them
Brilliant idea. As for the fire dept - a vital service, how do they strike (again) appear on tv...and remain with a serious look without laughing. I wish my job allowed me to 'sit around' without actually doing my "job" for up to 8 straight days. If not happy/bored after time move on and let someone else have a go.
aren't you forgetting they put their life on the line every time they get a call out , people like that deserve every penny they get .I couldn't do it could you ?
[quote][p][bold]BRY328[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]beach1e[/bold] wrote: What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them[/p][/quote]Brilliant idea. As for the fire dept - a vital service, how do they strike (again) appear on tv...and remain with a serious look without laughing. I wish my job allowed me to 'sit around' without actually doing my "job" for up to 8 straight days. If not happy/bored after time move on and let someone else have a go.[/p][/quote]aren't you forgetting they put their life on the line every time they get a call out , people like that deserve every penny they get .I couldn't do it could you ? lisers
  • Score: -6

1:08am Fri 11 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

Tegwen2011 wrote:
I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story.
I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year.
My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks".
Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs!
Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks.
Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day!

I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.
You say:
" If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year".

So why don't you? There you are - in an instance I have solved your problem!

You say:

"Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! "

MA is "Master of ARTS" - maybe if you had a Bsc (Bachelor of SCIENCE) you might be more employable.

There are plenty of jobs out there for educated graduates who have a skill which employees might need. I spent ages interviewing people in Swindon for a technical job and gave up - such was the poor quality of people interviewed. We very reluctantly had to admit defeat and let our Eastern European office find someone. for us - and they were **** hot!
[quote][p][bold]Tegwen2011[/bold] wrote: I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story. I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year. My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks". Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs! Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks. Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day! I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.[/p][/quote]You say: " If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year". So why don't you? There you are - in an instance I have solved your problem! You say: "Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! " MA is "Master of ARTS" - maybe if you had a Bsc (Bachelor of SCIENCE) you might be more employable. There are plenty of jobs out there for educated graduates who have a skill which employees might need. I spent ages interviewing people in Swindon for a technical job and gave up - such was the poor quality of people interviewed. We very reluctantly had to admit defeat and let our Eastern European office find someone. for us - and they were **** hot! Phantom Poster
  • Score: -3

1:17am Fri 11 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

lisers wrote:
BRY328 wrote:
beach1e wrote:
What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them
Brilliant idea. As for the fire dept - a vital service, how do they strike (again) appear on tv...and remain with a serious look without laughing. I wish my job allowed me to 'sit around' without actually doing my "job" for up to 8 straight days. If not happy/bored after time move on and let someone else have a go.
aren't you forgetting they put their life on the line every time they get a call out , people like that deserve every penny they get .I couldn't do it could you ?
They DON'T put their life on the line every time they get a call out. These are not firemen being called out in New York to deal with the Twin Towers on a daily basis, for gods sake !

They spend most of their day sitting around playing pool and then might occasionally have to put out a fire in a house somewhere in Swindon by pointing their water hoses at it!
[quote][p][bold]lisers[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BRY328[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]beach1e[/bold] wrote: What the strikers should do on their picket lines is hold up placards showing their wages, their holidays, their protected pensions, the actual hours they work , how often they are off sick,bonuses, and all other extras they get..and then see if anyone has sympathy with them[/p][/quote]Brilliant idea. As for the fire dept - a vital service, how do they strike (again) appear on tv...and remain with a serious look without laughing. I wish my job allowed me to 'sit around' without actually doing my "job" for up to 8 straight days. If not happy/bored after time move on and let someone else have a go.[/p][/quote]aren't you forgetting they put their life on the line every time they get a call out , people like that deserve every penny they get .I couldn't do it could you ?[/p][/quote]They DON'T put their life on the line every time they get a call out. These are not firemen being called out in New York to deal with the Twin Towers on a daily basis, for gods sake ! They spend most of their day sitting around playing pool and then might occasionally have to put out a fire in a house somewhere in Swindon by pointing their water hoses at it! Phantom Poster
  • Score: 27

1:21am Fri 11 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

South Stand wrote:
Tegwen2011 wrote:
I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story.
I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year.
My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks".
Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs!
Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks.
Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day!

I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.
From your comments I assume you earn about £12000 per annum. I'm sorry but I can't believe some of your comments. You're saying that your working day is 14+ hours. That is about 70 hours per week. Multiply that by the minimum wage of £6.31 and you come out at a weekly wage of over £400. I did notice that you said you worked unpaid overtime. For someone who's probably on the minimum wage to be asked to work unpaid overtime is extremely unusual.
Can't you just sniff the union ****!
[quote][p][bold]South Stand[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tegwen2011[/bold] wrote: I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story. I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year. My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks". Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs! Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks. Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day! I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.[/p][/quote]From your comments I assume you earn about £12000 per annum. I'm sorry but I can't believe some of your comments. You're saying that your working day is 14+ hours. That is about 70 hours per week. Multiply that by the minimum wage of £6.31 and you come out at a weekly wage of over £400. I did notice that you said you worked unpaid overtime. For someone who's probably on the minimum wage to be asked to work unpaid overtime is extremely unusual.[/p][/quote]Can't you just sniff the union ****! Phantom Poster
  • Score: 2

1:45am Fri 11 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

I just so love the "Tegwen2011" post:

"I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others"

Isn't it amazing how selfless the people who go on strike are!

Well, I went to work today not simply for myself, but because I had an obligation to deliver to our customer a product which they paid for. In that way my company remains solvent and can afford to pay taxes to keep council workers in their jobs!
I just so love the "Tegwen2011" post: "I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others" Isn't it amazing how selfless the people who go on strike are! Well, I went to work today not simply for myself, but because I had an obligation to deliver to our customer a product which they paid for. In that way my company remains solvent and can afford to pay taxes to keep council workers in their jobs! Phantom Poster
  • Score: 1

9:08am Fri 11 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

Tegwen2011 wrote:
I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story.
I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year.
My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks".
Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs!
Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks.
Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day!

