Bulldozing Chippenham church hall ‘good for community

This Is Wiltshire: Vicar Simon Dunn contemplates the fate of the St Paul’s church hall Vicar Simon Dunn contemplates the fate of the St Paul’s church hall

Plans to demolish St Paul’s Church Hall in Chippenham and sell the land to developers will benefit the community in the long-run, says its vicar, the Rev Simon Dunn.

Mr Dunn, team vicar for the north Chippenham group of churches including St Paul’s, says the money raised would be used to improve facilities inside the church.

The church council has submitted an application to knock down the hall, in Malmesbury Road, and build five three-bedroom houses.

The hall is home to several community groups, including theatre company Rag and Bone Arts, and used for parties, workshops, fitness classes and support groups.

More than 300 people have signed a petition against the demolition and Chippenham Town Council has also recommended that the application should be refused.

Mr Dunn said the application was part of plans to use more of the main church building, which have been in the pipeline over the last two to three years.

He said: “The church hall is dilapidated; it’s well-used but it leaks rain. It costs an enormous amount to run.

“The only reason it’s open as a church hall is because it’s funded by the church community. It makes a loss and that’s not something that can continue forever.

“We either re-build or re-site. The intention is we utilise the church footprint to re-site everything by releasing the land for development.

“If you go into the main church, it’s one space. It’s very high, it’s got pews in the main area, so there’s only a limited amount you can do. The idea is to recreate the inside of that space.”

Plans for the church include a mezzanine floor to provide a hall, meeting rooms and offices. The church hopes to remove pews, creating a large space for groups, and build a downstairs kitchen.

The Ascension Chapel would be separated and used as a chapel while the rest of the church is being used.

The cost of work up upgrade the church is likely to reach £900,000.

Mr Dunn said the church hoped to make up to £425,000 on the hall land and the rest would have to come from congregation members.

He said: “We have tried our hardest to have as much consultation as we feasibly can. We have had time for groups to walk around the church footprint with plans in hand.

“The full intention of doing this is not to make a funky church building, it’s about increasing the opportunities we are able to give as a church community.”

Comments (13)

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4:55pm Fri 11 Jul 14

allthedecentnameshavegone says...

Why not keep the church hall and bulldoze the church? You'd fit more houses on the land currently occupied by the church than you would on the site of the church hall, and the handful of people that attend the church could go somewhere else to talk to their imaginary friend.
Why not keep the church hall and bulldoze the church? You'd fit more houses on the land currently occupied by the church than you would on the site of the church hall, and the handful of people that attend the church could go somewhere else to talk to their imaginary friend. allthedecentnameshavegone
  • Score: 14

4:20pm Sat 12 Jul 14

salt and vinegar says...

Tragic!!!
Tragic!!! salt and vinegar
  • Score: 0

7:52am Mon 14 Jul 14

sscxp28 says...

After reading the article the plans for the church do sound great. and having used the hall it is in a dire state. I guess the only thing that will happen is that it will be closed down and left to rot even further.
Why not back and support the church in their plans to update the facilities you all use? Alternativley we use the Busby club on monkton park, this is also a much underused space and could benefit the extra use from these clubs.
After reading the article the plans for the church do sound great. and having used the hall it is in a dire state. I guess the only thing that will happen is that it will be closed down and left to rot even further. Why not back and support the church in their plans to update the facilities you all use? Alternativley we use the Busby club on monkton park, this is also a much underused space and could benefit the extra use from these clubs. sscxp28
  • Score: 4

12:11pm Mon 14 Jul 14

RevSimonDunn says...

Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers.

Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly.

The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.
Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs. RevSimonDunn
  • Score: 4

7:16pm Mon 14 Jul 14

politepanda says...

I know needs must - but I can see it now - a carbuncle of flats with insufficient parking. Hopefully without some of the vermin that infest some other blocks of flats situated centrally in Chippenham
So hopefully this will serve ALL of the community - not just the local church and it's supporters.
I know needs must - but I can see it now - a carbuncle of flats with insufficient parking. Hopefully without some of the vermin that infest some other blocks of flats situated centrally in Chippenham So hopefully this will serve ALL of the community - not just the local church and it's supporters. politepanda
  • Score: 1

10:16pm Mon 14 Jul 14

allthedecentnameshavegone says...

