Council consultants’ payments defended

This Is Wiltshire: Council leader David Renard Council leader David Renard

COUNCIL leaders have strongly defended the amount spent on consultants in the past year, saying it’s money important to the town’s development.

In the past year £2.8m has been spent, with the bulk of the cash going on roads and other infrastructure schemes, such as Wichelstowe.

However, this has drawn criticism from the opposition, who feel the money, up by almost £1m on the previous year, could be better spent on key services.

The cash covers a wide range of projects with specialist engineers the Halcrow Group, which provides support on road projects.

It received just over £1.5m over the course of the year, with much of it going towards road safety.

Council leader David Renard says the services which are provided by the consultants are key and many cannot be done in-house.

He said: “This money goes on key projects and key investments such as roads. I’m not sure what Labour want us to do.

“Are they saying we should not invest in the town or in road safety? About £300,000 has been used on the Wichelstowe project, which is a drop, given the potential £40m-plus implications for the council.

“There is more to running a unitary authority delivering hundreds of different, specialised services to 209,000 people than just cutting and pasting from a spreadsheet.”

The Labour group believes instead of making council staff redundant, which has been done in the past, the money spent on consultants could have been used to keep jobs.

Labour group leader Coun Jim Grant (Lab, Rodbourne Cheney) said: “Frankly, I think it’s a slap in the face to many hardworking council staff who have either lost their jobs or who will be transferred to another employer, in seeing the Conservative-controlled council ramp up the amount they spend on consultants.

“By using this £2.8m to retain the staff we’ve got, around 100 council officers’ jobs could be retained by the council. “These members of staff could be used to fix Swindon’s potholes, tidy up Swindon’s streets and look after our elderly.

“I believe Swindon should follow the lead of other Labour-controlled councils like in Slough, where they have managed to significantly reduce the number of compulsory staff redundancies and frozen the council-tax, through taking measures like significantly cutting back on consultants and senior management.”

Comments (33)

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7:19am Fri 28 Feb 14

LordAshOfTheBrake says...

I think I'd like to see more detail on what this road safety consultation is actually delivering. If it is simply providing advice on where to put safety barriers and the like then anyone with common sense can do that.....(probably why the council needs external consultants).....! :)
I think I'd like to see more detail on what this road safety consultation is actually delivering. If it is simply providing advice on where to put safety barriers and the like then anyone with common sense can do that.....(probably why the council needs external consultants).....! :) LordAshOfTheBrake
  • Score: 9

8:06am Fri 28 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

It does beg the question of what exactly we pay our highly paid Council managers and officers for if they need to then get consultants in so often? If they don't have the right people in the right jobs, maybe that is where they should be looking to change instead of constantly covering it up with expensive outside consultants.
It does beg the question of what exactly we pay our highly paid Council managers and officers for if they need to then get consultants in so often? If they don't have the right people in the right jobs, maybe that is where they should be looking to change instead of constantly covering it up with expensive outside consultants. house on the hill
  • Score: 18

8:14am Fri 28 Feb 14

StillPav says...

house on the hill wrote:
It does beg the question of what exactly we pay our highly paid Council managers and officers for if they need to then get consultants in so often? If they don't have the right people in the right jobs, maybe that is where they should be looking to change instead of constantly covering it up with expensive outside consultants.
The alternative to consultants is to actually employ highly skilled technical specialists on a full time basis. I don't think the council can justify that.

Compare the cost of consultants who are brought in to conduct a specialist activity of a specific project, with something like Forward Swindon, which has received millions of pounds in council funds over the last five years or so in order to employee permanent staff, despite the economic downturn.

The activities conducted by Forward Swindon could have been carried out, when needed, by consultants and at a vastly reduced costs, as they would not have been retained on a full time basis.
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: It does beg the question of what exactly we pay our highly paid Council managers and officers for if they need to then get consultants in so often? If they don't have the right people in the right jobs, maybe that is where they should be looking to change instead of constantly covering it up with expensive outside consultants.[/p][/quote]The alternative to consultants is to actually employ highly skilled technical specialists on a full time basis. I don't think the council can justify that. Compare the cost of consultants who are brought in to conduct a specialist activity of a specific project, with something like Forward Swindon, which has received millions of pounds in council funds over the last five years or so in order to employee permanent staff, despite the economic downturn. The activities conducted by Forward Swindon could have been carried out, when needed, by consultants and at a vastly reduced costs, as they would not have been retained on a full time basis. StillPav
  • Score: 4

8:22am Fri 28 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

StillPav wrote:
house on the hill wrote:
It does beg the question of what exactly we pay our highly paid Council managers and officers for if they need to then get consultants in so often? If they don't have the right people in the right jobs, maybe that is where they should be looking to change instead of constantly covering it up with expensive outside consultants.
The alternative to consultants is to actually employ highly skilled technical specialists on a full time basis. I don't think the council can justify that.