I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.
The down voting of this honest post says it all.
It doesn't matter what people say. Their posts regardless of the content will be targeted if it doesn't fit others warped, biggoted views. They won't ever budge despite evidence to counter them.
[quote][p][bold]Tegwen2011[/bold] wrote: I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story. I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year. My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks". Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs! Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks. Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day! I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.[/p][/quote]The down voting of this honest post says it all. It doesn't matter what people say. Their posts regardless of the content will be targeted if it doesn't fit others warped, biggoted views. They won't ever budge despite evidence to counter them. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -21

10:08am Fri 11 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

How on earth do you know it's an 'honest' post?

So anyone who disagrees with you has a 'warped and bigoted view'? Look at yourself in the mirror sometime!

Why don't you tell us all what posts we are allowed to down-vote? It will make our lives so much easier and we won't have to put up with you whinging about it post after post! Oh I forgot + it doesn't bother yuu, you just laugh about it :-)
How on earth do you know it's an 'honest' post? So anyone who disagrees with you has a 'warped and bigoted view'? Look at yourself in the mirror sometime! Why don't you tell us all what posts we are allowed to down-vote? It will make our lives so much easier and we won't have to put up with you whinging about it post after post! Oh I forgot + it doesn't bother yuu, you just laugh about it :-) Phantom Poster
  • Score: 2

10:45am Fri 11 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

Phantom Poster wrote:
How on earth do you know it's an 'honest' post?

So anyone who disagrees with you has a 'warped and bigoted view'? Look at yourself in the mirror sometime!

Why don't you tell us all what posts we are allowed to down-vote? It will make our lives so much easier and we won't have to put up with you whinging about it post after post! Oh I forgot + it doesn't bother yuu, you just laugh about it :-)
Down vote any post you like.
I have an opinion and you have yours. I'll leave it at that. You regularly miss my point and wrongly assume, frankly I cannot be bothered to keep correcting it. Enjoy this beautiful day sir.
[quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: How on earth do you know it's an 'honest' post? So anyone who disagrees with you has a 'warped and bigoted view'? Look at yourself in the mirror sometime! Why don't you tell us all what posts we are allowed to down-vote? It will make our lives so much easier and we won't have to put up with you whinging about it post after post! Oh I forgot + it doesn't bother yuu, you just laugh about it :-)[/p][/quote]Down vote any post you like. I have an opinion and you have yours. I'll leave it at that. You regularly miss my point and wrongly assume, frankly I cannot be bothered to keep correcting it. Enjoy this beautiful day sir. Davey Gravey
  • Score: 0

12:13pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
It's good to see a few different points of view being expressed on the Adver site for a change. Usually the vocal right wing hold sway on here, so bravo to those who have not swallowed the life is so much harder in the private sector, all of those that work in the public sector are wasters and don't know how cushy they have it BS. Those on strike today have broken no laws, they have acted democratically and because of this they are vilified in the right wing press . DC is promising more draconian legislation if the Tories win next time. Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. It's a pity we cannot apply the same rules to general elections as we would not have to put up with the present government.
Wouldnt that be a thing....of course would never happen. Bearing in mind nobody voted for current government.

All the shouts to privatise.....What has been improved by privatisation?
Other than lining certain pockets.

No pay rise in 4 years?
You mean the same as almost everyone else? Other than our betters and masters of course, MP`s and the like have seen pay increased in the same time frame so I can understand why others are looking for a rise.
Mr Osbourne has stated that the country is in recovery so why shouldnt people ask for a rise? Or is it just those at the top? Or is it a lie?

All those who are stating that there are plenty of others who will do the job for the money on offer.....Seems like many of the same people complained about foreigners "taking our jobs" are saying that people should be grateful for a job that has not kept pace with costs of living.

Someone made an excellent point earlier. If Swindon is a conservative town when so many on strike?
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: It's good to see a few different points of view being expressed on the Adver site for a change. Usually the vocal right wing hold sway on here, so bravo to those who have not swallowed the life is so much harder in the private sector, all of those that work in the public sector are wasters and don't know how cushy they have it BS. Those on strike today have broken no laws, they have acted democratically and because of this they are vilified in the right wing press . DC is promising more draconian legislation if the Tories win next time. Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. It's a pity we cannot apply the same rules to general elections as we would not have to put up with the present government.[/p][/quote]Wouldnt that be a thing....of course would never happen. Bearing in mind nobody voted for current government. All the shouts to privatise.....What has been improved by privatisation? Other than lining certain pockets. No pay rise in 4 years? You mean the same as almost everyone else? Other than our betters and masters of course, MP`s and the like have seen pay increased in the same time frame so I can understand why others are looking for a rise. Mr Osbourne has stated that the country is in recovery so why shouldnt people ask for a rise? Or is it just those at the top? Or is it a lie? All those who are stating that there are plenty of others who will do the job for the money on offer.....Seems like many of the same people complained about foreigners "taking our jobs" are saying that people should be grateful for a job that has not kept pace with costs of living. Someone made an excellent point earlier. If Swindon is a conservative town when so many on strike? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 1

12:30pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
Spurs Fan wrote:
It's good to see a few different points of view being expressed on the Adver site for a change. Usually the vocal right wing hold sway on here, so bravo to those who have not swallowed the life is so much harder in the private sector, all of those that work in the public sector are wasters and don't know how cushy they have it BS. Those on strike today have broken no laws, they have acted democratically and because of this they are vilified in the right wing press . DC is promising more draconian legislation if the Tories win next time. Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. It's a pity we cannot apply the same rules to general elections as we would not have to put up with the present government.
Wouldnt that be a thing....of course would never happen. Bearing in mind nobody voted for current government.

All the shouts to privatise.....What has been improved by privatisation?
Other than lining certain pockets.

No pay rise in 4 years?
You mean the same as almost everyone else? Other than our betters and masters of course, MP`s and the like have seen pay increased in the same time frame so I can understand why others are looking for a rise.
Mr Osbourne has stated that the country is in recovery so why shouldnt people ask for a rise? Or is it just those at the top? Or is it a lie?

All those who are stating that there are plenty of others who will do the job for the money on offer.....Seems like many of the same people complained about foreigners "taking our jobs" are saying that people should be grateful for a job that has not kept pace with costs of living.