RevSimonDunn wrote:
Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers.

Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly.

The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.
If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.
[quote][p][bold]RevSimonDunn[/bold] wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.[/p][/quote]If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham. allthedecentnameshavegone
  • Score: 8

8:55am Tue 15 Jul 14

CPNResi says...

allthedecentnameshav
egone
wrote:
RevSimonDunn wrote:
Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers.

Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly.

The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.
If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.
What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type...
[quote][p][bold]allthedecentnameshav egone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RevSimonDunn[/bold] wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.[/p][/quote]If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.[/p][/quote]What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type... CPNResi
  • Score: -12

9:30am Tue 15 Jul 14

SunsetGardener says...

allthedecentnameshav
egone
wrote:
Why not keep the church hall and bulldoze the church? You'd fit more houses on the land currently occupied by the church than you would on the site of the church hall, and the handful of people that attend the church could go somewhere else to talk to their imaginary friend.
I can see the logic of this argument, but unfortunately the church is a historic listed building, so the planners would never agree for it to be knocked down and turned into housing. The existing hall is deteriorating year by year, and although it is widely used by the community, it is not fully funded by the groups that use it, or by the council. It is owned and subsidised by St Paul's church which does not have the money to rebuild or renovate the hall to a decent standard. That is why the option of selling the hall and using the money raised to provide good quality community space within the church building itself seems a sensible option.
[quote][p][bold]allthedecentnameshav egone[/bold] wrote: Why not keep the church hall and bulldoze the church? You'd fit more houses on the land currently occupied by the church than you would on the site of the church hall, and the handful of people that attend the church could go somewhere else to talk to their imaginary friend.[/p][/quote]I can see the logic of this argument, but unfortunately the church is a historic listed building, so the planners would never agree for it to be knocked down and turned into housing. The existing hall is deteriorating year by year, and although it is widely used by the community, it is not fully funded by the groups that use it, or by the council. It is owned and subsidised by St Paul's church which does not have the money to rebuild or renovate the hall to a decent standard. That is why the option of selling the hall and using the money raised to provide good quality community space within the church building itself seems a sensible option. SunsetGardener
  • Score: 4

2:03pm Tue 15 Jul 14

chips-in-ham says...

CPNResi wrote:
allthedecentnameshav egone wrote:
RevSimonDunn wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.
If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.
What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type...
Obviously has nothing else better to do! I expect has no job and living of the state. If someone wishes to believe in something/someone then it is their right, who are we to judge what is right or wrong, real or fake. The church for many as it is for me is a symbol of family happiness and times of celebration. I was married then as well as my parent and grand parents. I do not attend all the time, no, but would never start assualting/abusing someones believes just because they are different to my own. Would you be typing on this site saying rasist comments about coloured people, no I doubt it very much, so why dont you crawl back under your pebble and stop being so childish!
[quote][p][bold]CPNResi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]allthedecentnameshav egone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RevSimonDunn[/bold] wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.[/p][/quote]If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.[/p][/quote]What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type...[/p][/quote]Obviously has nothing else better to do! I expect has no job and living of the state. If someone wishes to believe in something/someone then it is their right, who are we to judge what is right or wrong, real or fake. The church for many as it is for me is a symbol of family happiness and times of celebration. I was married then as well as my parent and grand parents. I do not attend all the time, no, but would never start assualting/abusing someones believes just because they are different to my own. Would you be typing on this site saying rasist comments about coloured people, no I doubt it very much, so why dont you crawl back under your pebble and stop being so childish! chips-in-ham
  • Score: -3

1:11am Wed 16 Jul 14

bill oddie says...

