Groves hails hosts’ Devil-ish defence

This Is Wiltshire: Town’s Mass Luongo and Crawley’s Gavin Tomlon strike a pose while battling for the ball Town’s Mass Luongo and Crawley’s Gavin Tomlon strike a pose while battling for the ball

CRAWLEY Town assistant Paul Groves said his side had to show high levels of fitness and resilience to keep Town at bay in Crawley’s 1-0 win.

Swindon out shot Crawley 26 to eight and had 62 per cent of possession at The Broadfield but could not find a way past Brian Jensen and his backline.

A number of times Michael Smith, Ben Gladwin and Massimo Luongo had shots blocked and deflected away from goal, even after Louis Thompson’s red card.

Despite those statistical advantages and half-chances, clear-cut openings were rare for Town. Groves, speaking after the game, thought Crawley had to be at their defensive best to keep Swindon out.

“It was another difficult fixture today when you take into account how the game panned out for us, so another excellent win for us,” he said.

“I think in terms of the qualities that our players have and have shown, really over the course of pre-season and the beginning of the season, they’ve shown their resilience, they’ve shown excellent levels of fitness, a togetherness and they’ve all come to the fore there today.

“They’ve answered more questions, if you like at times. They’ve stuck in there and we’ve perhaps had the best opportunities in the first half, albeit they (Town) have had more possession.

“In the second half we get that one opportunity to put it away and Izale (McLeod) takes it and we take the three points.

“(A strong defence), it’s a foundation most clubs try to build from and we’re no different in that respect. You know, making sure we’re hard to play against, we’re difficult to break down, whatever type of style we’re going to play and we proved that today. “ Groves also admitted referee James Linington was not best placed to give the penalty, due to the speed of Crawley’s break but refused to be drawn on whether he thought it was the right decision.

Asked whether he thought Thompson got a touch on the ball the Crawley assistant said: “It’s difficult to say. I think it’s a quick counter attack, so it’s at pace, it looks like he is the last man, it’s difficult for the ref, he trying to catch things up, as such, and he makes a call that he feels is right on the day.

“Some you get, some you don’t, we took the opportunity, Izale does it in the end and finishes the chance.”

Comments (54)

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6:19am Mon 18 Aug 14

Adelaide Red says...

So....was it a pen????
So....was it a pen???? Adelaide Red
  • Score: 0

7:28am Mon 18 Aug 14

Lazaat says...

Seems like it was a debatable penalty, but the lesson here is there is no point in having all that possession and all those half chances if we cant and dont score? We only have ourselves to blame, if we cant convert some of those chances then we dont deserve to win so we cant complain. Having said that it was an encouraging performance.
Seems like it was a debatable penalty, but the lesson here is there is no point in having all that possession and all those half chances if we cant and dont score? We only have ourselves to blame, if we cant convert some of those chances then we dont deserve to win so we cant complain. Having said that it was an encouraging performance. Lazaat
  • Score: 10

7:35am Mon 18 Aug 14

subbuteoles says...

Of course it was,nt. How can a referee award a penalty when he is 30 yards behind play and not even consult his linesman who was alot closer?. WE ALWAYS GET S*** REFS!.
Of course it was,nt. How can a referee award a penalty when he is 30 yards behind play and not even consult his linesman who was alot closer?. WE ALWAYS GET S*** REFS!. subbuteoles
  • Score: 7

7:53am Mon 18 Aug 14

port de soller says...

s--t refs no excuse look at the Stats of the Town.Groves was spot on they just could not sore against a strong physivcal side.
Yes is great to watch tippy tappy football but it¨s tough in the lower divisions and unfortunately the Town were taught a lesson,So they need to take notice of Saturdays game not just the result but how they were beated
s--t refs no excuse look at the Stats of the Town.Groves was spot on they just could not sore against a strong physivcal side. Yes is great to watch tippy tappy football but it¨s tough in the lower divisions and unfortunately the Town were taught a lesson,So they need to take notice of Saturdays game not just the result but how they were beated port de soller
  • Score: -7

8:29am Mon 18 Aug 14

smirg kcab says...

Another Shiit week to look forward too?
Another Shiit week to look forward too? smirg kcab
  • Score: -8

8:36am Mon 18 Aug 14

Bassett Hound says...

I see Stephens was on the bench for Southampton yesterday
I see Stephens was on the bench for Southampton yesterday Bassett Hound
  • Score: 0

9:09am Mon 18 Aug 14

harley red says...

We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!! harley red
  • Score: -23

9:39am Mon 18 Aug 14

Cleuso says...

harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
[quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know. Cleuso
  • Score: 21

11:19am Mon 18 Aug 14

Swindon1984 says...

Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
It does make me laugh, one narrow defeat and suddenly by some people's estimation we're a bad side. Seems like nothing will be said when we get a good result by some, and as soon as there's a defeat it's an excuse to come out and call for the manager's head. Crazy.
[quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]It does make me laugh, one narrow defeat and suddenly by some people's estimation we're a bad side. Seems like nothing will be said when we get a good result by some, and as soon as there's a defeat it's an excuse to come out and call for the manager's head. Crazy. Swindon1984
  • Score: 3

11:36am Mon 18 Aug 14

redbythesea says...

Just accept that hardly red is a WUM who gets his kicks from upsetting real fans. He has no real opinion on games. The fact that he is a second or third rate WUM, and compares very poorly to the likes of Smirg, makes him even more irrelevant.
Just accept that hardly red is a WUM who gets his kicks from upsetting real fans. He has no real opinion on games. The fact that he is a second or third rate WUM, and compares very poorly to the likes of Smirg, makes him even more irrelevant. redbythesea
  • Score: 3

12:13pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
[quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses. Oi Den!
  • Score: -16

12:46pm Mon 18 Aug 14

The Jockster says...

Exactly right Den it's about time Rose and her loyal band of tinters woke up and smelt the coffee.
In all three games so far we could easily have lost. The widely accepted view is that Scunny could easily have had 3-4 goals (had they taken their chances-which ultimately is how games are won) before we got what proved to be the decisive 3rd. Luton were no pushovers and until we woke up after 20mins of the second half that result was never a gimme even though we had the lions share of possession. Similarly against Crawley we're told that we dictated most of the play but that's no good if we can't put away even 10% of the chances created- which we didn't.
It's about time the all the happy clappers realised that the reason we lose games isn't because we concede a penalty dubious or otherwise, it's because with our powder puff attack and fragile defence we can't score or robustly defend. Yes Smith, up until now has done well but he needs back up and we need a couple of defenders who'd be taller than the makeshift arrangement we currently have at the back.
I just don't understand why it's so difficult for so many to see the blindingly obvious.
Exactly right Den it's about time Rose and her loyal band of tinters woke up and smelt the coffee. In all three games so far we could easily have lost. The widely accepted view is that Scunny could easily have had 3-4 goals (had they taken their chances-which ultimately is how games are won) before we got what proved to be the decisive 3rd. Luton were no pushovers and until we woke up after 20mins of the second half that result was never a gimme even though we had the lions share of possession. Similarly against Crawley we're told that we dictated most of the play but that's no good if we can't put away even 10% of the chances created- which we didn't. It's about time the all the happy clappers realised that the reason we lose games isn't because we concede a penalty dubious or otherwise, it's because with our powder puff attack and fragile defence we can't score or robustly defend. Yes Smith, up until now has done well but he needs back up and we need a couple of defenders who'd be taller than the makeshift arrangement we currently have at the back. I just don't understand why it's so difficult for so many to see the blindingly obvious. The Jockster
  • Score: -13

12:59pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Is that you Lovesey says...

I am not a fan of Cooper and never have been, but you can't blame him for Saturday, we dominated the game, had more shots and efforts but one decision whether it was right or wrong is debatable, but what concerns me is that it came from a long punt over the top again, anybody who was at the Scunny game will know how dodgy we looked when Scunny played a straight ball over the top.

For me we are waiting on Stevens coming in, he will then play in the middle with Nathan on the right and Turnbull on the left, that will look a lot more balanced, 3 at the back is here to stay lads so lets get used to it.

I wasn't at Crawley, but Pals who were said we should have won the game and played well even with 10 men.

As I said I am not a MC fan, but what else can he do, we have a threadbare squad, very little funds available and injuries starting to mount up.