Someone made an excellent point earlier. If Swindon is a conservative town when so many on strike?
So what percentage of the Swindon working population was on strike?
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: It's good to see a few different points of view being expressed on the Adver site for a change. Usually the vocal right wing hold sway on here, so bravo to those who have not swallowed the life is so much harder in the private sector, all of those that work in the public sector are wasters and don't know how cushy they have it BS. Those on strike today have broken no laws, they have acted democratically and because of this they are vilified in the right wing press . DC is promising more draconian legislation if the Tories win next time. Apparently if you don't get a 50% turn out in a strike poll it will not be lawful. It's a pity we cannot apply the same rules to general elections as we would not have to put up with the present government.[/p][/quote]Wouldnt that be a thing....of course would never happen. Bearing in mind nobody voted for current government. All the shouts to privatise.....What has been improved by privatisation? Other than lining certain pockets. No pay rise in 4 years? You mean the same as almost everyone else? Other than our betters and masters of course, MP`s and the like have seen pay increased in the same time frame so I can understand why others are looking for a rise. Mr Osbourne has stated that the country is in recovery so why shouldnt people ask for a rise? Or is it just those at the top? Or is it a lie? All those who are stating that there are plenty of others who will do the job for the money on offer.....Seems like many of the same people complained about foreigners "taking our jobs" are saying that people should be grateful for a job that has not kept pace with costs of living. Someone made an excellent point earlier. If Swindon is a conservative town when so many on strike?[/p][/quote]So what percentage of the Swindon working population was on strike? Phantom Poster
  • Score: -1

12:57pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Tegwen2011 wrote:
I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story.
I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year.
My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks".
Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs!
Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks.
Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day!

I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.
The down voting of this honest post says it all.
It doesn't matter what people say. Their posts regardless of the content will be targeted if it doesn't fit others warped, biggoted views. They won't ever budge despite evidence to counter them.
Down voted? Given the comments of some on here I would be more concerned about thumbs up.
You have been on here long enough to know how this works,,,,,conservati
ve views or nothing.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tegwen2011[/bold] wrote: I work in the public sector and I was on strike today. I take issue with statements made here, and want to tell my side of the story. I have worked in my current role for 4 years and during that time have been subject to a pay freeze. Even with the 1% offer, this represents a real term pay cut of 18% since 2010. I have worked a huge amount of overtime in those 4 years as my role involves frequent late meetings, yet cannot claim any overtime pay. If I were to work this same role in the private sector, I would almost double my wage, earning £11,000 more each year. My wage is well below the average salary, and classed as within the government's low pay band. I have taken on a second job as I struggle to make the end of the month with any money left at all. I am not lazy. I get up at 5am to get to work, work hard and am subject to pressured deadlines, customer abuse and 14+ hour days with barely time to eat - just like the private sector, which I have worked in incidentally, and yes, I did last more than a "few weeks". Contrary to popular belief, cannot "vote with my feet" and get another job. 270 people applied for the last role I applied for. Despite having an MA from one of the UK`s best Universities and excellent references, there are just not that many jobs out there at the moment! I am lucky enough to rent my property from a family member on mates-rates, and there is no way I can move, I have no savings! I cannot afford to save when I also have to eat and pay bills. I do not drink or smoke. I dont eat out or go on holiday. I cannot afford a tv licence, phone line, computer or internet connection (I am writing this at my parent's house). I do not allow myself extravagance, I can only afford the basics, and I have two jobs! Redundancy does happen in the public sector, 500,000 people were made redundant last year. The rest of us fear we will be next, and have had our roles expanded with no extra pay for the extra tasks. Those in local government are the lowest paid in the public sector. To say we have well paid jobs is grossly untrue. As for the fire fighters, to hear them described as "selfish" defies belief. They risk their lives every day! I will not "hold my head in shame" for striking. I will feel the hit on my pay packet for today, and believe me I am going to find next month hard because of it. I did not "want" to strike, I felt I had no choice. I am not doing this simply for myself, but for all the others who struggle to get through the month financially, who work their backside off for no recognition or even respect.[/p][/quote]The down voting of this honest post says it all. It doesn't matter what people say. Their posts regardless of the content will be targeted if it doesn't fit others warped, biggoted views. They won't ever budge despite evidence to counter them.[/p][/quote]Down voted? Given the comments of some on here I would be more concerned about thumbs up. You have been on here long enough to know how this works,,,,,conservati ve views or nothing. Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: -17

12:59pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
Gerequois wrote:
One day, maybe people will stop with the ridiculous Tory/Labour "ner, ner, my party is better than yours" rubbish and wise-up to the fact that they are *ALL* as bad as each other - finding a way to properly reform and change our political system could be the only way to really make a difference (but those that are inclined to political activism all seem to be thoroughly occupied with the support of one or the other side of the current broken system).
Very well said!
Only choose from selections on offer....
All as corrupt and broken as the next.
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gerequois[/bold] wrote: One day, maybe people will stop with the ridiculous Tory/Labour "ner, ner, my party is better than yours" rubbish and wise-up to the fact that they are *ALL* as bad as each other - finding a way to properly reform and change our political system could be the only way to really make a difference (but those that are inclined to political activism all seem to be thoroughly occupied with the support of one or the other side of the current broken system).[/p][/quote]Very well said![/p][/quote]Only choose from selections on offer.... All as corrupt and broken as the next. Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Tegwen2011 says...

In response to those quoting my post:-

1) Which of my comments exactly do you not believe? Please do let me know so that I can explain further. I can assure you I am not a liar.

2) Perhaps I was not clear enough - I wrote that I am subjected to abuse from customers and 14+ hour days. If this was unclear, I do not work 14+ hours every day, just as I am not abused by customers every day. I often work late meetings, meaning my working day starts at 8.30am and ends around 9.30pm (13 hours). From 5pm onwards, this is classed as overtime, for which I cannot claim pay. For example, next week I have a day when I am due to start work at 8.30am, and have two back-to-back meetings after 5pm, the second of which is due to start at around 8.30pm-8.45pm. The agenda is large with some weighty items, and as much as I would like to say that I will be finishing at 9.30pm this may not be the case. (The latest meeting I ever attended saw me arriving at home well after 11pm, having had one break for lunch. Technically, under the Working Time Directive I was then entitled to an 11 hour gap before starting work again the next day, but I wasn't aware of this until several weeks later). It bears repeating that although I expect to work 13+ hours on Thursday, I will not receive pay for the work I do from 5pm onwards.