Compare the cost of consultants who are brought in to conduct a specialist activity of a specific project, with something like Forward Swindon, which has received millions of pounds in council funds over the last five years or so in order to employee permanent staff, despite the economic downturn.

The activities conducted by Forward Swindon could have been carried out, when needed, by consultants and at a vastly reduced costs, as they would not have been retained on a full time basis.
There just seems to be rather a lot of them that's all. I am aware all companies need them from time to time but they seem to have more than most and sometimes for things you really think they should know about.
[quote][p][bold]StillPav[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: It does beg the question of what exactly we pay our highly paid Council managers and officers for if they need to then get consultants in so often? If they don't have the right people in the right jobs, maybe that is where they should be looking to change instead of constantly covering it up with expensive outside consultants.[/p][/quote]The alternative to consultants is to actually employ highly skilled technical specialists on a full time basis. I don't think the council can justify that. Compare the cost of consultants who are brought in to conduct a specialist activity of a specific project, with something like Forward Swindon, which has received millions of pounds in council funds over the last five years or so in order to employee permanent staff, despite the economic downturn. The activities conducted by Forward Swindon could have been carried out, when needed, by consultants and at a vastly reduced costs, as they would not have been retained on a full time basis.[/p][/quote]There just seems to be rather a lot of them that's all. I am aware all companies need them from time to time but they seem to have more than most and sometimes for things you really think they should know about. house on the hill
  • Score: 6

9:15am Fri 28 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions.

Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course).

As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector?
It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions. Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course). As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector? ChannelX
  • Score: -2

9:18am Fri 28 Feb 14

Morsey says...

Ian Dury ... "What A Waste" ... this is a joke, have they forgotten the hard working population who have contributed to the Council coffers to enable such frivolous financial gifts to the likes of Halcrow? Just because they are local and 'well in' with this Council doesn't make them the best deal every time surely?

Worse than the poor management of the banking industry, that's a lot of money!
Ian Dury ... "What A Waste" ... this is a joke, have they forgotten the hard working population who have contributed to the Council coffers to enable such frivolous financial gifts to the likes of Halcrow? Just because they are local and 'well in' with this Council doesn't make them the best deal every time surely? Worse than the poor management of the banking industry, that's a lot of money! Morsey
  • Score: 0

9:45am Fri 28 Feb 14

Davey Gravey says...

Jobs for the boys. Street cleaners, refuse collectors, grass cutters sacked. Vote Tory, hooraa
Jobs for the boys. Street cleaners, refuse collectors, grass cutters sacked. Vote Tory, hooraa Davey Gravey
  • Score: 2

9:56am Fri 28 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
Jobs for the boys. Street cleaners, refuse collectors, grass cutters sacked. Vote Tory, hooraa
And what would you call it when Labour get into office and hire 800,000 public sector workers?
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: Jobs for the boys. Street cleaners, refuse collectors, grass cutters sacked. Vote Tory, hooraa[/p][/quote]And what would you call it when Labour get into office and hire 800,000 public sector workers? ChannelX
  • Score: 5

9:57am Fri 28 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

Morsey wrote:
Ian Dury ... "What A Waste" ... this is a joke, have they forgotten the hard working population who have contributed to the Council coffers to enable such frivolous financial gifts to the likes of Halcrow? Just because they are local and 'well in' with this Council doesn't make them the best deal every time surely?

Worse than the poor management of the banking industry, that's a lot of money!
Are you suggesting that the only people who work 'hard' are the people you feel fit the Labour party's definition of public sector, unskilled labourers?