Its too early in the season to start moaning, 2 from three games is a good return and frankly for me if we finish in the top half of the season he would have done a good job.
I am not a fan of Cooper and never have been, but you can't blame him for Saturday, we dominated the game, had more shots and efforts but one decision whether it was right or wrong is debatable, but what concerns me is that it came from a long punt over the top again, anybody who was at the Scunny game will know how dodgy we looked when Scunny played a straight ball over the top. For me we are waiting on Stevens coming in, he will then play in the middle with Nathan on the right and Turnbull on the left, that will look a lot more balanced, 3 at the back is here to stay lads so lets get used to it. I wasn't at Crawley, but Pals who were said we should have won the game and played well even with 10 men. As I said I am not a MC fan, but what else can he do, we have a threadbare squad, very little funds available and injuries starting to mount up. Its too early in the season to start moaning, 2 from three games is a good return and frankly for me if we finish in the top half of the season he would have done a good job. Is that you Lovesey
  • Score: 2

1:00pm Mon 18 Aug 14

STFCTID says...

Jockster - people wont accept any point from someone who refers to them as "happy clappers".
If you want people to accept a point - dont insult them while making it.
Jockster - people wont accept any point from someone who refers to them as "happy clappers". If you want people to accept a point - dont insult them while making it. STFCTID
  • Score: 8

1:31pm Mon 18 Aug 14

port de soller says...

changing subject:Any news on the 2/3 players who were coming in by last Saturday??????
If it´s there are none just come clean Tell the fans
changing subject:Any news on the 2/3 players who were coming in by last Saturday?????? If it´s there are none just come clean Tell the fans port de soller
  • Score: -5

1:43pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
I am not a fan of Cooper and never have been, but you can't blame him for Saturday, we dominated the game, had more shots and efforts but one decision whether it was right or wrong is debatable, but what concerns me is that it came from a long punt over the top again, anybody who was at the Scunny game will know how dodgy we looked when Scunny played a straight ball over the top.

For me we are waiting on Stevens coming in, he will then play in the middle with Nathan on the right and Turnbull on the left, that will look a lot more balanced, 3 at the back is here to stay lads so lets get used to it.

I wasn't at Crawley, but Pals who were said we should have won the game and played well even with 10 men.

As I said I am not a MC fan, but what else can he do, we have a threadbare squad, very little funds available and injuries starting to mount up.

Its too early in the season to start moaning, 2 from three games is a good return and frankly for me if we finish in the top half of the season he would have done a good job.
ITYL, unlike you I do speak as a Cooper fan. I think he's done a great job so far. Saturday's defeat is not the end of the world. I just wish the manager would accept it with good grace and look at the real reasons instead of blaming the ref. He said after the game that the only thing he could fault on Saturday was our final ball. What about our finishing and the fact that our central defenders were nowhere to be seen when McLeod ran onto the long ball over the top? There are many people who are not fans of Cooper. This sort of attitude to defeat will give them more ammunition.

By the way, I agree entirely with your assessment of the task he faces. Whoever is in charge will struggle every season if he has to keep patching up holes.
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: I am not a fan of Cooper and never have been, but you can't blame him for Saturday, we dominated the game, had more shots and efforts but one decision whether it was right or wrong is debatable, but what concerns me is that it came from a long punt over the top again, anybody who was at the Scunny game will know how dodgy we looked when Scunny played a straight ball over the top. For me we are waiting on Stevens coming in, he will then play in the middle with Nathan on the right and Turnbull on the left, that will look a lot more balanced, 3 at the back is here to stay lads so lets get used to it. I wasn't at Crawley, but Pals who were said we should have won the game and played well even with 10 men. As I said I am not a MC fan, but what else can he do, we have a threadbare squad, very little funds available and injuries starting to mount up. Its too early in the season to start moaning, 2 from three games is a good return and frankly for me if we finish in the top half of the season he would have done a good job.[/p][/quote]ITYL, unlike you I do speak as a Cooper fan. I think he's done a great job so far. Saturday's defeat is not the end of the world. I just wish the manager would accept it with good grace and look at the real reasons instead of blaming the ref. He said after the game that the only thing he could fault on Saturday was our final ball. What about our finishing and the fact that our central defenders were nowhere to be seen when McLeod ran onto the long ball over the top? There are many people who are not fans of Cooper. This sort of attitude to defeat will give them more ammunition. By the way, I agree entirely with your assessment of the task he faces. Whoever is in charge will struggle every season if he has to keep patching up holes. Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

2:00pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Is that you Lovesey says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote:
I am not a fan of Cooper and never have been, but you can't blame him for Saturday, we dominated the game, had more shots and efforts but one decision whether it was right or wrong is debatable, but what concerns me is that it came from a long punt over the top again, anybody who was at the Scunny game will know how dodgy we looked when Scunny played a straight ball over the top.

For me we are waiting on Stevens coming in, he will then play in the middle with Nathan on the right and Turnbull on the left, that will look a lot more balanced, 3 at the back is here to stay lads so lets get used to it.

I wasn't at Crawley, but Pals who were said we should have won the game and played well even with 10 men.

As I said I am not a MC fan, but what else can he do, we have a threadbare squad, very little funds available and injuries starting to mount up.

Its too early in the season to start moaning, 2 from three games is a good return and frankly for me if we finish in the top half of the season he would have done a good job.
ITYL, unlike you I do speak as a Cooper fan. I think he's done a great job so far. Saturday's defeat is not the end of the world. I just wish the manager would accept it with good grace and look at the real reasons instead of blaming the ref. He said after the game that the only thing he could fault on Saturday was our final ball. What about our finishing and the fact that our central defenders were nowhere to be seen when McLeod ran onto the long ball over the top? There are many people who are not fans of Cooper. This sort of attitude to defeat will give them more ammunition.

By the way, I agree entirely with your assessment of the task he faces. Whoever is in charge will struggle every season if he has to keep patching up holes.
I am not a fan Den and to be fair due to the guys obnoxious arrogance probably never will be, but I accept the challenge we face at the moment and the circumstances in which he is working, but I agree with you, thats part of what I dislike about the bloke.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: I am not a fan of Cooper and never have been, but you can't blame him for Saturday, we dominated the game, had more shots and efforts but one decision whether it was right or wrong is debatable, but what concerns me is that it came from a long punt over the top again, anybody who was at the Scunny game will know how dodgy we looked when Scunny played a straight ball over the top. For me we are waiting on Stevens coming in, he will then play in the middle with Nathan on the right and Turnbull on the left, that will look a lot more balanced, 3 at the back is here to stay lads so lets get used to it. I wasn't at Crawley, but Pals who were said we should have won the game and played well even with 10 men. As I said I am not a MC fan, but what else can he do, we have a threadbare squad, very little funds available and injuries starting to mount up. Its too early in the season to start moaning, 2 from three games is a good return and frankly for me if we finish in the top half of the season he would have done a good job.[/p][/quote]ITYL, unlike you I do speak as a Cooper fan. I think he's done a great job so far. Saturday's defeat is not the end of the world. I just wish the manager would accept it with good grace and look at the real reasons instead of blaming the ref. He said after the game that the only thing he could fault on Saturday was our final ball. What about our finishing and the fact that our central defenders were nowhere to be seen when McLeod ran onto the long ball over the top? There are many people who are not fans of Cooper. This sort of attitude to defeat will give them more ammunition. By the way, I agree entirely with your assessment of the task he faces. Whoever is in charge will struggle every season if he has to keep patching up holes.[/p][/quote]I am not a fan Den and to be fair due to the guys obnoxious arrogance probably never will be, but I accept the challenge we face at the moment and the circumstances in which he is working, but I agree with you, thats part of what I dislike about the bloke. Is that you Lovesey
  • Score: -1

2:12pm Mon 18 Aug 14

old town robin says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
I am not a fan of Cooper and never have been, but you can't blame him for Saturday, we dominated the game, had more shots and efforts but one decision whether it was right or wrong is debatable, but what concerns me is that it came from a long punt over the top again, anybody who was at the Scunny game will know how dodgy we looked when Scunny played a straight ball over the top.

For me we are waiting on Stevens coming in, he will then play in the middle with Nathan on the right and Turnbull on the left, that will look a lot more balanced, 3 at the back is here to stay lads so lets get used to it.

I wasn't at Crawley, but Pals who were said we should have won the game and played well even with 10 men.