3) The 'why don't you get another job' quote...if you care to read my original post, you will see that I have already explained why this is proving difficult. There honestly are not thousands of graduate positions going begging, and with retirement age increasing, people are remaining in work longer. After graduation I spent over a year searching for jobs, during which time I was even asked to fill out application forms for unpaid voluntary positions because there were so many people who just wanted to do SOMETHING.

I have applied for 4 roles after an extensive search, one of which was filled internally, the other 3 were pulled due to 'budget constraints' (they were all 3 within the same organisation). You may say the job market is recovering, but not at this mythical rate that some imagine it to be. My brother graduated last year with a vocational degree, meaning he had the academic qualification and the experience of a 12 month work placement, and yet it took him 9 months to find a job in the so-called 'recovered' job market. (He is now on a 0 hour contract and does not know from one month to the next how long he will be employed for - he gets told on pay day whether he has a job for the next month or not. No security at all, so he has to live back home as the prospect of moving out and then becoming unemployed is always looming).

4) Someone suggested that I did the wrong degree - what a sad statement! Without people from creative backgrounds we would be less likely to have things such as museums, galleries, libraries, newspapers, magazines, books, exhibitions....less creative innovation, graphic designers, copywriters, journalists, TV producers, musicians......imagi
ne a world where everyone had a scientific background and the arts were eradicated - a little dull and uninspiring don't you think?

5) 'Can't you just sniff the union ****?' - What a response! Everything I wrote came directly from my own experience, I am not a mouth-piece for my Union. Have local government workers been subject to an 18% real-terms cut in pay since 2010? - yes, fact. Is my salary in the government's own 'low-pay' banding? Yes, fact. Please can you provide examples of what you call 'union ****' to back up your statement with evidence?

6) This was not directed at me, but I would just like to say that I believe that fire-fighters do risk their lives everyday. Risk can be defined as the potential for threat, damage, injury, loss, death etc. When a fire-fighter wakes up in the morning, they do not know what situations they will have to face during the course of their working day. Given the nature of their job, every day carries the potential for them to be subjected to serious harm or even death. I for one have a deep respect for those willing to be put in serious danger for the sake of others, and cannot understand how anyone can deem a fire-fighter as 'selfish'.
In response to those quoting my post:- 1) Which of my comments exactly do you not believe? Please do let me know so that I can explain further. I can assure you I am not a liar. 2) Perhaps I was not clear enough - I wrote that I am subjected to abuse from customers and 14+ hour days. If this was unclear, I do not work 14+ hours every day, just as I am not abused by customers every day. I often work late meetings, meaning my working day starts at 8.30am and ends around 9.30pm (13 hours). From 5pm onwards, this is classed as overtime, for which I cannot claim pay. For example, next week I have a day when I am due to start work at 8.30am, and have two back-to-back meetings after 5pm, the second of which is due to start at around 8.30pm-8.45pm. The agenda is large with some weighty items, and as much as I would like to say that I will be finishing at 9.30pm this may not be the case. (The latest meeting I ever attended saw me arriving at home well after 11pm, having had one break for lunch. Technically, under the Working Time Directive I was then entitled to an 11 hour gap before starting work again the next day, but I wasn't aware of this until several weeks later). It bears repeating that although I expect to work 13+ hours on Thursday, I will not receive pay for the work I do from 5pm onwards. 3) The 'why don't you get another job' quote...if you care to read my original post, you will see that I have already explained why this is proving difficult. There honestly are not thousands of graduate positions going begging, and with retirement age increasing, people are remaining in work longer. After graduation I spent over a year searching for jobs, during which time I was even asked to fill out application forms for unpaid voluntary positions because there were so many people who just wanted to do SOMETHING. I have applied for 4 roles after an extensive search, one of which was filled internally, the other 3 were pulled due to 'budget constraints' (they were all 3 within the same organisation). You may say the job market is recovering, but not at this mythical rate that some imagine it to be. My brother graduated last year with a vocational degree, meaning he had the academic qualification and the experience of a 12 month work placement, and yet it took him 9 months to find a job in the so-called 'recovered' job market. (He is now on a 0 hour contract and does not know from one month to the next how long he will be employed for - he gets told on pay day whether he has a job for the next month or not. No security at all, so he has to live back home as the prospect of moving out and then becoming unemployed is always looming). 4) Someone suggested that I did the wrong degree - what a sad statement! Without people from creative backgrounds we would be less likely to have things such as museums, galleries, libraries, newspapers, magazines, books, exhibitions....less creative innovation, graphic designers, copywriters, journalists, TV producers, musicians......imagi ne a world where everyone had a scientific background and the arts were eradicated - a little dull and uninspiring don't you think? 5) 'Can't you just sniff the union ****?' - What a response! Everything I wrote came directly from my own experience, I am not a mouth-piece for my Union. Have local government workers been subject to an 18% real-terms cut in pay since 2010? - yes, fact. Is my salary in the government's own 'low-pay' banding? Yes, fact. Please can you provide examples of what you call 'union ****' to back up your statement with evidence? 6) This was not directed at me, but I would just like to say that I believe that fire-fighters do risk their lives everyday. Risk can be defined as the potential for threat, damage, injury, loss, death etc. When a fire-fighter wakes up in the morning, they do not know what situations they will have to face during the course of their working day. Given the nature of their job, every day carries the potential for them to be subjected to serious harm or even death. I for one have a deep respect for those willing to be put in serious danger for the sake of others, and cannot understand how anyone can deem a fire-fighter as 'selfish'. Tegwen2011
  • Score: 5

3:55pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Davey Gravey says...

@tegwen
Although you explain yourself well it is wasted on most on here. Your situation doesn't fit in with their blinkered views unfortunately so they will just dismiss it.
@tegwen Although you explain yourself well it is wasted on most on here. Your situation doesn't fit in with their blinkered views unfortunately so they will just dismiss it. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -1

4:10pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

@Tegwen2011 reasoned argument and supporting evidence is not what allot of these comments are about.
More shouty rhetoric.