In fact, do you believe that anyone who doesn't vote Labour is a hard worker?
[quote][p][bold]Morsey[/bold] wrote: Ian Dury ... "What A Waste" ... this is a joke, have they forgotten the hard working population who have contributed to the Council coffers to enable such frivolous financial gifts to the likes of Halcrow? Just because they are local and 'well in' with this Council doesn't make them the best deal every time surely? Worse than the poor management of the banking industry, that's a lot of money![/p][/quote]Are you suggesting that the only people who work 'hard' are the people you feel fit the Labour party's definition of public sector, unskilled labourers? In fact, do you believe that anyone who doesn't vote Labour is a hard worker? ChannelX
  • Score: -1

10:53am Fri 28 Feb 14

villageoldman says...

Same consultants that said the Front Garden , now that's a good idea!
Same consultants that said the Front Garden , now that's a good idea! villageoldman
  • Score: 0

10:58am Fri 28 Feb 14

trolley dolley says...

As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for. trolley dolley
  • Score: 1

11:09am Fri 28 Feb 14

trustnopolitician says...

THese costs should be paid for by the developers where it involves new infrastructure e g e Wichelstowe. Wouldnt it be good idea to get rid of ALL the highly paid Officers (say over £100,000) and bring in a consultant with specialist skills. to work a couple of days a week.

Hopefully in May we can rid the council of many of the councillor clowns who, incidentally cost nearly £3/4 million and rising.
THese costs should be paid for by the developers where it involves new infrastructure e g e Wichelstowe. Wouldnt it be good idea to get rid of ALL the highly paid Officers (say over £100,000) and bring in a consultant with specialist skills. to work a couple of days a week. Hopefully in May we can rid the council of many of the councillor clowns who, incidentally cost nearly £3/4 million and rising. trustnopolitician
  • Score: 8

11:19am Fri 28 Feb 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

Wouldn't be so bad if it was obvious exactly what these consultants had done that has actually benefited the town.

Roads in Wichelstowe - shouldn't the developer have been taking care of that as part of their planning permission?

As for other roads - has there actually been any new infrastructure built to benefit Swindon in the last 5 years even. Can anyone name anything?
Wouldn't be so bad if it was obvious exactly what these consultants had done that has actually benefited the town. Roads in Wichelstowe - shouldn't the developer have been taking care of that as part of their planning permission? As for other roads - has there actually been any new infrastructure built to benefit Swindon in the last 5 years even. Can anyone name anything? The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 11

11:21am Fri 28 Feb 14

The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man says...

trustnopolitician wrote:
THese costs should be paid for by the developers where it involves new infrastructure e g e Wichelstowe. Wouldnt it be good idea to get rid of ALL the highly paid Officers (say over £100,000) and bring in a consultant with specialist skills. to work a couple of days a week.

Hopefully in May we can rid the council of many of the councillor clowns who, incidentally cost nearly £3/4 million and rising.
If you vote every single "councillor clown" out, they'll be replaced by another set of "councillor clowns" who will cost exactly the same amount.
[quote][p][bold]trustnopolitician[/bold] wrote: THese costs should be paid for by the developers where it involves new infrastructure e g e Wichelstowe. Wouldnt it be good idea to get rid of ALL the highly paid Officers (say over £100,000) and bring in a consultant with specialist skills. to work a couple of days a week. Hopefully in May we can rid the council of many of the councillor clowns who, incidentally cost nearly £3/4 million and rising.[/p][/quote]If you vote every single "councillor clown" out, they'll be replaced by another set of "councillor clowns" who will cost exactly the same amount. The Artist formally known as Grumpy Old Man
  • Score: 6

12:36pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

As mentioned above it would be really useful to see a breakdown of what the benefits of using consultants and what they actually advised?
Is it a case of put lights at y and crossings at x surely our experienced team at SBC etc know how these things work?
£2.8M to correct problems and foresee problems seems like a good thing (as long as that is happening) accountability and transparent reports more importantly receipts will easily resolve this issue.
As mentioned above it would be really useful to see a breakdown of what the benefits of using consultants and what they actually advised? Is it a case of put lights at y and crossings at x surely our experienced team at SBC etc know how these things work? £2.8M to correct problems and foresee problems seems like a good thing (as long as that is happening) accountability and transparent reports more importantly receipts will easily resolve this issue. Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: -2

12:47pm Fri 28 Feb 14

1 2 Could B says...

trolley dolley wrote:
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.
ChannelX says....
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.


As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter.