As I said I am not a MC fan, but what else can he do, we have a threadbare squad, very little funds available and injuries starting to mount up.

Its too early in the season to start moaning, 2 from three games is a good return and frankly for me if we finish in the top half of the season he would have done a good job.
Lovesey,

Understand where you are coming from that ultimately it's the players that are responsible for gettingresults, but don't agree with you that Cooper shouldn't carry his share of the blame. All 3 teams we have played have tried the same tactic of hoofing the ball down the middle over the top of our high line defence, Saturday it came from the goalie punting a long ball for god sake. This has resulted in us conceding 3 goals, surely if the coach knows it's our Achilles heel and hasn't set up his defensive tactics to combat this, then he has to carry an element of blame. Add to this he does not seem to have done anything about improving our discipline and his changes moving Branco (probably one of our taller defenders)to the right wing whilst leaving a short right footed left back to cope would seem to me to be a very strange decision.

I am also not one of his fans, but at this moment of time in no way am I advocating changes, I find some of his decisions questionable and accept he is along way from being the right person to take us into the Championship and he definitely is not irreplaceable. As said every game we play he does have responsibility and he needs to man up, accept it instead of making endless excuses, that is why there is such a high level of turnover of manager/coaches, it's a result driven business and at the moment I would say he is relatively safe with the backing of the chairman, the players and probably most of the fans.

Too early to form any real conclusions, but one would expect him to learn from his mistakes and every time we concede goals like we have to date questions will be asked of his nous.
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: I am not a fan of Cooper and never have been, but you can't blame him for Saturday, we dominated the game, had more shots and efforts but one decision whether it was right or wrong is debatable, but what concerns me is that it came from a long punt over the top again, anybody who was at the Scunny game will know how dodgy we looked when Scunny played a straight ball over the top. For me we are waiting on Stevens coming in, he will then play in the middle with Nathan on the right and Turnbull on the left, that will look a lot more balanced, 3 at the back is here to stay lads so lets get used to it. I wasn't at Crawley, but Pals who were said we should have won the game and played well even with 10 men. As I said I am not a MC fan, but what else can he do, we have a threadbare squad, very little funds available and injuries starting to mount up. Its too early in the season to start moaning, 2 from three games is a good return and frankly for me if we finish in the top half of the season he would have done a good job.[/p][/quote]Lovesey, Understand where you are coming from that ultimately it's the players that are responsible for gettingresults, but don't agree with you that Cooper shouldn't carry his share of the blame. All 3 teams we have played have tried the same tactic of hoofing the ball down the middle over the top of our high line defence, Saturday it came from the goalie punting a long ball for god sake. This has resulted in us conceding 3 goals, surely if the coach knows it's our Achilles heel and hasn't set up his defensive tactics to combat this, then he has to carry an element of blame. Add to this he does not seem to have done anything about improving our discipline and his changes moving Branco (probably one of our taller defenders)to the right wing whilst leaving a short right footed left back to cope would seem to me to be a very strange decision. I am also not one of his fans, but at this moment of time in no way am I advocating changes, I find some of his decisions questionable and accept he is along way from being the right person to take us into the Championship and he definitely is not irreplaceable. As said every game we play he does have responsibility and he needs to man up, accept it instead of making endless excuses, that is why there is such a high level of turnover of manager/coaches, it's a result driven business and at the moment I would say he is relatively safe with the backing of the chairman, the players and probably most of the fans. Too early to form any real conclusions, but one would expect him to learn from his mistakes and every time we concede goals like we have to date questions will be asked of his nous. old town robin
  • Score: 0

2:13pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Cleuso says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
Den... the ref may have had a good view of it, but from 40 yards plus away, the final judgement was on pure guesswork..he had no idea whether Thompson played the ball or man first, unless he has binocular vision.

If you are saying that refereees have such good eyesight as to be able to determine (not interpret) a tackle from 40 yards distant, then why do they bother to run around ? They could just stand in centre circle and make all decisions from there.

Of course scoring goals and defending count, no one can deny that but I'd rather see us trying to play that way and succeed or not, than play hoofball route 1 football based on a team of giants and ball in the air a la John Beck ... even that way no one is successful every week.

Even the very best teams defend badly at times and also can fail to score in every match.. that doesn't change the overall perception of their quality.... sometimes it's just down to a bit of lady luck and the run of the ball ... 2 wins out of 3 is not a bad start given all the "issues" you portray...

Moving on, it'll be hard to get a result tomorrow....if we do, it'll be something even the best Swindon sides have failed to do over the years at Priestfield so it shouldn't be too much of a shock or cause for a meltdown of the fans faith in the side.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.[/p][/quote]Den... the ref may have had a good view of it, but from 40 yards plus away, the final judgement was on pure guesswork..he had no idea whether Thompson played the ball or man first, unless he has binocular vision. If you are saying that refereees have such good eyesight as to be able to determine (not interpret) a tackle from 40 yards distant, then why do they bother to run around ? They could just stand in centre circle and make all decisions from there. Of course scoring goals and defending count, no one can deny that but I'd rather see us trying to play that way and succeed or not, than play hoofball route 1 football based on a team of giants and ball in the air a la John Beck ... even that way no one is successful every week. Even the very best teams defend badly at times and also can fail to score in every match.. that doesn't change the overall perception of their quality.... sometimes it's just down to a bit of lady luck and the run of the ball ... 2 wins out of 3 is not a bad start given all the "issues" you portray... Moving on, it'll be hard to get a result tomorrow....if we do, it'll be something even the best Swindon sides have failed to do over the years at Priestfield so it shouldn't be too much of a shock or cause for a meltdown of the fans faith in the side. Cleuso
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Mon 18 Aug 14

old town robin says...

Den, Jock sorry to see you get thumbs down for comments that seemed to me to be very reasonable. I've posted some concerns on the Brad Smith returning article and if you have not already read it would welcome your points of view.
Den, Jock sorry to see you get thumbs down for comments that seemed to me to be very reasonable. I've posted some concerns on the Brad Smith returning article and if you have not already read it would welcome your points of view. old town robin
  • Score: -4

2:29pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Bassett Hound says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
We have won 2 out of 3 games,scored 5 goals,generally played very well particularly as 2 of the games have been away, yet reading some of the posts on here you would think we a a shambles.

Just a couple of questions -

Jockster ------- why do you mildly insult people who have a more optimistic view than you ?

Den ------- Over the past 1/2 years the officiating at the Town games has generally been so bad you wonder how they get past the assessor and in that time there have been many very controversial decisions going against the Town and I can't remember once that you have thought the ref had got it wrong, we more optimistic fans can't be wrong all the time,can we ?
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.[/p][/quote]We have won 2 out of 3 games,scored 5 goals,generally played very well particularly as 2 of the games have been away, yet reading some of the posts on here you would think we a a shambles. Just a couple of questions - Jockster ------- why do you mildly insult people who have a more optimistic view than you ? Den ------- Over the past 1/2 years the officiating at the Town games has generally been so bad you wonder how they get past the assessor and in that time there have been many very controversial decisions going against the Town and I can't remember once that you have thought the ref had got it wrong, we more optimistic fans can't be wrong all the time,can we ? Bassett Hound
  • Score: 3

2:29pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Bassett Hound says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
We have won 2 out of 3 games,scored 5 goals,generally played very well particularly as 2 of the games have been away, yet reading some of the posts on here you would think we a a shambles.

Just a couple of questions -

Jockster ------- why do you mildly insult people who have a more optimistic view than you ?