You have made some excellent points
@Tegwen2011 reasoned argument and supporting evidence is not what allot of these comments are about. More shouty rhetoric. You have made some excellent points Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 0

4:22pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

Spurs Fan wrote:
The artist known as, I never said those on zero hours contract could claim unemployment benefit, you made that up I'm afraid. I did say that they could claim state benefits and evidence around how many on zero hours is scant to back this up. However if you work so few hours that you cannot keep yourself or your family you could claim benefits such as Income support, Housing Benefit or Working Tax credits. It is estimated that there are 14.1 million families were at least one member works and yet they are still in receipt of benefits. Figures from the Guardian of 6/04/13.

Old town, I did not bring up deviancy in this debate, I believe you did. Therefore, I reiterate A Conservative MP bought to the attention of a Conservative Home Secretary the evidence of what most sane people would acknowledge as just about the most deviant behaviour of several high ranking members of the parliament. This evidence/file was then lost, mislaid, destroyed. Another high ranking Conservative has stated (just this week) that there was probably an unconscious cover up. You say that trade unions are deviant, I say deviancy is more prevalent in Westminster. Your claim that more Labour MPs went to prison for fiddling expenses proves what? More Conservative peers as opposed to Labour peers were found guilty of fiddling as a counter statistic. All this proves is many of those who claim to represent us are cheats no matter what party they represent.
Why has this been down voted so much?
[quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: The artist known as, I never said those on zero hours contract could claim unemployment benefit, you made that up I'm afraid. I did say that they could claim state benefits and evidence around how many on zero hours is scant to back this up. However if you work so few hours that you cannot keep yourself or your family you could claim benefits such as Income support, Housing Benefit or Working Tax credits. It is estimated that there are 14.1 million families were at least one member works and yet they are still in receipt of benefits. Figures from the Guardian of 6/04/13. Old town, I did not bring up deviancy in this debate, I believe you did. Therefore, I reiterate A Conservative MP bought to the attention of a Conservative Home Secretary the evidence of what most sane people would acknowledge as just about the most deviant behaviour of several high ranking members of the parliament. This evidence/file was then lost, mislaid, destroyed. Another high ranking Conservative has stated (just this week) that there was probably an unconscious cover up. You say that trade unions are deviant, I say deviancy is more prevalent in Westminster. Your claim that more Labour MPs went to prison for fiddling expenses proves what? More Conservative peers as opposed to Labour peers were found guilty of fiddling as a counter statistic. All this proves is many of those who claim to represent us are cheats no matter what party they represent.[/p][/quote]Why has this been down voted so much? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 1

7:39pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Goat67 says...

The Witch wrote:
What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this
Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work,
I.e. Fire Fighters!

Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself.
[quote][p][bold]The Witch[/bold] wrote: What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this[/p][/quote]Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work, I.e. Fire Fighters! Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself. Goat67
  • Score: 0

7:42pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Goat67 says...

The Witch wrote:
What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this
Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work,
I.e. Fire Fighters!

Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself.
[quote][p][bold]The Witch[/bold] wrote: What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this[/p][/quote]Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work, I.e. Fire Fighters! Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself. Goat67
  • Score: 2

7:43pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Goat67 says...

The Witch wrote:
What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this
Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work,
I.e. Fire Fighters!

Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself.
[quote][p][bold]The Witch[/bold] wrote: What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this[/p][/quote]Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work, I.e. Fire Fighters! Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself. Goat67
  • Score: -38

8:47pm Fri 11 Jul 14

house on the hill says...

The Real Librarian wrote:
house on the hill wrote:
Agree with all the above, this is selfishness in the extreme for their "safe" well paid jobs in a non competitive guaranteed income environment.. They have no clue what working in the private sector is like and most wouldn't last more than a few weeks if they had to. And no I am not saying all public sector workers are the same, but having worked both sides of the fence the public sector job was the easiest I ever had and had more lazy useless people working there than in the private sector and I know many people who have had the same experience. The reason I left was the frustration of working with idiots in such an inefficient environment where very few cared about the customer and the boredom of having nothing to do And if you don't like your job get another one like loads of us have had to do when we were made redundant, which hardly ever happens in the public sector and when it does they are always well paid and usually more than happy to take the money and run. Most in the private sector would give their right arm for the terms and conditions and pensions on offer Get real and get back to work you ungrateful so and so's
A whole plate of chips on your shoulder.

Do you want ketchup
No chips whatsoever I have the best job I have ever had, just a strong dose of reality that less than 20% if the deadwood stuck in a time warp people I worked with would last more than a month there with their attitudes and no concept whatsoever of real hard work or putting the customer or actually having to. Working with no competition makes workers lazy and complacent as we all have experience of when dealing with the public sector. You have no idea what hard work means!
[quote][p][bold]The Real Librarian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: Agree with all the above, this is selfishness in the extreme for their "safe" well paid jobs in a non competitive guaranteed income environment.. They have no clue what working in the private sector is like and most wouldn't last more than a few weeks if they had to. And no I am not saying all public sector workers are the same, but having worked both sides of the fence the public sector job was the easiest I ever had and had more lazy useless people working there than in the private sector and I know many people who have had the same experience. The reason I left was the frustration of working with idiots in such an inefficient environment where very few cared about the customer and the boredom of having nothing to do And if you don't like your job get another one like loads of us have had to do when we were made redundant, which hardly ever happens in the public sector and when it does they are always well paid and usually more than happy to take the money and run. Most in the private sector would give their right arm for the terms and conditions and pensions on offer Get real and get back to work you ungrateful so and so's[/p][/quote]A whole plate of chips on your shoulder. Do you want ketchup[/p][/quote]No chips whatsoever I have the best job I have ever had, just a strong dose of reality that less than 20% if the deadwood stuck in a time warp people I worked with would last more than a month there with their attitudes and no concept whatsoever of real hard work or putting the customer or actually having to. Working with no competition makes workers lazy and complacent as we all have experience of when dealing with the public sector. You have no idea what hard work means! house on the hill
  • Score: 11

11:21pm Fri 11 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

Goat67 wrote:
The Witch wrote:
What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this
Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work,
I.e. Fire Fighters!

Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself.
No they don't. If you can't see why your statement is factually wrong then that's your problem!