This is not the case at all
[quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/p][/quote]ChannelX says.... [quote]As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/quote] As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter. This is not the case at all 1 2 Could B
  • Score: 3

1:58pm Fri 28 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

1 2 Could B wrote:
trolley dolley wrote:
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.
ChannelX says....
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.


As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter.

This is not the case at all
Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users?
[quote][p][bold]1 2 Could B[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/p][/quote]ChannelX says.... [quote]As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/quote] As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter. This is not the case at all[/p][/quote]Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users? ChannelX
  • Score: -3

2:09pm Fri 28 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

ChannelX wrote:
It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions.

Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course).

As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector?
I actually don't have a "party" if that was aimed at me. They all as sh1te as each other in my opinion. And the argument is if they employed better people at the council they wouldnt need so many consultants which seemed a common sense argument to me.
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions. Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course). As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector?[/p][/quote]I actually don't have a "party" if that was aimed at me. They all as sh1te as each other in my opinion. And the argument is if they employed better people at the council they wouldnt need so many consultants which seemed a common sense argument to me. house on the hill
  • Score: 7

2:15pm Fri 28 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

trolley dolley wrote:
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.
Taking the politics out of that, yes totally agree.
[quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/p][/quote]Taking the politics out of that, yes totally agree. house on the hill
  • Score: 2

2:46pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

ChannelX wrote:
1 2 Could B wrote:
trolley dolley wrote:
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.
ChannelX says....
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.


As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter.

This is not the case at all
Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users?
Any actual opinion on the topic?
There has been a number of crashes into the same house in Swindon (trying to find story source) would be interesting to see if a consultant is used in this?
As with so many topics where people feel aggrieved with gov / council we dont know what they are paid for some responsibility and transparency would go along way.
Or is that too simple a solution?
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]1 2 Could B[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/p][/quote]ChannelX says.... [quote]As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/quote] As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter. This is not the case at all[/p][/quote]Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users?[/p][/quote]Any actual opinion on the topic? There has been a number of crashes into the same house in Swindon (trying to find story source) would be interesting to see if a consultant is used in this? As with so many topics where people feel aggrieved with gov / council we dont know what they are paid for some responsibility and transparency would go along way. Or is that too simple a solution? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 3

3:06pm Fri 28 Feb 14

ChannelX says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
ChannelX wrote:
1 2 Could B wrote:
trolley dolley wrote:
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.
ChannelX says....
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.


As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter.

This is not the case at all
Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users?
Any actual opinion on the topic?
There has been a number of crashes into the same house in Swindon (trying to find story source) would be interesting to see if a consultant is used in this?
As with so many topics where people feel aggrieved with gov / council we dont know what they are paid for some responsibility and transparency would go along way.
Or is that too simple a solution?
Yes, I gave my opinion on the topic quite some time before you did. You must have missed it.
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]1 2 Could B[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/p][/quote]ChannelX says.... [quote]As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/quote] As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter. This is not the case at all[/p][/quote]Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users?[/p][/quote]Any actual opinion on the topic? There has been a number of crashes into the same house in Swindon (trying to find story source) would be interesting to see if a consultant is used in this? As with so many topics where people feel aggrieved with gov / council we dont know what they are paid for some responsibility and transparency would go along way. Or is that too simple a solution?[/p][/quote]Yes, I gave my opinion on the topic quite some time before you did. You must have missed it. ChannelX
  • Score: -3

3:56pm Fri 28 Feb 14

candid friend says...

I believe the former leader had ambitions to be a consultant, and was intending to offer his expertise in Wi-Fi systems to other councils.
Given the losses suffered by the ratepayers here, he will not have had many clients.
Wasn't Rikki Hunt a consultant to the Council advising on strategy and mentoring and selecting senior officers. he is bankrupt now-what else would you expect.
It is to be hoped that the Council will be more discriminating in the future when looking for advice.
Their track record is not to be emulated.
I believe the former leader had ambitions to be a consultant, and was intending to offer his expertise in Wi-Fi systems to other councils. Given the losses suffered by the ratepayers here, he will not have had many clients. Wasn't Rikki Hunt a consultant to the Council advising on strategy and mentoring and selecting senior officers. he is bankrupt now-what else would you expect. It is to be hoped that the Council will be more discriminating in the future when looking for advice. Their track record is not to be emulated. candid friend
  • Score: 11

4:14pm Fri 28 Feb 14

twasadawf says...