chips-in-ham wrote:
CPNResi wrote:
allthedecentnameshav egone wrote:
RevSimonDunn wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.
If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.
What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type...
Obviously has nothing else better to do! I expect has no job and living of the state. If someone wishes to believe in something/someone then it is their right, who are we to judge what is right or wrong, real or fake. The church for many as it is for me is a symbol of family happiness and times of celebration. I was married then as well as my parent and grand parents. I do not attend all the time, no, but would never start assualting/abusing someones believes just because they are different to my own. Would you be typing on this site saying rasist comments about coloured people, no I doubt it very much, so why dont you crawl back under your pebble and stop being so childish!
I think you'll find that the term "coloured" is generally found offensive by by non whites. Does the church not teach you that?...I digress.
He/she is entitled to their opinion and whilst the phrasing of their comments may not sit well with you (and your imaginary friend who welcomes the views of others) they are entitled to their opinion. I, for what it's worth am actually pleased for you that the church brought you so many positives to your life - there is certainly no shortage of choice for ones to attend in Chippenham. He/she raises a valid point.
God bless. X
[quote][p][bold]chips-in-ham[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CPNResi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]allthedecentnameshav egone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RevSimonDunn[/bold] wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.[/p][/quote]If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.[/p][/quote]What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type...[/p][/quote]Obviously has nothing else better to do! I expect has no job and living of the state. If someone wishes to believe in something/someone then it is their right, who are we to judge what is right or wrong, real or fake. The church for many as it is for me is a symbol of family happiness and times of celebration. I was married then as well as my parent and grand parents. I do not attend all the time, no, but would never start assualting/abusing someones believes just because they are different to my own. Would you be typing on this site saying rasist comments about coloured people, no I doubt it very much, so why dont you crawl back under your pebble and stop being so childish![/p][/quote]I think you'll find that the term "coloured" is generally found offensive by by non whites. Does the church not teach you that?...I digress. He/she is entitled to their opinion and whilst the phrasing of their comments may not sit well with you (and your imaginary friend who welcomes the views of others) they are entitled to their opinion. I, for what it's worth am actually pleased for you that the church brought you so many positives to your life - there is certainly no shortage of choice for ones to attend in Chippenham. He/she raises a valid point. God bless. X bill oddie
  • Score: 11

8:13am Wed 16 Jul 14

allthedecentnameshavegone says...

chips-in-ham wrote:
CPNResi wrote:
allthedecentnameshav egone wrote:
RevSimonDunn wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.
If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.
What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type...
Obviously has nothing else better to do! I expect has no job and living of the state. If someone wishes to believe in something/someone then it is their right, who are we to judge what is right or wrong, real or fake. The church for many as it is for me is a symbol of family happiness and times of celebration. I was married then as well as my parent and grand parents. I do not attend all the time, no, but would never start assualting/abusing someones believes just because they are different to my own. Would you be typing on this site saying rasist comments about coloured people, no I doubt it very much, so why dont you crawl back under your pebble and stop being so childish!
chips-in-ham - it's not very christian of you to resort to personal insults, no matter how inaccurate, just because you disagree with my point of view. You are, of course, entitled to believe in whatever you choose, no matter how irrational, illogical or outdated that may be. I was merely trying to point out that there are alternatives to the current proposals that could benefit a larger number of people, whilst at the same time pointing out one of the inconsistencies and hypocrisies with your religion: that although your god is omnipotent and ever present, you need to attend the premises of, and donate money to, an already wealthy organisation in order to worship him.