Not sure about the relevance of broomsticks - are people who disagree with you witches??? I really don't know what's going on in your mind. Maybe firemen would prefer that you didn't try and stick up for them!
[quote][p][bold]Goat67[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Witch[/bold] wrote: What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this[/p][/quote]Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work, I.e. Fire Fighters! Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself.[/p][/quote]No they don't. If you can't see why your statement is factually wrong then that's your problem! Not sure about the relevance of broomsticks - are people who disagree with you witches??? I really don't know what's going on in your mind. Maybe firemen would prefer that you didn't try and stick up for them! Phantom Poster
  • Score: -2

8:49am Sat 12 Jul 14

Goat67 says...

Phantom Poster wrote:
Goat67 wrote:
The Witch wrote: What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this
Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work, I.e. Fire Fighters! Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself.
No they don't. If you can't see why your statement is factually wrong then that's your problem! Not sure about the relevance of broomsticks - are people who disagree with you witches??? I really don't know what's going on in your mind. Maybe firemen would prefer that you didn't try and stick up for them!
The relevance of the broomstick is obvious as soon as one realizes that the author of the post being commented on calls themselves the Witch.

Perhaps you should read the post before commenting?
[quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Goat67[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Witch[/bold] wrote: What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this[/p][/quote]Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work, I.e. Fire Fighters! Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself.[/p][/quote]No they don't. If you can't see why your statement is factually wrong then that's your problem! Not sure about the relevance of broomsticks - are people who disagree with you witches??? I really don't know what's going on in your mind. Maybe firemen would prefer that you didn't try and stick up for them![/p][/quote]The relevance of the broomstick is obvious as soon as one realizes that the author of the post being commented on calls themselves the Witch. Perhaps you should read the post before commenting? Goat67
  • Score: 3

6:17pm Sat 12 Jul 14

Phantom Poster says...

Goat67 wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Goat67 wrote:
The Witch wrote: What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this
Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work, I.e. Fire Fighters! Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself.
No they don't. If you can't see why your statement is factually wrong then that's your problem! Not sure about the relevance of broomsticks - are people who disagree with you witches??? I really don't know what's going on in your mind. Maybe firemen would prefer that you didn't try and stick up for them!
The relevance of the broomstick is obvious as soon as one realizes that the author of the post being commented on calls themselves the Witch.

Perhaps you should read the post before commenting?
Yes I did read the post and noticed the username "The Witch". So what? My username is "Phantom Poster" - should I have references to ghosts or whatever, due to my username? Fortunately, I'm not so self-obsessed that I try and make posts structured around the username I happened to randomly choose!

To parapharse Basil Faulty: Can't we get you on Mastermind, Goat67 ? Next contestant: Mr. Goat67 from Swindon. Specialist subject - the bleeding obvious.
[quote][p][bold]Goat67[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Goat67[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Witch[/bold] wrote: What disgusts me is that they are meeting at the Cenotaph which represents earlier generations of people from this town who have given their lives in two World Wars. They never had the chance to spend their lives in employment having to give up their jobs to fight for the freedom of this country. These strikers should hold their heads in shame and be grateful for what they do have, a job, a pay packet and the promise of a pension at the end of their working lives, there are hundreds out there who are unemployed and would welcome the chance of this[/p][/quote]Many of the strikers that met at the cenotaph have served in the armed forces and some put their lives on the line for us every time they go to work, I.e. Fire Fighters! Stick that in your broomstick, light it and launch yourself.[/p][/quote]No they don't. If you can't see why your statement is factually wrong then that's your problem! Not sure about the relevance of broomsticks - are people who disagree with you witches??? I really don't know what's going on in your mind. Maybe firemen would prefer that you didn't try and stick up for them![/p][/quote]The relevance of the broomstick is obvious as soon as one realizes that the author of the post being commented on calls themselves the Witch. Perhaps you should read the post before commenting?[/p][/quote]Yes I did read the post and noticed the username "The Witch". So what? My username is "Phantom Poster" - should I have references to ghosts or whatever, due to my username? Fortunately, I'm not so self-obsessed that I try and make posts structured around the username I happened to randomly choose! To parapharse Basil Faulty: Can't we get you on Mastermind, Goat67 ? Next contestant: Mr. Goat67 from Swindon. Specialist subject - the bleeding obvious. Phantom Poster
  • Score: -3

12:23pm Sun 13 Jul 14

BeardyBill says...

(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union, young man......collective bargaining carries much more weight than trying to do it individually
[quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union, young man......collective bargaining carries much more weight than trying to do it individually BeardyBill
  • Score: 2

12:34pm Sun 13 Jul 14

BeardyBill says...

trolley dolley wrote:
Privatise, Privatise and Privatise.

Enough is enough.

The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector.

No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes.

The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe.

We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.
You really are a complete f*ckwit....do what they did with the miners eh?

The witch Thatcher not only decimated vast swathes of industry across the country, throwing millions out of work, the resulting social deprivation is still apparent - and what did she achieve? Taking an island that's pretty much made of coal, and turning it into an island that's completely dependent on imported gas, the main supplier being Russia.

I hope the traitorous cow is burning in the fires of hell.
[quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: Privatise, Privatise and Privatise. Enough is enough. The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector. No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes. The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe. We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.[/p][/quote]You really are a complete f*ckwit....do what they did with the miners eh? The witch Thatcher not only decimated vast swathes of industry across the country, throwing millions out of work, the resulting social deprivation is still apparent - and what did she achieve? Taking an island that's pretty much made of coal, and turning it into an island that's completely dependent on imported gas, the main supplier being Russia. I hope the traitorous cow is burning in the fires of hell. BeardyBill
  • Score: 4

12:38pm Sun 13 Jul 14

BeardyBill says...

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
cfa wrote:
trolley dolley wrote:
Privatise, Privatise and Privatise.

Enough is enough.

The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector.

No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes.

The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe.

We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.
Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise.

Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome.

Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for.
Quite agree,

At the moment I'm paying a high cost for very little value. I would be less averse to the high cost if I was getting good value (i.e good public services in return for taking over 70% of my income every year). But I'm not, because most (not all) public services are failing to provide either low cost or particular value.
Paying 70% of your income? How?
[quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cfa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: Privatise, Privatise and Privatise. Enough is enough. The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector. No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes. The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe. We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.[/p][/quote]Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise. Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome. Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for.[/p][/quote]Quite agree, At the moment I'm paying a high cost for very little value. I would be less averse to the high cost if I was getting good value (i.e good public services in return for taking over 70% of my income every year). But I'm not, because most (not all) public services are failing to provide either low cost or particular value.[/p][/quote]Paying 70% of your income? How? BeardyBill
  • Score: -1

12:47pm Sun 13 Jul 14

BeardyBill says...