Den ------- Over the past 1/2 years the officiating at the Town games has generally been so bad you wonder how they get past the assessor and in that time there have been many very controversial decisions going against the Town and I can't remember once that you have thought the ref had got it wrong, we more optimistic fans can't be wrong all the time,can we ?
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.[/p][/quote]We have won 2 out of 3 games,scored 5 goals,generally played very well particularly as 2 of the games have been away, yet reading some of the posts on here you would think we a a shambles. Just a couple of questions - Jockster ------- why do you mildly insult people who have a more optimistic view than you ? Den ------- Over the past 1/2 years the officiating at the Town games has generally been so bad you wonder how they get past the assessor and in that time there have been many very controversial decisions going against the Town and I can't remember once that you have thought the ref had got it wrong, we more optimistic fans can't be wrong all the time,can we ? Bassett Hound
  • Score: 0

2:52pm Mon 18 Aug 14

dazzastfc says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
Great post O! Den..
Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side...
WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0..
Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club...
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.[/p][/quote]Great post O! Den.. Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side... WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0.. Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club... dazzastfc
  • Score: -5

3:15pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

Bassett, of course I accept that refs get things wrong. My initial view on Saturday was that the ref had probably made a mistake and then I remembered that tackling from behind is outlawed now (or so I believe), so on reflection I think he got it right. Refs are drawn from the same pool as you and me - human beings. I don't know why anyone thinks they shouldn't make mistakes. Overall I think they do a good job in difficult circumstances. The game is faster than it's ever been and players try to cheat them in every game. I honestly do not believe refereeing is as bad as you and others say but to be honest I'm not that bothered. Even if refs were infallible, would it make the game any better? I don't think so. Sometimes a ref makes a blunder that goes for you, sometimes it goes against you. It's all part of the game's rich tapestry. We are all in the same boat. The better sides rise above things that go against them and the poor teams struggle just as they would if there were perfection in match officials. And how we would miss the joy of screaming and shouting at refs if they were perfect!

One thing I don't quite get is what optimism has to do with a debate about referees. I think it's pretty clear that to most managers and fans the controversial decisions are always the ones that go against them. Why do we all have so little to say about the ones that go in our favour? If you mean bias rather than optimism, I think I understand what you're saying.

My basic view on it is that referees do a generally good job without being perfect and in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter much that they're not. Perfection is not only impossible to achieve; it's not even desirable and would hardly make any difference anyway.
Bassett, of course I accept that refs get things wrong. My initial view on Saturday was that the ref had probably made a mistake and then I remembered that tackling from behind is outlawed now (or so I believe), so on reflection I think he got it right. Refs are drawn from the same pool as you and me - human beings. I don't know why anyone thinks they shouldn't make mistakes. Overall I think they do a good job in difficult circumstances. The game is faster than it's ever been and players try to cheat them in every game. I honestly do not believe refereeing is as bad as you and others say but to be honest I'm not that bothered. Even if refs were infallible, would it make the game any better? I don't think so. Sometimes a ref makes a blunder that goes for you, sometimes it goes against you. It's all part of the game's rich tapestry. We are all in the same boat. The better sides rise above things that go against them and the poor teams struggle just as they would if there were perfection in match officials. And how we would miss the joy of screaming and shouting at refs if they were perfect! One thing I don't quite get is what optimism has to do with a debate about referees. I think it's pretty clear that to most managers and fans the controversial decisions are always the ones that go against them. Why do we all have so little to say about the ones that go in our favour? If you mean bias rather than optimism, I think I understand what you're saying. My basic view on it is that referees do a generally good job without being perfect and in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter much that they're not. Perfection is not only impossible to achieve; it's not even desirable and would hardly make any difference anyway. Oi Den!
  • Score: 1

3:39pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

Cleuso wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
Den... the ref may have had a good view of it, but from 40 yards plus away, the final judgement was on pure guesswork..he had no idea whether Thompson played the ball or man first, unless he has binocular vision.

If you are saying that refereees have such good eyesight as to be able to determine (not interpret) a tackle from 40 yards distant, then why do they bother to run around ? They could just stand in centre circle and make all decisions from there.

Of course scoring goals and defending count, no one can deny that but I'd rather see us trying to play that way and succeed or not, than play hoofball route 1 football based on a team of giants and ball in the air a la John Beck ... even that way no one is successful every week.

Even the very best teams defend badly at times and also can fail to score in every match.. that doesn't change the overall perception of their quality.... sometimes it's just down to a bit of lady luck and the run of the ball ... 2 wins out of 3 is not a bad start given all the "issues" you portray...

Moving on, it'll be hard to get a result tomorrow....if we do, it'll be something even the best Swindon sides have failed to do over the years at Priestfield so it shouldn't be too much of a shock or cause for a meltdown of the fans faith in the side.
Firstly Cleuso, how do you know that the ref couldn't see whether he played the ball or man first? Secondly, as far as I remember there is nothing in the rules that says playing the ball first means it can't be a foul and thirdly, tackling from behind is now outlawed isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.[/p][/quote]Den... the ref may have had a good view of it, but from 40 yards plus away, the final judgement was on pure guesswork..he had no idea whether Thompson played the ball or man first, unless he has binocular vision. If you are saying that refereees have such good eyesight as to be able to determine (not interpret) a tackle from 40 yards distant, then why do they bother to run around ? They could just stand in centre circle and make all decisions from there. Of course scoring goals and defending count, no one can deny that but I'd rather see us trying to play that way and succeed or not, than play hoofball route 1 football based on a team of giants and ball in the air a la John Beck ... even that way no one is successful every week. Even the very best teams defend badly at times and also can fail to score in every match.. that doesn't change the overall perception of their quality.... sometimes it's just down to a bit of lady luck and the run of the ball ... 2 wins out of 3 is not a bad start given all the "issues" you portray... Moving on, it'll be hard to get a result tomorrow....if we do, it'll be something even the best Swindon sides have failed to do over the years at Priestfield so it shouldn't be too much of a shock or cause for a meltdown of the fans faith in the side.[/p][/quote]Firstly Cleuso, how do you know that the ref couldn't see whether he played the ball or man first? Secondly, as far as I remember there is nothing in the rules that says playing the ball first means it can't be a foul and thirdly, tackling from behind is now outlawed isn't it? Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

3:42pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

old town robin wrote:
Den, Jock sorry to see you get thumbs down for comments that seemed to me to be very reasonable. I've posted some concerns on the Brad Smith returning article and if you have not already read it would welcome your points of view.
OTR, I've just had a look. 100% agree.
[quote][p][bold]old town robin[/bold] wrote: Den, Jock sorry to see you get thumbs down for comments that seemed to me to be very reasonable. I've posted some concerns on the Brad Smith returning article and if you have not already read it would welcome your points of view.[/p][/quote]OTR, I've just had a look. 100% agree. Oi Den!
  • Score: -1

4:42pm Mon 18 Aug 14

akershaker says...

dazzastfc wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
Great post O! Den..
Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side...
WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0..
Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club...
You can be the better team and lose. You see it every week. To take an extreme example, you sometimes see a non-league team put 11 men behind the ball in the 3rd round of the cup, play hoofball, get one lucky break and beat a premier league team. That doesn't mean they are a better team or that they would finish above that side if they were in the PL. It's just football and why we love it.
The importance of the stats is that they suggest that we have the ability to win games. No team wins every game, we have won 2 out of 3. Every team has issues to try and solve, there's just no need to be so negative and constantly focus on the bad points.
[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.[/p][/quote]Great post O! Den.. Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side... WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0.. Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club...[/p][/quote]You can be the better team and lose. You see it every week. To take an extreme example, you sometimes see a non-league team put 11 men behind the ball in the 3rd round of the cup, play hoofball, get one lucky break and beat a premier league team. That doesn't mean they are a better team or that they would finish above that side if they were in the PL. It's just football and why we love it. The importance of the stats is that they suggest that we have the ability to win games. No team wins every game, we have won 2 out of 3. Every team has issues to try and solve, there's just no need to be so negative and constantly focus on the bad points. akershaker
  • Score: 1

5:04pm Mon 18 Aug 14

the don69 says...

dazzastfc wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
Great post O! Den..
Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side...
WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0..
Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club...
What p1ssed me off about the pen, was the lineo was in perfect position and there was no flag from him, the ref guessed from where he was! but if you don't score goals when dominating football matches, it very nearly always comes back to bite you! lets see how we perform in our next very tough away game at the Gills???????
[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.[/p][/quote]Great post O! Den.. Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side... WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0.. Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club...[/p][/quote]What p1ssed me off about the pen, was the lineo was in perfect position and there was no flag from him, the ref guessed from where he was! but if you don't score goals when dominating football matches, it very nearly always comes back to bite you! lets see how we perform in our next very tough away game at the Gills??????? the don69
  • Score: 4

5:28pm Mon 18 Aug 14

The Jockster says...

Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ? The Jockster
  • Score: 0

5:32pm Mon 18 Aug 14

dazzastfc says...

akershaker wrote:
dazzastfc wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
Great post O! Den..
Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side...
WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0..
Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club...
You can be the better team and lose. You see it every week. To take an extreme example, you sometimes see a non-league team put 11 men behind the ball in the 3rd round of the cup, play hoofball, get one lucky break and beat a premier league team. That doesn't mean they are a better team or that they would finish above that side if they were in the PL. It's just football and why we love it.
The importance of the stats is that they suggest that we have the ability to win games. No team wins every game, we have won 2 out of 3. Every team has issues to try and solve, there's just no need to be so negative and constantly focus on the bad points.
So on the day that team who win NO MATTER WHAT THE STATES ARE are better as they are through to the next round..SIMPLE
Just like last time we lost 4.0 to Macclesfield..were we the better team on the day or is that different because it happened to STFC..

As YOU said states say we had the chances to win BUT WE NEVER AND ON THE DAY WE LOST..There is no coming second in a 2 horse race is there
[quote][p][bold]akershaker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.[/p][/quote]Great post O! Den.. Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side... WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0.. Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club...[/p][/quote]You can be the better team and lose. You see it every week. To take an extreme example, you sometimes see a non-league team put 11 men behind the ball in the 3rd round of the cup, play hoofball, get one lucky break and beat a premier league team. That doesn't mean they are a better team or that they would finish above that side if they were in the PL. It's just football and why we love it. The importance of the stats is that they suggest that we have the ability to win games. No team wins every game, we have won 2 out of 3. Every team has issues to try and solve, there's just no need to be so negative and constantly focus on the bad points.[/p][/quote]So on the day that team who win NO MATTER WHAT THE STATES ARE are better as they are through to the next round..SIMPLE Just like last time we lost 4.0 to Macclesfield..were we the better team on the day or is that different because it happened to STFC.. As YOU said states say we had the chances to win BUT WE NEVER AND ON THE DAY WE LOST..There is no coming second in a 2 horse race is there dazzastfc
  • Score: 0

5:40pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Wilesy says...

Stephens unlikely to join and we will pursue other targets......

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/sport/0/football/28
837356
Stephens unlikely to join and we will pursue other targets...... http://www.bbc.co.uk /sport/0/football/28 837356 Wilesy
  • Score: 0

5:46pm Mon 18 Aug 14

The Jockster says...

old town robin wrote:
Den, Jock sorry to see you get thumbs down for comments that seemed to me to be very reasonable. I've posted some concerns on the Brad Smith returning article and if you have not already read it would welcome your points of view.
OTR entirely agree that all too often 3-5-2 leads us nowhere fast & Crawley was again a perfect example, no amount of possession or dominance borne out by attempts on goal 26 on Saturday I understand with only 7 on target apparently will win games unless somebody sticks a couple in the onion bag.
It's also a system that often falls down in the final third and we simply have to find an alternative way forward when other teams park the bus.
I'm amazed that there are so many fans that are prepared to accept it without question and are convinced that it's the only way to play. Not me I'm afraid I'm for mixing it up sometimes instead of doggedly persevering even when it's clearly not happening.
[quote][p][bold]old town robin[/bold] wrote: Den, Jock sorry to see you get thumbs down for comments that seemed to me to be very reasonable. I've posted some concerns on the Brad Smith returning article and if you have not already read it would welcome your points of view.[/p][/quote]OTR entirely agree that all too often 3-5-2 leads us nowhere fast & Crawley was again a perfect example, no amount of possession or dominance borne out by attempts on goal 26 on Saturday I understand with only 7 on target apparently will win games unless somebody sticks a couple in the onion bag. It's also a system that often falls down in the final third and we simply have to find an alternative way forward when other teams park the bus. I'm amazed that there are so many fans that are prepared to accept it without question and are convinced that it's the only way to play. Not me I'm afraid I'm for mixing it up sometimes instead of doggedly persevering even when it's clearly not happening. The Jockster
  • Score: 0

6:20pm Mon 18 Aug 14

smirg kcab says...

I wonder if cooper has sat down all the team and drummed it into them the rivalry against the pikeys?.
I doubt it
Hope we can put Saturdays shambolic result behind us and we beat the pikeys,
No excuses don't forget we are only young
I wonder if cooper has sat down all the team and drummed it into them the rivalry against the pikeys?. I doubt it Hope we can put Saturdays shambolic result behind us and we beat the pikeys, No excuses don't forget we are only young smirg kcab
  • Score: 1

6:28pm Mon 18 Aug 14

mancrobin says...

The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
I'm ok with those alternatives Jock, as long as we can use dogmatic, patronising, boorish, and obnoxious?
[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]I'm ok with those alternatives Jock, as long as we can use dogmatic, patronising, boorish, and obnoxious? mancrobin
  • Score: 2

6:30pm Mon 18 Aug 14

mancrobin says...

harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
As Den has already pointed out Harley, we always get good refs. I just wish the fans would sing about it a bit more.
[quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]As Den has already pointed out Harley, we always get good refs. I just wish the fans would sing about it a bit more. mancrobin
  • Score: 0

6:53pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Cleuso says...

The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it.

Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style.

Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote

Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker.

And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see..

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it. Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style. Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker. And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see.. Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows: Direct free kick A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent • trips or attempts to trip an opponent • jumps at an opponent • charges an opponent • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent • pushes an opponent • tackles an opponent Cleuso
  • Score: -2

7:19pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

mancrobin wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
As Den has already pointed out Harley, we always get good refs. I just wish the fans would sing about it a bit more.
Don't be so mischievous manc! If it pleases you I'll accept that we always get sh1t refs. You realise, of course, this means all teams always get sh1t refs, so we're at no disadvantage. That's unless you're of the view that there's some dastardly anti-Town conspiracy amongst those nasty men in black.
[quote][p][bold]mancrobin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]As Den has already pointed out Harley, we always get good refs. I just wish the fans would sing about it a bit more.[/p][/quote]Don't be so mischievous manc! If it pleases you I'll accept that we always get sh1t refs. You realise, of course, this means all teams always get sh1t refs, so we're at no disadvantage. That's unless you're of the view that there's some dastardly anti-Town conspiracy amongst those nasty men in black. Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

7:28pm Mon 18 Aug 14

dazzastfc says...

Cleuso wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it.

Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style.

Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote

Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker.

And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see..

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
A foul is a foul these days and the ref gave a pen from say 35 yards that would workout to be the halfway line to the 18 yard box,,

At the end of the Day if it was for Swindon and it got turned down EVERYONE ON HERE would be saying we always get sh!t refs and it was a defiantly a penalty...
The lines man and refs are wired up to each other so a flag is not always kneaded.
[quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it. Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style. Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker. And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see.. Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows: Direct free kick A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent • trips or attempts to trip an opponent • jumps at an opponent • charges an opponent • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent • pushes an opponent • tackles an opponent[/p][/quote]A foul is a foul these days and the ref gave a pen from say 35 yards that would workout to be the halfway line to the 18 yard box,, At the end of the Day if it was for Swindon and it got turned down EVERYONE ON HERE would be saying we always get sh!t refs and it was a defiantly a penalty... The lines man and refs are wired up to each other so a flag is not always kneaded. dazzastfc
  • Score: 0

7:41pm Mon 18 Aug 14

mancrobin says...

Oi Den! wrote:
mancrobin wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
As Den has already pointed out Harley, we always get good refs. I just wish the fans would sing about it a bit more.
Don't be so mischievous manc! If it pleases you I'll accept that we always get sh1t refs. You realise, of course, this means all teams always get sh1t refs, so we're at no disadvantage. That's unless you're of the view that there's some dastardly anti-Town conspiracy amongst those nasty men in black.
Sorry, Just having a laugh Den. I agree, a good or bad ref affects both teams and I've seen us get away with murder on a few occasions. Have also rarely subscribed to the 'homer' theories although there must be times when that's been the case, along with influential managers playing mind games. Not likely to happen in League 1.

The song "We always get sh1t refs" has special meaning for me as it was the one my daughters latched on to at their first game. That's why we've always sang the opposite to avoid bad language!
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mancrobin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]As Den has already pointed out Harley, we always get good refs. I just wish the fans would sing about it a bit more.[/p][/quote]Don't be so mischievous manc! If it pleases you I'll accept that we always get sh1t refs. You realise, of course, this means all teams always get sh1t refs, so we're at no disadvantage. That's unless you're of the view that there's some dastardly anti-Town conspiracy amongst those nasty men in black.[/p][/quote]Sorry, Just having a laugh Den. I agree, a good or bad ref affects both teams and I've seen us get away with murder on a few occasions. Have also rarely subscribed to the 'homer' theories although there must be times when that's been the case, along with influential managers playing mind games. Not likely to happen in League 1. The song "We always get sh1t refs" has special meaning for me as it was the one my daughters latched on to at their first game. That's why we've always sang the opposite to avoid bad language! mancrobin
  • Score: 1

9:36pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

Cleuso wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it.

Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style.

Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote

Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker.

And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see..

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.
[quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it. Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style. Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker. And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see.. Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows: Direct free kick A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent • trips or attempts to trip an opponent • jumps at an opponent • charges an opponent • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent • pushes an opponent • tackles an opponent[/p][/quote]Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman. Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

10:33pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Cleuso says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it.

Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style.

Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote

Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker.

And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see..

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.
Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind.

If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind.

If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet.

I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ?

Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it. Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style. Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker. And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see.. Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows: Direct free kick A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent • trips or attempts to trip an opponent • jumps at an opponent • charges an opponent • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent • pushes an opponent • tackles an opponent[/p][/quote]Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.[/p][/quote]Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind. If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind. If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet. I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ? Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow Cleuso
  • Score: 0

11:35pm Mon 18 Aug 14

The Jockster says...

mancrobin wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
I'm ok with those alternatives Jock, as long as we can use dogmatic, patronising, boorish, and obnoxious?
Manc you can use whatever floats your boat - what is it they say sticks and stones etc.
[quote][p][bold]mancrobin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]I'm ok with those alternatives Jock, as long as we can use dogmatic, patronising, boorish, and obnoxious?[/p][/quote]Manc you can use whatever floats your boat - what is it they say sticks and stones etc. The Jockster
  • Score: 1

11:37pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Wilesy says...

Oi Den! wrote:
mancrobin wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
As Den has already pointed out Harley, we always get good refs. I just wish the fans would sing about it a bit more.
Don't be so mischievous manc! If it pleases you I'll accept that we always get sh1t refs. You realise, of course, this means all teams always get sh1t refs, so we're at no disadvantage. That's unless you're of the view that there's some dastardly anti-Town conspiracy amongst those nasty men in black.
You can normally tell when the ref's made a poor call when a) Cooper is particularly outspoken, and b) the opposition management makes comments like 'It’s difficult to say. it’s difficult for the ref, he trying to catch things up, as such, and he makes a call that he feels is right on the day'

If I was the ref think I would have consulted the lino and if he says no pen then not given it.

But as ever it evens out over the season and we did have a few chances to score....
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mancrobin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]As Den has already pointed out Harley, we always get good refs. I just wish the fans would sing about it a bit more.[/p][/quote]Don't be so mischievous manc! If it pleases you I'll accept that we always get sh1t refs. You realise, of course, this means all teams always get sh1t refs, so we're at no disadvantage. That's unless you're of the view that there's some dastardly anti-Town conspiracy amongst those nasty men in black.[/p][/quote]You can normally tell when the ref's made a poor call when a) Cooper is particularly outspoken, and b) the opposition management makes comments like 'It’s difficult to say. it’s difficult for the ref, he trying to catch things up, as such, and he makes a call that he feels is right on the day' If I was the ref think I would have consulted the lino and if he says no pen then not given it. But as ever it evens out over the season and we did have a few chances to score.... Wilesy
  • Score: 0

11:40pm Mon 18 Aug 14

akershaker says...

dazzastfc wrote:
akershaker wrote:
dazzastfc wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
harley red wrote:
We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!!
Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take.

Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered.

The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three.

We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.
"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done?

It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it?

Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him?

Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat.

We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.
Great post O! Den..
Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side...
WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0..
Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club...
You can be the better team and lose. You see it every week. To take an extreme example, you sometimes see a non-league team put 11 men behind the ball in the 3rd round of the cup, play hoofball, get one lucky break and beat a premier league team. That doesn't mean they are a better team or that they would finish above that side if they were in the PL. It's just football and why we love it.
The importance of the stats is that they suggest that we have the ability to win games. No team wins every game, we have won 2 out of 3. Every team has issues to try and solve, there's just no need to be so negative and constantly focus on the bad points.
So on the day that team who win NO MATTER WHAT THE STATES ARE are better as they are through to the next round..SIMPLE
Just like last time we lost 4.0 to Macclesfield..were we the better team on the day or is that different because it happened to STFC..

As YOU said states say we had the chances to win BUT WE NEVER AND ON THE DAY WE LOST..There is no coming second in a 2 horse race is there
Ok then, it depends if you look at one game or a season. We lost something like 5 of the first 6 games in the season we won League 2 as Champions. I would still say the signs were there in those opening games that we had the potential and I would call that a successful season.
Obviously, if you lose you lose and if you win you win. You won't get a job on Match of the Day for that. However, if you are creating chances and keeping possession it gives a lot of fans more confidence that the team will go on to win a number of games this season, better than if we'd been pegged back in our own half for 90 mins and had 1 shot on goal all game.
[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]akershaker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]harley red[/bold] wrote: We need to learn to accept that the refs are poor in this league , and get more ruthless in front of goal as goals scored wins games , not bloody possession . Wake up cooper sort it out and less of this siht tip tap crap !!![/p][/quote]Hardly red : Will you just realise that Cooper is staying despite your continual gripes. Even Di Canio in all his perceived pomp did not achieve, the quality, domination of opposition away from home that the Town had on Saturday by whatever statistic you care to take. Far better this way than continual hoofball. Get behind the team and it's stylish football, results will come..2 out of 3 is not a bad start all things considered. The decision that changed the game on Saturday was pure guesswork from afar from the referee, no doubt based on constant replays given during their refereeing training sessions on interpretation, nothing else. If it hadn't been for that we could well have had point, if not all three. We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that and support the team next time out, which is Tuesday if you didn't know.[/p][/quote]"We are not going to win every game for one reason or another so just accept that..." Or blame the referee, like you have done? It's quite possible that the ref had a very good view of that incident on Saturday. To whinge about a probably correct refereeing decision on the basis that he got it right but it might have been a lucky guess is pathetic. That is taking the fixation with referees to a new level altogether. What about giving the bloke some credit for getting it right and being strong enough to give it as he saw it? Isn't it a bit odd that Town fans had a good view of an incident happening 100 yards away last Tuesday and yet it's presumed that a ref hasn't got a decent view of something that's about half that distance from him? Cleuso, you - along with Cooper and all the other self deluders - need to get real and accept that the referee wasn't the cause of our defeat on Saturday. We lost because we couldn't score any goals and we were naive yet again at the back. However, if you really must question the referee why are you not raising the subject of a possible penalty for a foul by Nathan Thompson? Could that not also have been "the decision that changed the game"? No, let's pick one incident and use it to blame someone else for our defeat. We don't need to keep being told we were the better side, dominated the ball etc. We know that we will LOOK the better side in most games this season. But looking the better side and having the lion's share of possession is not BEING the better side and it isn't going to win any points on its own. We need to score more goals than the opposition to do that. I sometimes wonder whether Cooper and Power have forgotten that this is the object of the game. All we ever seem to hear is about the "way we want to do things". I'd rather hear about the way we plan to build a team that's good enough and strong enough not to need to look for excuses.[/p][/quote]Great post O! Den.. Some fans do make me laugh when they say STFC was the better side... WELL SORRY CHAPS WE WERE NOT AS WE LOST 1.0.. Possession and states mean nothing and the sooner cooper and power realise this the better BUT all they seam to worry about is playing pretty football to attract other club...[/p][/quote]You can be the better team and lose. You see it every week. To take an extreme example, you sometimes see a non-league team put 11 men behind the ball in the 3rd round of the cup, play hoofball, get one lucky break and beat a premier league team. That doesn't mean they are a better team or that they would finish above that side if they were in the PL. It's just football and why we love it. The importance of the stats is that they suggest that we have the ability to win games. No team wins every game, we have won 2 out of 3. Every team has issues to try and solve, there's just no need to be so negative and constantly focus on the bad points.[/p][/quote]So on the day that team who win NO MATTER WHAT THE STATES ARE are better as they are through to the next round..SIMPLE Just like last time we lost 4.0 to Macclesfield..were we the better team on the day or is that different because it happened to STFC.. As YOU said states say we had the chances to win BUT WE NEVER AND ON THE DAY WE LOST..There is no coming second in a 2 horse race is there[/p][/quote]Ok then, it depends if you look at one game or a season. We lost something like 5 of the first 6 games in the season we won League 2 as Champions. I would still say the signs were there in those opening games that we had the potential and I would call that a successful season. Obviously, if you lose you lose and if you win you win. You won't get a job on Match of the Day for that. However, if you are creating chances and keeping possession it gives a lot of fans more confidence that the team will go on to win a number of games this season, better than if we'd been pegged back in our own half for 90 mins and had 1 shot on goal all game. akershaker
  • Score: 0

11:54pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Cleuso says...