I am in the process of setting up a consultancy if the council need any info ,my rates are conducive to the amounts the council are willing to pay, so look forward to a healthy bank balance in the near future ,no need to take any advice i offer just hand over the money
I am in the process of setting up a consultancy if the council need any info ,my rates are conducive to the amounts the council are willing to pay, so look forward to a healthy bank balance in the near future ,no need to take any advice i offer just hand over the money twasadawf
  • Score: 5

4:28pm Fri 28 Feb 14

LordAshOfTheBrake says...

ChannelX wrote:
It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions.

Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course).

As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector?
Not at all.

What it means is that perhaps the council people are not up to the job they are employed to do and because they are not up to it they call in the consultants, rather than getting pulled up for not being capable of the job they are employed to do....!
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions. Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course). As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector?[/p][/quote]Not at all. What it means is that perhaps the council people are not up to the job they are employed to do and because they are not up to it they call in the consultants, rather than getting pulled up for not being capable of the job they are employed to do....! LordAshOfTheBrake
  • Score: 10

4:42pm Fri 28 Feb 14

house on the hill says...

LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
ChannelX wrote:
It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions.

Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course).

As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector?
Not at all.

What it means is that perhaps the council people are not up to the job they are employed to do and because they are not up to it they call in the consultants, rather than getting pulled up for not being capable of the job they are employed to do....!
Spot on again
[quote][p][bold]LordAshOfTheBrake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions. Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course). As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector?[/p][/quote]Not at all. What it means is that perhaps the council people are not up to the job they are employed to do and because they are not up to it they call in the consultants, rather than getting pulled up for not being capable of the job they are employed to do....![/p][/quote]Spot on again house on the hill
  • Score: 4

5:17pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

ChannelX wrote:
Badgersgetabadname wrote:
ChannelX wrote:
1 2 Could B wrote:
trolley dolley wrote:
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.
ChannelX says....
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.


As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter.

This is not the case at all
Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users?
Any actual opinion on the topic?
There has been a number of crashes into the same house in Swindon (trying to find story source) would be interesting to see if a consultant is used in this?
As with so many topics where people feel aggrieved with gov / council we dont know what they are paid for some responsibility and transparency would go along way.
Or is that too simple a solution?
Yes, I gave my opinion on the topic quite some time before you did. You must have missed it.
?where just the same anti everything drivel?
You made a comment based on another comment not the topic in question?
Does when the time the "comment" is made have any relevance?
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]1 2 Could B[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/p][/quote]ChannelX says.... [quote]As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/quote] As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter. This is not the case at all[/p][/quote]Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users?[/p][/quote]Any actual opinion on the topic? There has been a number of crashes into the same house in Swindon (trying to find story source) would be interesting to see if a consultant is used in this? As with so many topics where people feel aggrieved with gov / council we dont know what they are paid for some responsibility and transparency would go along way. Or is that too simple a solution?[/p][/quote]Yes, I gave my opinion on the topic quite some time before you did. You must have missed it.[/p][/quote]?where just the same anti everything drivel? You made a comment based on another comment not the topic in question? Does when the time the "comment" is made have any relevance? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 2

5:31pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

house on the hill wrote:
LordAshOfTheBrake wrote:
ChannelX wrote:
It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions.

Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course).

As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector?
Not at all.

What it means is that perhaps the council people are not up to the job they are employed to do and because they are not up to it they call in the consultants, rather than getting pulled up for not being capable of the job they are employed to do....!
Spot on again
Completely agree.
Are consultants called in for some sections more than others, surely an investigation into how £2.8M is spent is worthwhile?
[quote][p][bold]house on the hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LordAshOfTheBrake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: It's a bit odd... the same people who lambast the council for being made up of non-trained, non-specialised individuals who can't make educated decisions are the same people who lambast the council for paying trained, specialised individuals who can make educated decisions. Some might say that's because some people like to criticise the council whatever they do (until the party they support are in the majority, of course). As ever, Jim Grant's comments are all very worthy, in a 1975 style, but are obvious nonsense. Paying even more people to pick up litter is all well and good, but it doesn't really get anything done. And, in any case, if you give them the money instead then all the people employed as consultants end up unemployed - or doesn't he care about them as their demographic is less likely to vote for him than an unskilled labourer who works for the public sector?[/p][/quote]Not at all. What it means is that perhaps the council people are not up to the job they are employed to do and because they are not up to it they call in the consultants, rather than getting pulled up for not being capable of the job they are employed to do....![/p][/quote]Spot on again[/p][/quote]Completely agree. Are consultants called in for some sections more than others, surely an investigation into how £2.8M is spent is worthwhile? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 3