PJC wrote:
This comment thread is so vitriolic, I'm surprised Godwin's Law hasn't kicked in yet!
You would think that, you nazi
[quote][p][bold]PJC[/bold] wrote: This comment thread is so vitriolic, I'm surprised Godwin's Law hasn't kicked in yet![/p][/quote]You would think that, you nazi BeardyBill
  • Score: 1

12:56pm Sun 13 Jul 14

BeardyBill says...

Sandor Clegane wrote:
Spurs Fan wrote:
Mr Clegane, I don't have comrades as I'm neither a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist for that matter. I was schooled in Marxist orthodoxy while reading history at university and if I am anything, I'm a social democrat. Anyway moving on.... your earlier post in my opinion, attempted to trivialise the prevalence of zero hours contracts in the current jobs market. You are of course right to say that that is all that is out there at the present. Nevertheless, they are an increasing development in the jobs sector and in again in my opinion are not beneficial to low paid workers.
I accept you may not personally identify yourself as a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist. You may also not appreciate why it appears that way to others.

I didn't attempt to 'trivialise' anything. When it's something that runs at around 2% of all employees then there's no need to say anything more about it. It's 2%. A tiny minority.

It was actually another contributor who claimed that's 'all' there is out there and you then attempted to imply it's a widespread issue when, clearly, it isn't.

You also seem keen to overlook the fact that, for some employees, zero hour contracts actually work in their favour and are beneficial.
sandor, i appreciate that you may not identify yourself as a w@nker, but you really are a grade A, prize one.
[quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Mr Clegane, I don't have comrades as I'm neither a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist for that matter. I was schooled in Marxist orthodoxy while reading history at university and if I am anything, I'm a social democrat. Anyway moving on.... your earlier post in my opinion, attempted to trivialise the prevalence of zero hours contracts in the current jobs market. You are of course right to say that that is all that is out there at the present. Nevertheless, they are an increasing development in the jobs sector and in again in my opinion are not beneficial to low paid workers.[/p][/quote]I accept you may not personally identify yourself as a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist. You may also not appreciate why it appears that way to others. I didn't attempt to 'trivialise' anything. When it's something that runs at around 2% of all employees then there's no need to say anything more about it. It's 2%. A tiny minority. It was actually another contributor who claimed that's 'all' there is out there and you then attempted to imply it's a widespread issue when, clearly, it isn't. You also seem keen to overlook the fact that, for some employees, zero hour contracts actually work in their favour and are beneficial.[/p][/quote]sandor, i appreciate that you may not identify yourself as a w@nker, but you really are a grade A, prize one. BeardyBill
  • Score: 3

12:59pm Sun 13 Jul 14

BeardyBill says...

Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
Phantom Poster wrote:
Davey Gravey wrote:
(S)adam Hussin wrote:
I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment.

This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?
Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?
What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs!

On the other hand he could just get another job
Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available.
Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.
ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant?

I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your
Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you.
As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.
Yes I have!
Can you tell me where to look then as my son is looking for work.
Has all the necessary gcse's at grade c or above. 2 years at college doing a levels(results pending) and cannot find a job.
Barely getting a response let alone an interview.
Well what we were talking about were people in jobs at the moment going on strike. So those are people with experience I've lately been interviewing numerous candidates for a job in Swindon. I gave up in the end due to the poor quality. I continually get agencies contacting me regarding job vacancies. So there are plenty of jobs out there is you have the right experience.

I have no idea regarding your son's predicament. Perhaps his CV is poorly presented.

Why did we have to come up with this new term 'zero hours contract'? Working as a contractor is nothing new - I've been working with them for decades. They've always done so voluntarily due to the flexibility and potential to make more money. Not everyone thinks they have a right to a job for life.
There is a world of difference between working as a contractor on several hundred pounds a day, and working on a zero-hour minimum wage contract.
[quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phantom Poster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold](S)adam Hussin [/bold] wrote: I work in the private sector and was told only this morning that there will be no annual pay increment. This is now the second consecutive year without a raise so when do I go on strike?[/p][/quote]Join a union and stand up for yourselves then. Why people get knocked for fighting for a better future I do not know?[/p][/quote]What a brilliant idea! Go on strike then your customers go elsewhere, then to company goes under and everyone loses their jobs! On the other hand he could just get another job[/p][/quote]Where? Only **** zero hour rubbish on below the living wage are available. Welcome to modern Britain, a nation in decline.[/p][/quote]ONLY zero hours rubbish? Bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, he could stay where he is till conditions improve. Have you considered that the company he works for might be making a loss and can't afford to give a pay rise and is trying to avoid making people redundant? I really can imagine you as a spoiled child going into a tantrum when you asked your[/p][/quote]Ha. Have you actually looked what is available? There ain't a lot I can tell you. As for being spoilt, again you assume wrongly about me. I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and in a family on the breadline for years. Just like many are now with the same lot ruining the country.[/p][/quote]Yes I have![/p][/quote]Can you tell me where to look then as my son is looking for work. Has all the necessary gcse's at grade c or above. 2 years at college doing a levels(results pending) and cannot find a job. Barely getting a response let alone an interview.[/p][/quote]Well what we were talking about were people in jobs at the moment going on strike. So those are people with experience I've lately been interviewing numerous candidates for a job in Swindon. I gave up in the end due to the poor quality. I continually get agencies contacting me regarding job vacancies. So there are plenty of jobs out there is you have the right experience. I have no idea regarding your son's predicament. Perhaps his CV is poorly presented. Why did we have to come up with this new term 'zero hours contract'? Working as a contractor is nothing new - I've been working with them for decades. They've always done so voluntarily due to the flexibility and potential to make more money. Not everyone thinks they have a right to a job for life.[/p][/quote]There is a world of difference between working as a contractor on several hundred pounds a day, and working on a zero-hour minimum wage contract. BeardyBill
  • Score: 0

10:21am Mon 14 Jul 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

BeardyBill wrote:
Sandor Clegane wrote:
Spurs Fan wrote:
Mr Clegane, I don't have comrades as I'm neither a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist for that matter. I was schooled in Marxist orthodoxy while reading history at university and if I am anything, I'm a social democrat. Anyway moving on.... your earlier post in my opinion, attempted to trivialise the prevalence of zero hours contracts in the current jobs market. You are of course right to say that that is all that is out there at the present. Nevertheless, they are an increasing development in the jobs sector and in again in my opinion are not beneficial to low paid workers.
I accept you may not personally identify yourself as a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist. You may also not appreciate why it appears that way to others.