Cleuso wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it.

Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style.

Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote

Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker.

And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see..

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.
Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind.

If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind.

If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet.

I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ?

Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow
Just checked the FA site... 1 game ban
[quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it. Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style. Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker. And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see.. Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows: Direct free kick A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent • trips or attempts to trip an opponent • jumps at an opponent • charges an opponent • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent • pushes an opponent • tackles an opponent[/p][/quote]Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.[/p][/quote]Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind. If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind. If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet. I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ? Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow[/p][/quote]Just checked the FA site... 1 game ban Cleuso
  • Score: 0

12:17am Tue 19 Aug 14

Oxon-Red says...

Doomsters and Happy Clappers !

Ref's right, Ref's wrong. Ref may have got the penalty right but was the Red Card correct ? Last player ? Byrne is behind Louis when he makes the challenge. Not there but did the Ref check this with his assistant ? Poor decision IMO (not the penalty as I cannot judge from the TV coverage, Wes would have had the perfect view).

3-5-2, balls over the top needs work but I would suggest that the 26 attempts on goal were a result of the formation. Perhaps we should have played 4-6-0 like last season.

Three games in, new system, give it a chance to bed in. We may get caught by the long ball over the top but there is no fail-safe against good play from the opponents and they will always create chances regardless of the formation we play. We didn't score on Saturday, it happens, but I feel we will score plenty this season (and concede). Looking forward to the entertainment.

COYMR
Doomsters and Happy Clappers ! Ref's right, Ref's wrong. Ref may have got the penalty right but was the Red Card correct ? Last player ? Byrne is behind Louis when he makes the challenge. Not there but did the Ref check this with his assistant ? Poor decision IMO (not the penalty as I cannot judge from the TV coverage, Wes would have had the perfect view). 3-5-2, balls over the top needs work but I would suggest that the 26 attempts on goal were a result of the formation. Perhaps we should have played 4-6-0 like last season. Three games in, new system, give it a chance to bed in. We may get caught by the long ball over the top but there is no fail-safe against good play from the opponents and they will always create chances regardless of the formation we play. We didn't score on Saturday, it happens, but I feel we will score plenty this season (and concede). Looking forward to the entertainment. COYMR Oxon-Red
  • Score: 0

7:53am Tue 19 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

Cleuso wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it.

Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style.

Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote

Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker.

And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see..

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.
Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind.

If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind.

If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet.

I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ?

Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow
"Embarrassed to be so far behind the play"? From a missile launched from the other end of the pitch? Now you're suggesting he should be in two places at once. Look at the bottom line Cleuso. The club has said it's not going to appeal. That proves all the bluster was nothing more than looking for an excuse.

There must be some current referees reading this who know what the guidance is on tackling from behind. Can anyone throw some light on it? I know what information is available online but is there anything else? I thought they'd been told to penalise it because of the risks involved if it's not executed with perfect timing (as Thompson's may have been).
[quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it. Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style. Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker. And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see.. Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows: Direct free kick A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent • trips or attempts to trip an opponent • jumps at an opponent • charges an opponent • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent • pushes an opponent • tackles an opponent[/p][/quote]Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.[/p][/quote]Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind. If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind. If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet. I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ? Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow[/p][/quote]"Embarrassed to be so far behind the play"? From a missile launched from the other end of the pitch? Now you're suggesting he should be in two places at once. Look at the bottom line Cleuso. The club has said it's not going to appeal. That proves all the bluster was nothing more than looking for an excuse. There must be some current referees reading this who know what the guidance is on tackling from behind. Can anyone throw some light on it? I know what information is available online but is there anything else? I thought they'd been told to penalise it because of the risks involved if it's not executed with perfect timing (as Thompson's may have been). Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

8:29am Tue 19 Aug 14

The Jockster says...

Oxon 26 attempts on goal only 7 on target just shows up our poor finishing IMO.
Oxon 26 attempts on goal only 7 on target just shows up our poor finishing IMO. The Jockster
  • Score: 1

9:34am Tue 19 Aug 14

Cleuso says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it.

Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style.

Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote

Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker.

And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see..

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.
Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind.

If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind.

If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet.

I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ?

Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow
"Embarrassed to be so far behind the play"? From a missile launched from the other end of the pitch? Now you're suggesting he should be in two places at once. Look at the bottom line Cleuso. The club has said it's not going to appeal. That proves all the bluster was nothing more than looking for an excuse.

There must be some current referees reading this who know what the guidance is on tackling from behind. Can anyone throw some light on it? I know what information is available online but is there anything else? I thought they'd been told to penalise it because of the risks involved if it's not executed with perfect timing (as Thompson's may have been).
No matter what any local referees opinion is, it is the laws of the game that should be applied otherwise the whole game becomes a lottery with referees making it up as they go along based on "popular" opinion.

If they included penalising a tackle from behind in the laws, it would be a foul. They don't , so it shouldn't, unless it comes under the "force" proviso's, which this didn't.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it. Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style. Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker. And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see.. Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows: Direct free kick A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent • trips or attempts to trip an opponent • jumps at an opponent • charges an opponent • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent • pushes an opponent • tackles an opponent[/p][/quote]Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.[/p][/quote]Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind. If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind. If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet. I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ? Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow[/p][/quote]"Embarrassed to be so far behind the play"? From a missile launched from the other end of the pitch? Now you're suggesting he should be in two places at once. Look at the bottom line Cleuso. The club has said it's not going to appeal. That proves all the bluster was nothing more than looking for an excuse. There must be some current referees reading this who know what the guidance is on tackling from behind. Can anyone throw some light on it? I know what information is available online but is there anything else? I thought they'd been told to penalise it because of the risks involved if it's not executed with perfect timing (as Thompson's may have been).[/p][/quote]No matter what any local referees opinion is, it is the laws of the game that should be applied otherwise the whole game becomes a lottery with referees making it up as they go along based on "popular" opinion. If they included penalising a tackle from behind in the laws, it would be a foul. They don't , so it shouldn't, unless it comes under the "force" proviso's, which this didn't. Cleuso
  • Score: 0

9:53am Tue 19 Aug 14

Oxon-Red says...

The Jockster wrote:
Oxon 26 attempts on goal only 7 on target just shows up our poor finishing IMO.
Possibly but your reply illustrates the whole Happy Clapper/Doomster saga.

You have concentrated on the number on target and not looked at the positive that we found ourselves in the position to have a strike on goal. Roughly once every 3 minutes.

It was disappointing not to score but if we continue to create that many chances we should be richly entertained this season.

COYMR
[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Oxon 26 attempts on goal only 7 on target just shows up our poor finishing IMO.[/p][/quote]Possibly but your reply illustrates the whole Happy Clapper/Doomster saga. You have concentrated on the number on target and not looked at the positive that we found ourselves in the position to have a strike on goal. Roughly once every 3 minutes. It was disappointing not to score but if we continue to create that many chances we should be richly entertained this season. COYMR Oxon-Red
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

Cleuso wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Cleuso wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them.
Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day?
OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread.
ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?
Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it.

Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style.

Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote

Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker.

And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see..

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• jumps at an opponent
• charges an opponent
• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• pushes an opponent
• tackles an opponent
Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.
Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind.

If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind.

If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet.

I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ?

Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow
"Embarrassed to be so far behind the play"? From a missile launched from the other end of the pitch? Now you're suggesting he should be in two places at once. Look at the bottom line Cleuso. The club has said it's not going to appeal. That proves all the bluster was nothing more than looking for an excuse.