6:25pm Fri 28 Feb 14

beach1e says...

i always thought the developers funded infrastructure and you would think with the high demand of building these ghettos in Swindon, the prices the developers would pay would be high...so what is going on ? is someone on the council pocketing a huge amount of payback?
i always thought the developers funded infrastructure and you would think with the high demand of building these ghettos in Swindon, the prices the developers would pay would be high...so what is going on ? is someone on the council pocketing a huge amount of payback? beach1e
  • Score: 6

7:00pm Fri 28 Feb 14

LordAshOfTheBrake says...

candid friend wrote:
I believe the former leader had ambitions to be a consultant, and was intending to offer his expertise in Wi-Fi systems to other councils.
Given the losses suffered by the ratepayers here, he will not have had many clients.
Wasn't Rikki Hunt a consultant to the Council advising on strategy and mentoring and selecting senior officers. he is bankrupt now-what else would you expect.
It is to be hoped that the Council will be more discriminating in the future when looking for advice.
Their track record is not to be emulated.
Along with his design for schools (Croft) that he was so insistent on as they saved so much time and money, which incidentally even his own council is not using for the new primary schools in the area.
[quote][p][bold]candid friend[/bold] wrote: I believe the former leader had ambitions to be a consultant, and was intending to offer his expertise in Wi-Fi systems to other councils. Given the losses suffered by the ratepayers here, he will not have had many clients. Wasn't Rikki Hunt a consultant to the Council advising on strategy and mentoring and selecting senior officers. he is bankrupt now-what else would you expect. It is to be hoped that the Council will be more discriminating in the future when looking for advice. Their track record is not to be emulated.[/p][/quote]Along with his design for schools (Croft) that he was so insistent on as they saved so much time and money, which incidentally even his own council is not using for the new primary schools in the area. LordAshOfTheBrake
  • Score: 4

9:33am Sun 2 Mar 14

ChannelX says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
ChannelX wrote:
Badgersgetabadname wrote:
ChannelX wrote:
1 2 Could B wrote:
trolley dolley wrote:
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.
ChannelX says....
As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services.

With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.


As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter.

This is not the case at all
Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users?
Any actual opinion on the topic?
There has been a number of crashes into the same house in Swindon (trying to find story source) would be interesting to see if a consultant is used in this?
As with so many topics where people feel aggrieved with gov / council we dont know what they are paid for some responsibility and transparency would go along way.
Or is that too simple a solution?
Yes, I gave my opinion on the topic quite some time before you did. You must have missed it.
?where just the same anti everything drivel?
You made a comment based on another comment not the topic in question?
Does when the time the "comment" is made have any relevance?
Hopefully you have some idea of what you're talking about.
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]1 2 Could B[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]trolley dolley[/bold] wrote: As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/p][/quote]ChannelX says.... [quote]As usual the Leader of the Labour group only talks about jobs and not about services. With the right people a lot more could be done for a lot less but that would be against everything Labour stand for.[/quote] As usual, you're assuming that everyone who is dissatisfied wit SBC must be a Labour supporter. This is not the case at all[/p][/quote]Why have you gone out of your way to attribute the same quote to two different people? Is it part of your usual methodoloy of goading and bullying other site users?[/p][/quote]Any actual opinion on the topic? There has been a number of crashes into the same house in Swindon (trying to find story source) would be interesting to see if a consultant is used in this? As with so many topics where people feel aggrieved with gov / council we dont know what they are paid for some responsibility and transparency would go along way. Or is that too simple a solution?[/p][/quote]Yes, I gave my opinion on the topic quite some time before you did. You must have missed it.[/p][/quote]?where just the same anti everything drivel? You made a comment based on another comment not the topic in question? Does when the time the "comment" is made have any relevance?[/p][/quote]Hopefully you have some idea of what you're talking about. ChannelX
  • Score: 1