I didn't attempt to 'trivialise' anything. When it's something that runs at around 2% of all employees then there's no need to say anything more about it. It's 2%. A tiny minority.

It was actually another contributor who claimed that's 'all' there is out there and you then attempted to imply it's a widespread issue when, clearly, it isn't.

You also seem keen to overlook the fact that, for some employees, zero hour contracts actually work in their favour and are beneficial.
sandor, i appreciate that you may not identify yourself as a w@nker, but you really are a grade A, prize one.
Thats councilor w@nker to us
[quote][p][bold]BeardyBill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sandor Clegane[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Spurs Fan[/bold] wrote: Mr Clegane, I don't have comrades as I'm neither a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist for that matter. I was schooled in Marxist orthodoxy while reading history at university and if I am anything, I'm a social democrat. Anyway moving on.... your earlier post in my opinion, attempted to trivialise the prevalence of zero hours contracts in the current jobs market. You are of course right to say that that is all that is out there at the present. Nevertheless, they are an increasing development in the jobs sector and in again in my opinion are not beneficial to low paid workers.[/p][/quote]I accept you may not personally identify yourself as a Marxist/Leninist or a Communist. You may also not appreciate why it appears that way to others. I didn't attempt to 'trivialise' anything. When it's something that runs at around 2% of all employees then there's no need to say anything more about it. It's 2%. A tiny minority. It was actually another contributor who claimed that's 'all' there is out there and you then attempted to imply it's a widespread issue when, clearly, it isn't. You also seem keen to overlook the fact that, for some employees, zero hour contracts actually work in their favour and are beneficial.[/p][/quote]sandor, i appreciate that you may not identify yourself as a w@nker, but you really are a grade A, prize one.[/p][/quote]Thats councilor w@nker to us Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: -1

1:02pm Mon 14 Jul 14

WiltsBerks says...

Wow, some pretty direct exchanges going on here. I must admit my sympathy is limited, but then so might be my thinking, but at this point my feelings are like this: It seems questionable that those with job security, pensions and (for many) above 'average' salaries are striking, when implicitly this means that they are asking those without job security, pensions or above avergae salaries to finance public sector pensions & pay, in a strikingly "Im all right jack" move. Ironically, a very right wing attitude, considering most are members of left-wing affiliated unions.
Wow, some pretty direct exchanges going on here. I must admit my sympathy is limited, but then so might be my thinking, but at this point my feelings are like this: It seems questionable that those with job security, pensions and (for many) above 'average' salaries are striking, when implicitly this means that they are asking those without job security, pensions or above avergae salaries to finance public sector pensions & pay, in a strikingly "Im all right jack" move. Ironically, a very right wing attitude, considering most are members of left-wing affiliated unions. WiltsBerks
  • Score: 0

1:45pm Mon 14 Jul 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

BeardyBill wrote:
The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man wrote:
cfa wrote:
trolley dolley wrote:
Privatise, Privatise and Privatise.

Enough is enough.

The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector.

No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes.

The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe.

We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.
Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise.

Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome.

Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for.
Quite agree,

At the moment I'm paying a high cost for very little value. I would be less averse to the high cost if I was getting good value (i.e good public services in return for taking over 70% of my income every year). But I'm not, because most (not all) public services are failing to provide either low cost or particular value.
Paying 70% of your income? How?
Income tax. National Insurance. Fuel Duty. VAT. Council tax. You name it, they've taxed it.
[quote][p][bold]BeardyBill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cfa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: Privatise, Privatise and Privatise. Enough is enough. The council could start by doing what they did with Adult Social Care, turn their departments into Social Enterprises or even better, hand them over to the private sector. No more trouble with workers wanting everything they can get for very little work. They would find themselves jobless within weeks with their attitudes. The government should do what they did with the miners, no more trouble there I believe. We should all stop pandering to these lazy people.[/p][/quote]Yes lets privatise, privatise and privatise. Most public services are designed to make things better. The bottom line with privatisation is, well, the bottom line - to make a profit. Fact, if you privatise something then the main objectives become efficiency and profit, though not always in that order, not outcome. Cost and value are two different things, so be careful what you wish for.[/p][/quote]Quite agree, At the moment I'm paying a high cost for very little value. I would be less averse to the high cost if I was getting good value (i.e good public services in return for taking over 70% of my income every year). But I'm not, because most (not all) public services are failing to provide either low cost or particular value.[/p][/quote]Paying 70% of your income? How?[/p][/quote]Income tax. National Insurance. Fuel Duty. VAT. Council tax. You name it, they've taxed it. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 0

1:54pm Mon 14 Jul 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

Robh wrote:
It is like a march on here Left, Right, Left, Right. Having worked in both I have various views on who works for a living and who loafs along just to get a wage. It is six of one ad half a dozen of the other. Look round your place of work and have an honest appraisal of who is worth their wages and who is a skiver. I think many would be surprised of the results.
I think the council should take this comment on board. What exactly do you do and what have you achieved?
What projects have been completed on time and within budget?

Loafs hanging around just to get an easy payday, would that be like wasting millions intended to improve the town with a wi-fi system and then just paying friends?
[quote][p][bold]Robh[/bold] wrote: It is like a march on here Left, Right, Left, Right. Having worked in both I have various views on who works for a living and who loafs along just to get a wage. It is six of one ad half a dozen of the other. Look round your place of work and have an honest appraisal of who is worth their wages and who is a skiver. I think many would be surprised of the results.[/p][/quote]I think the council should take this comment on board. What exactly do you do and what have you achieved? What projects have been completed on time and within budget? Loafs hanging around just to get an easy payday, would that be like wasting millions intended to improve the town with a wi-fi system and then just paying friends? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 15
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