There must be some current referees reading this who know what the guidance is on tackling from behind. Can anyone throw some light on it? I know what information is available online but is there anything else? I thought they'd been told to penalise it because of the risks involved if it's not executed with perfect timing (as Thompson's may have been).
No matter what any local referees opinion is, it is the laws of the game that should be applied otherwise the whole game becomes a lottery with referees making it up as they go along based on "popular" opinion.

If they included penalising a tackle from behind in the laws, it would be a foul. They don't , so it shouldn't, unless it comes under the "force" proviso's, which this didn't.
Cleuso, it's got nothing to do with whether referees are local or not. It's the guidance issued to them by FIFA / the FA that I'm talking about. The laws and guidance apply at every level of the game - local, national and international. And don't forget, the words "referee's opinion" figure significantly in the laws. It's not always clear cut. The ref is there to give a decision and it won't always be to everyone's liking. Can you imagine the Town and Crawley players sorting that one out amongst themselves? You can bet your bottom dollar that Cooper would not have been saying it was a ref's decision that decided the game if it had been us getting that debatable penalty. Everyone should accept it and move on, in the knowledge that over the season we're just as likely them in our favour as against us.
[quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cleuso[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Bassett & STFCTID I'm sorry if the terms "happy clappers & rose tinters" causes you angst. Would you prefer myopic, tunnel vision, blind as a bat etc. which to me are far more offensive. To me it's just a mild term to describe the fan who can't see anything wrong with the team, owner, performance, all refs are sh!t and that they have a downer against STFC. IMO they live in a Utopia dreamworld and refuse to believe or accept a fact even when it is proven to them. Bassett- yes we've started reasonably well but in doing so we've seen more than once that there are clearly problems both in defence and attack. Surely the most optimistic fan ( there you are not rose tinted) can see that but some still get offended when others point out these issues-why when it's as plain as day? OTR - I'll have a look at your post on t'other thread. ITYL-why are you still convinced Stephens will be joining us - what's your game plan if he doesn't ?[/p][/quote]Utopia ... ha ha ! isn't that what you demand...never satisfied unless there are no mistakes , perfect attack, perfect defence, perfection in passing, win everything, score loads of goals and never concede .... perfect manager who always makes the decisions you are comfortable with and would make yourself... and only play the players you choose should ever be in the team... guess that's your idea of Utopia... I'll tell you that position will never happen, you'll just have to get used to it. Others can accept their own views or opinions may not be fully represented with decisions and performances may not be always in our favour but can still support the team 100 % and not sound off about this or that or write here in a continually critical and negative style. Incidentally , Sam M I see, has made his views on the penalty incident .. quote Just caught up with Saturday's highlights. Looked like lino in perfect place to judge pen/red. No flag. Referee had to be guessing. Stinker. And Den... tackling from behind has not been outlawed... it's a commentators myth ... FIFA's laws below and nothing in "guidance" to those laws as far as I can see.. Fouls and misconduct are penalised as follows: Direct free kick A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent • trips or attempts to trip an opponent • jumps at an opponent • charges an opponent • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent • pushes an opponent • tackles an opponent[/p][/quote]Cleuso, that was pretty much my understanding but I thought the tackle from behind was now in the careless or reckless category. If the ref has made an obvious mistake the club should appeal and the red card will be overturned. I still can't believe he was guessing though. Why would any ref want to risk his progress in the game by guessing, when he had the chance to consult a colleague who had a better view? Surely it's in his own interests to give himself the best chance of a correct decision. Love 'em or loathe 'em, the officials work as close-knit teams and they all want to get to the top, just like players. I'd suggest that the ref was either confident that he'd seen it clearly or he'd had some communication from the linesman.[/p][/quote]Or was embarrassed to be so far behind the play and got confused to give what he thought he saw because maybe he believed you can't tackle from behind although the still picture shows Thompson coming in as much from the side as behind. If it is termed careless or reckless it is a made up "local " rule as nothing in FIFA laws or their interpretations suggests you can't tackle from behind. If the referee deemed it careless, reckless or using excess force maybe there is a point but from so far away judging that must have been based on less than a seconds thought and not thinking clearly as the tackle was certainly not that, by any estimation. If the ban is only 1 game it would suggest it was neither of those 3.... not heard anything on that yet. I would suggest as his colleague was much closer it was imperitive to consult him as guidance in the laws suggests. If the lino had said no pen do you think he would have been bold enough to change his decision ? Anyway, it is too late to worry about now , hopefully the boys might pinch at least a point tomorrow[/p][/quote]"Embarrassed to be so far behind the play"? From a missile launched from the other end of the pitch? Now you're suggesting he should be in two places at once. Look at the bottom line Cleuso. The club has said it's not going to appeal. That proves all the bluster was nothing more than looking for an excuse. There must be some current referees reading this who know what the guidance is on tackling from behind. Can anyone throw some light on it? I know what information is available online but is there anything else? I thought they'd been told to penalise it because of the risks involved if it's not executed with perfect timing (as Thompson's may have been).[/p][/quote]No matter what any local referees opinion is, it is the laws of the game that should be applied otherwise the whole game becomes a lottery with referees making it up as they go along based on "popular" opinion. If they included penalising a tackle from behind in the laws, it would be a foul. They don't , so it shouldn't, unless it comes under the "force" proviso's, which this didn't.[/p][/quote]Cleuso, it's got nothing to do with whether referees are local or not. It's the guidance issued to them by FIFA / the FA that I'm talking about. The laws and guidance apply at every level of the game - local, national and international. And don't forget, the words "referee's opinion" figure significantly in the laws. It's not always clear cut. The ref is there to give a decision and it won't always be to everyone's liking. Can you imagine the Town and Crawley players sorting that one out amongst themselves? You can bet your bottom dollar that Cooper would not have been saying it was a ref's decision that decided the game if it had been us getting that debatable penalty. Everyone should accept it and move on, in the knowledge that over the season we're just as likely them in our favour as against us. Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

12:16pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Oi Den! says...

... as likely "to get them" in our favour...
... as likely "to get them" in our favour... Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

2:21pm Tue 19 Aug 14

The Jockster says...

Oxon-Red wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Oxon 26 attempts on goal only 7 on target just shows up our poor finishing IMO.
Possibly but your reply illustrates the whole Happy Clapper/Doomster saga.

You have concentrated on the number on target and not looked at the positive that we found ourselves in the position to have a strike on goal. Roughly once every 3 minutes.

It was disappointing not to score but if we continue to create that many chances we should be richly entertained this season.

COYMR
Only if Smithy & Wilma show they can hit the onion bag- yes for the former no chance for the latter!
[quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Oxon 26 attempts on goal only 7 on target just shows up our poor finishing IMO.[/p][/quote]Possibly but your reply illustrates the whole Happy Clapper/Doomster saga. You have concentrated on the number on target and not looked at the positive that we found ourselves in the position to have a strike on goal. Roughly once every 3 minutes. It was disappointing not to score but if we continue to create that many chances we should be richly entertained this season. COYMR[/p][/quote]Only if Smithy & Wilma show they can hit the onion bag- yes for the former no chance for the latter! The Jockster
  • Score: 0

5:32pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Oxon-Red says...

The Jockster wrote:
Oxon-Red wrote:
The Jockster wrote:
Oxon 26 attempts on goal only 7 on target just shows up our poor finishing IMO.
Possibly but your reply illustrates the whole Happy Clapper/Doomster saga.

You have concentrated on the number on target and not looked at the positive that we found ourselves in the position to have a strike on goal. Roughly once every 3 minutes.

It was disappointing not to score but if we continue to create that many chances we should be richly entertained this season.

COYMR
Only if Smithy & Wilma show they can hit the onion bag- yes for the former no chance for the latter!
A positive and a negative, still negative !

Try two negatives and we might find a positive :-)

COYMR
[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: Oxon 26 attempts on goal only 7 on target just shows up our poor finishing IMO.[/p][/quote]Possibly but your reply illustrates the whole Happy Clapper/Doomster saga. You have concentrated on the number on target and not looked at the positive that we found ourselves in the position to have a strike on goal. Roughly once every 3 minutes. It was disappointing not to score but if we continue to create that many chances we should be richly entertained this season. COYMR[/p][/quote]Only if Smithy & Wilma show they can hit the onion bag- yes for the former no chance for the latter![/p][/quote]A positive and a negative, still negative ! Try two negatives and we might find a positive :-) COYMR Oxon-Red
  • Score: 0

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