12:15pm Sun 2 Mar 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

Have a look at the thread, with the exception of your comments its almost all on topic with different opinions discussed in a normal way on a subject that effects everyone in the town.
No one else has a problem with how I have written any comments only you, maybe a larger type font that you can see?
Do you have an opinion on the subject or are you just ranting again until matron brings your meds?
Moron
Have a look at the thread, with the exception of your comments its almost all on topic with different opinions discussed in a normal way on a subject that effects everyone in the town. No one else has a problem with how I have written any comments only you, maybe a larger type font that you can see? Do you have an opinion on the subject or are you just ranting again until matron brings your meds? Moron Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: -2

7:27am Mon 3 Mar 14

ChannelX says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
Have a look at the thread, with the exception of your comments its almost all on topic with different opinions discussed in a normal way on a subject that effects everyone in the town.
No one else has a problem with how I have written any comments only you, maybe a larger type font that you can see?
Do you have an opinion on the subject or are you just ranting again until matron brings your meds?
Moron
Interesting. You make fun of 'bringing the meds' and yet, on another thread, it would appear that you actually do have mental health issues yourself.

Very strange.

The only reason I have a 'problem' with your posts is that they're incoherent nonsense for much of the time. The 'problem' arises in trying to make any sense of what you're trying to get across.
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: Have a look at the thread, with the exception of your comments its almost all on topic with different opinions discussed in a normal way on a subject that effects everyone in the town. No one else has a problem with how I have written any comments only you, maybe a larger type font that you can see? Do you have an opinion on the subject or are you just ranting again until matron brings your meds? Moron[/p][/quote]Interesting. You make fun of 'bringing the meds' and yet, on another thread, it would appear that you actually do have mental health issues yourself. Very strange. The only reason I have a 'problem' with your posts is that they're incoherent nonsense for much of the time. The 'problem' arises in trying to make any sense of what you're trying to get across. ChannelX
  • Score: 0

11:28am Mon 3 Mar 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

ChannelX wrote:
Badgersgetabadname wrote:
Have a look at the thread, with the exception of your comments its almost all on topic with different opinions discussed in a normal way on a subject that effects everyone in the town.
No one else has a problem with how I have written any comments only you, maybe a larger type font that you can see?
Do you have an opinion on the subject or are you just ranting again until matron brings your meds?
Moron
Interesting. You make fun of 'bringing the meds' and yet, on another thread, it would appear that you actually do have mental health issues yourself.

Very strange.

The only reason I have a 'problem' with your posts is that they're incoherent nonsense for much of the time. The 'problem' arises in trying to make any sense of what you're trying to get across.
Again you are the only one, you are special bless x
I have different opinions on various topics this is what normal people do rather than being fed the right wing rhetoric you spout daily.
Are you saying that I should only have one opinion?
Its not interesting you have stated it whatever that is again you give no reference to you statement.
The reason I comment on other topics is because I have either an interest or studied other topics I am sure it is nothing compared to your yaaaawn "life experience" but based on learning from various points of view arriving at what I view as my opinion.
You have made 5 comments on this thread not one on the topic. What does my mental health matter? Are you saying this makes my opinion less valid?
You are the only person that has trouble reading my comments so is the fault mine or yours? Ask matron to update your eye test.
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: Have a look at the thread, with the exception of your comments its almost all on topic with different opinions discussed in a normal way on a subject that effects everyone in the town. No one else has a problem with how I have written any comments only you, maybe a larger type font that you can see? Do you have an opinion on the subject or are you just ranting again until matron brings your meds? Moron[/p][/quote]Interesting. You make fun of 'bringing the meds' and yet, on another thread, it would appear that you actually do have mental health issues yourself. Very strange. The only reason I have a 'problem' with your posts is that they're incoherent nonsense for much of the time. The 'problem' arises in trying to make any sense of what you're trying to get across.[/p][/quote]Again you are the only one, you are special bless x I have different opinions on various topics this is what normal people do rather than being fed the right wing rhetoric you spout daily. Are you saying that I should only have one opinion? Its not interesting you have stated it whatever that is again you give no reference to you statement. The reason I comment on other topics is because I have either an interest or studied other topics I am sure it is nothing compared to your yaaaawn "life experience" but based on learning from various points of view arriving at what I view as my opinion. You have made 5 comments on this thread not one on the topic. What does my mental health matter? Are you saying this makes my opinion less valid? You are the only person that has trouble reading my comments so is the fault mine or yours? Ask matron to update your eye test. Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 1

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