On the subject of inconsistencies and hypocrisies, could you explain to me how christianity, which claims the world is just a few thousand years old, explains the existance of dinosaur remains that have been proven to be millions of years old?
[quote][p][bold]chips-in-ham[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CPNResi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]allthedecentnameshav egone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RevSimonDunn[/bold] wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.[/p][/quote]If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.[/p][/quote]What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type...[/p][/quote]Obviously has nothing else better to do! I expect has no job and living of the state. If someone wishes to believe in something/someone then it is their right, who are we to judge what is right or wrong, real or fake. The church for many as it is for me is a symbol of family happiness and times of celebration. I was married then as well as my parent and grand parents. I do not attend all the time, no, but would never start assualting/abusing someones believes just because they are different to my own. Would you be typing on this site saying rasist comments about coloured people, no I doubt it very much, so why dont you crawl back under your pebble and stop being so childish![/p][/quote]chips-in-ham - it's not very christian of you to resort to personal insults, no matter how inaccurate, just because you disagree with my point of view. You are, of course, entitled to believe in whatever you choose, no matter how irrational, illogical or outdated that may be. I was merely trying to point out that there are alternatives to the current proposals that could benefit a larger number of people, whilst at the same time pointing out one of the inconsistencies and hypocrisies with your religion: that although your god is omnipotent and ever present, you need to attend the premises of, and donate money to, an already wealthy organisation in order to worship him. On the subject of inconsistencies and hypocrisies, could you explain to me how christianity, which claims the world is just a few thousand years old, explains the existance of dinosaur remains that have been proven to be millions of years old? allthedecentnameshavegone
  • Score: 5

8:20am Thu 17 Jul 14

politepanda says...

chips-in-ham wrote:
CPNResi wrote:
allthedecentnameshav egone wrote:
RevSimonDunn wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.
If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.
What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type...
Obviously has nothing else better to do! I expect has no job and living of the state. If someone wishes to believe in something/someone then it is their right, who are we to judge what is right or wrong, real or fake. The church for many as it is for me is a symbol of family happiness and times of celebration. I was married then as well as my parent and grand parents. I do not attend all the time, no, but would never start assualting/abusing someones believes just because they are different to my own. Would you be typing on this site saying rasist comments about coloured people, no I doubt it very much, so why dont you crawl back under your pebble and stop being so childish!
If you







So - you answer what you consider to be an insulting remark - with your own insults - then ask others to crawl back under a pebble....?
Is that how your church teaches you to behave?
[quote][p][bold]chips-in-ham[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CPNResi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]allthedecentnameshav egone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RevSimonDunn[/bold] wrote: Great catchy headline but I don't remember mentioning, or even being asked, about bulldozers. Have respect for the comment from sscxp28, who has provided a much more sensible response. This is someone who has obviously engaged in the full plans (actually increasing opportunity and available spaces and certainly not reducing them!) and has therefore commented accordingly. The Church Commuinity respects alternative views. We simply seek to use our resources (buildings included) as best as we can, and in line with 21st Century needs.[/p][/quote]If you were to follow my suggestion of building on the site of the church, its sale would raise more than enough funds to renovate the (or rebuild) the church hall. The surplus cash could be donated to worthwhile charities and benefit a larger number of people, and your god, which your religion claims to be omnipotent and ever-present, could be worshipped from the comfort of your congregation's armchairs or from the many other churches in Chippenham.[/p][/quote]What an utterly disrespectful and pointless thing to type...[/p][/quote]Obviously has nothing else better to do! I expect has no job and living of the state. If someone wishes to believe in something/someone then it is their right, who are we to judge what is right or wrong, real or fake. The church for many as it is for me is a symbol of family happiness and times of celebration. I was married then as well as my parent and grand parents. I do not attend all the time, no, but would never start assualting/abusing someones believes just because they are different to my own. Would you be typing on this site saying rasist comments about coloured people, no I doubt it very much, so why dont you crawl back under your pebble and stop being so childish![/p][/quote]If you So - you answer what you consider to be an insulting remark - with your own insults - then ask others to crawl back under a pebble....? Is that how your church teaches you to behave? politepanda
  • Score: 5

9:00am Thu 17 Jul 14

Stanley Baxter says...

The money from the sale of the land will not cover half of the costs to alter the Church. The local community has to raise the other £450,000 can I ask why you don't just raise the extra £450,000 and repair the hall that you already have and leave the Church as it is.
The money from the sale of the land will not cover half of the costs to alter the Church. The local community has to raise the other £450,000 can I ask why you don't just raise the extra £450,000 and repair the hall that you already have and leave the Church as it is. Stanley Baxter
  • Score: 3

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